Seeing when a horse is using itself correctly

[Hana23]

It seems like others can tell quite easily just by looking when a horse is moving correctly, ie lifting its back, engaging its hindquarters and core, but I often struggle to see the difference between a horse that's using itself correctly and one that isn't. Especially if it's a bit bum high or built downhill I can't see the lifted back that people talk about at all.

Is there anything in particular that you look for to determine how correctly the horse is moving or is it just immediately obvious? Obviously its easier to feel than to see but I'd like to be able to train my eye as well.

 

[LEC]

Watch lots and lots of videos - start with Tara on You Tube which will tell you 100% when a horse is not using itself and is wonky as her riding and horse care is diabolical.
It’s just experience. Some of its subtle and some of its obvious. I would also read the BD handbook as has really good guidance for what is correct and how it should look.

 

[j1ffy]

As LEC says - keep watching and assessing, you'll soon pick it up. I find it can help to look just behind the saddle - is there a dip downwards or a smooth working muscle? Then the obvious things such as are the hind legs stepping under or out behind? Is the shoulder moving freely or is it loaded (and therefore the horse is on the forehand)?

LEC has a very good YouTube herself which is worth following I would watch out for some of the more militant classical dressage types as often they are focused too much on the front end and not on the back end.

Watch lots and lots of videos - start with Tara on You Tube which will tell you 100% when a horse is not using itself and is wonky as her riding and horse care is diabolical.
It’s just experience. Some of its subtle and some of its obvious. I would also read the BD handbook as has really good guidance for what is correct and how it should look.

I've just looked her up and realised it's the same person Heather Moffett posted about (very negatively) a few weeks ago. I can't watch more than a minute, it's horrendous. Why would she post such mediocre and potentially damaging training?!

 

[paddi22]

did the poster mean Tara Young

instead of Tara

who seems to be a total loon?

 

[ycbm]

You will be in very good company if you can't spot when a horse is using itself properly. Obviously wrong is easy. I think it's a real skill, difficult to spot minor things that can be from, or cause, major issues and I certainly wouldn't claim I've cracked it yet after 45 years.

A couple of the things I look for is footprints to show an equal stride on each side and for the shape of the neck as it rises in front of the withers to be an upward curve.
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[dottylottie]

most likely case is that many of the people you’ve seen who think they can tell, actually just see a horse with its head down and assumes it’s working correctly!

 

[Palindrome]

When a horse is working through, the hindlegs step in the front legs hoof prints, I think it's said that the horse is "tracking up" (can also overtrack if a big moover).

 

[ycbm]

When a horse is working through, the hindlegs step in the front legs hoof prints, I think it's said that the horse is "tracking up" (can also overtrack if a big moover).

Really good movers will over track. The hind foot may land a long way in front of the front foot hoofprint.

But so will horses that are actually bilaterally lame and short striding in front.

 

[Hana23]

Watch lots and lots of videos - start with Tara on You Tube which will tell you 100% when a horse is not using itself and is wonky as her riding and horse care is diabolical.
It’s just experience. Some of its subtle and some of its obvious. I would also read the BD handbook as has really good guidance for what is correct and how it should look.

Definitely going to be watching lots of videos since I can't ride for a while. I can see the obvious cases when a horse is very hollow and shuffling along behind etc but if its in an outline and tracking up it gets a bit unclear to me

 

[Hana23]

Really good movers will over track. The hind foot may land a long way in front of the front foot hoofprint.

But so will horses that are actually bilaterally lame and short striding in front.

I loaned an Arab x many years ago that always tracked up thanks to his build (short back and big range of motion) but I had no clue what I was doing so I'm certain he was going terribly most of the time

 

[Hana23]

most likely case is that many of the people you’ve seen who think they can tell, actually just see a horse with its head down and assumes it’s working correctly!

What actually made me wonder about this was seeing all the comments on the recent Dressage World Cup on YouTube, with everyone seeming to have a different idea of whether a horse is going awfully or going wonderfully and since I don't know any better I'm never sure what to believe!

 

[Hana23]

As LEC says - keep watching and assessing, you'll soon pick it up. I find it can help to look just behind the saddle - is there a dip downwards or a smooth working muscle? Then the obvious things such as are the hind legs stepping under or out behind? Is the shoulder moving freely or is it loaded (and therefore the horse is on the forehand)?

LEC has a very good YouTube herself which is worth following I would watch out for some of the more militant classical dressage types as often they are focused too much on the front end and not on the back end.



I've just looked her up and realised it's the same person Heather Moffett posted about (very negatively) a few weeks ago. I can't watch more than a minute, it's horrendous. Why would she post such mediocre and potentially damaging training?!

I don't think I can see the difference between a loaded shoulder and a freely moving shoulder, or at least I wouldn't know what to look for, but I can generally see if it's stepping under or not. I like to watch my own riding videos back and trying to determine if there's actually anything correct happening there but I can only assume not!

 

[LEC]

Start with GP dressage as sometimes very obvious. Edward Gal is a good/bad one to start watching with Undercover.

he looks like a pantomime horse - two separate horses

Then compare to Valegro

Eventers are useful to watch as quite wide ranging and fit so often have tension which then marr their tests a lot.

 

[MidlandsGirl]

did the poster mean Tara Young

instead of Tara

who seems to be a total loon?

Agreed! Tara should have all horses removed from her. Has anyone, other than her, ridden the dun horse, Bella? Tara rides like a novice rider and it would be interesting to see if the horse is less anxious and tense with a pro rider on.

 

[sbloom]

I realise it's an old post but...

Really good movers will over track. The hind foot may land a long way in front of the front foot hoofprint.

But so will horses that are actually bilaterally lame and short striding in front.

As do some horses that are on the forehand or, as I prefer to say, "falling forwards". The front foot is still grounded way back under the rider so the hind leg appears to step further.

equitopiacenter.com has some great resources, I think there are Sue Dyson videos on there for spotting low level lameness, and plenty to assess horses statitically which can be much more useful than you'd imagine. The Equine Documentalist has some good webinars, and I'd suggest looking at the FB feeds of Annie Dillon, Patrick King, Amy Skinner and Mills Consilient Horsemanship (all called ...Horsemanship) as well as Yasmin Stuart who has some good content and paid courses.

 

[angel7]

Urgh, cannot bare watching Tara ride Bella, the horse is so uncomfortable ALL THE TIME. She cannot stand still(would drive me potty). Not convinced the saddle fits.
There must be something not right and she constantly hangs off the mouth and drops her hands.
And the comments from those who watch her vids, I want to scream at them.

 

[Boulty]

I find I can spot things on videos (although not as much as posters like sbloom & ycbm) & I can sometimes spot things if I watch someone in person for long enough.

I can spot “wrongness” & changes in posture but I can’t always then explain or work out where exactly they might be coming from.

What I really struggle with is spotting in real time what I need to ask the horse in front of me to change in order to move better whilst working on the ground with them. (My brain just struggles to concentrate on me keeping my balance/ not tripping over my own feet, not dropping either stick or rope, giving signals to horse & processing small, subtle things the horse might be doing).

This is frustrating as the hairy yak is a master in pretending to MOSTLY but not quite do the right thing. He can track up, have a vaguely appropriate looking head / neck position and appear to be moving forward whilst not really engaging his core or using his back correctly. He can walk over poles in all kinds of “wrong” ways.

I try to use professionals whose eye for such things is vastly superior to my own and get them to explain what they see to me but don’t think I’ll ever be great at seeing tiny things in real life

 

[sbloom]

I think we underestimate how many horses we need to see, work with, learn from in order to learn all this stuff. It's more like decades than years, but we can keep making progress. The Slow Walk Work group on FB, and her paid courses (we all need to make a living!), have good info in too, as well as the resources I posed above.