Seizures in horses

[Bonnie Allie]

Our 22 year old mare had a seizure today that lasted about a minute. She then went back to normal immediately after as if nothing had happened. Called vet who said this is very rare in horses.

She is booked in tomorrow for a full examination but wondering if anyone else has experience with seizures.

She is retired, does not have PPID or EMS. Recently had a mechanical laminitis episode which she has fully recovered from. Eats, drinks as normal and generally lives a charmed life.

 

[Polos Mum]

I have seen it personally in an older small pony. Indeed I think I stopped my friend from being killed as she nearly rushed into the stable as the poor pony was thrashing around. It was a proper collapse onto the floor - eyes rolled back smashing up the stable walls. We saw her have 2 more and think she had more in the field as she'd come in with odd scrape marks on her head.

The vet thought it was linked to cushings (which can cause seizures apparently) and when the ponies weight came down and this was managed (magnesium helped with fat pads ) they stopped, a year after no evidence of seeing one they started riding her again and that was probable 3 years ago now.

Horrible to see, so sorry for that. Take real care around her and tell everyone who might be near her about them so they can keep well out of the way.
Hopefully the vets find something.

 

[southerncomfort]

Yes. Sadly my old mare had full blown seizures. Very traumatic and upsetting to witness.

The vets tried to find the cause but in the end suspected a brain tumour.

I believe liver problems can also cause seizures so well worth having your vet run bloods as a first port of call.

ETA well worth taking video to show your vet if you see it happen again. I took video which my regular vet sent to several senior vets who all agreed that she was definitely having full blown seizures.

 

[Birker2020]

A family friend had this happen to his horse, it started with a seizure and then she started pushing his head against the wall as well as being just zoned out and then becoming recumbent. The vet suspected it was possibly a brain tumour and she was pts.

I am sorry you are going through this but hopefully the vets will come up with something treatable.

 

[Melody Grey]

I second getting bloods to check for kidney/ liver failure.
Epilepsy can be a thing in horses, though would seem unlikely that she’s reached 22 without anyone seeing any evidence, though not impossible.

fingers crossed something treatable is found.

 

[JBM]

My mare had a seizure once
She had something wrong with her liver can’t remember the name on it
She went on a liver flush and ironXcell for awhile
Been perfect since
I’d get bloods done!

 

[SEL]

My friend's pony but it had cushings

 

[JJS]

I’d have her rechecked for PPID. I hope you manage to get to the bottom of what’s causing it!

 

[ponynutz]

Nothing to say but offer some reassurance that none of the replies have had an unhappy ending. Sorry you're going through this, keep yourself safe if it happens again, and hopefully you'll find the cause!

 

[PurBee]

I have seen it personally in an older small pony. Indeed I think I stopped my friend from being killed as she nearly rushed into the stable as the poor pony was thrashing around. It was a proper collapse onto the floor - eyes rolled back smashing up the stable walls. We saw her have 2 more and think she had more in the field as she'd come in with odd scrape marks on her head.

The vet thought it was linked to cushings (which can cause seizures apparently) and when the ponies weight came down and this was managed (magnesium helped with fat pads ) they stopped, a year after no evidence of seeing one they started riding her again and that was probable 3 years ago now.

Horrible to see, so sorry for that. Take real care around her and tell everyone who might be near her about them so they can keep well out of the way.
Hopefully the vets find something.

Funny you should mention magnesium - only today was i reading about tetany in cows, and they describe mag deficiency affecting cows very suddenly (when potassium spikes in grass, due to sharp change in weather usually), that they’re wobbly, then collapse and their head rests on the ground, but theyre eyes are whats called ‘looking at the stars’, presumably rolled-up in the eye socket.

I’ve always thought how tetany in cows is known by every farmer and they have magnesium on hand and licks to ensure it doesnt happen during grazing months, and its puzzled me why the equine world doesnt take this more seriously for grazing horses, during summer grass mag/potassium changes, are surely at greater/equal risk as a cow, especially as they are more active than a cow - hence need even more magnesium?

The description of cow tetany collapse reminded me of a description of a sudden to occur, yet slow movement seizure: not much thrashing, and i wondered if horses get this when grazing changes also? They’re more muscular than the average cow, mag is essential for muscle and neuro relaxation, twitching muscles can be very mild mag deficiency - yet an acute deficiency could possibly present as a seizure, and due to their size being heavier/musclier than a cow, it could be reasoned to present as a more thrashing event.

It’s wise to consider every possibility, yet if the horse isnt on a mag supplement OP, it may be worth discussing with vet if this is a potential cause.
I’ve checked various hays/haylage nutritional reports in the past and the magnesium levels are all dreadfully low, they dont reach anywhere close to dosage a horse needs.
Grazing is generally abysmal for mag levels unless a hay farmer specifically adds cal/mag in spring - but its more expensive than ‘farmers lime’ calcium only…so that is used far more often instead.

 

[scats]

When my elderly mare had liver failure, she had a seizure. She was 27 and was put to sleep not long after, sadly.

 

[Snowfilly]

Only heard of it twice, once in in a Cushings horse which resolved when the meds were upped and once in a lovely youngster who had two fairly close together and then became dangerous and aggressive. He was put down and found to have a brain tumour.

 

[rabatsa]

I’ve always thought how tetany in cows is known by every farmer and they have magnesium on hand and licks to ensure it doesnt happen during grazing months, and its puzzled me why the equine world doesnt take this more seriously for grazing horses, during summer grass mag/potassium changes, are surely at greater/equal risk as a cow, especially as they are more active than a cow - hence need even more magnesium?

Dairy cows are working far harder than the average horse. The UK average is 25kg/day over the complete lactation, many easily do 50kg/day at peak. This means that cows draw a lot of minerals from their body and feed, making the average horses needs nowhere near the same.

Not saying that horses do not need extra magnesium when the grass is really growing, but nowhere near the extent of cattle.

 

[PurBee]

Dairy cows are working far harder than the average horse. The UK average is 25kg/day over the complete lactation, many easily do 50kg/day at peak. This means that cows draw a lot of minerals from their body and feed, making the average horses needs nowhere near the same.

Not saying that horses do not need extra magnesium when the grass is really growing, but nowhere near the extent of cattle.

You make a good point, that reasoning seems logical as cows are either pregnant, lactating for dairy industry, growing young beefstock, or fattening mature beefstock - all requiring the intake of energy to deplete lost lactating or metabolic energy.
Yet i consider horses as far more muscled than either of those groups, and to maintain muscle takes an awful lot of nutrition. I’ve never compared cow energy requirements to horses before but your post had me curious, so thought i’d look to see if there’s much difference, and its quite eye-opening:

“Energy values are based on a megacalorie per kilogram (Mcal/day) intake, and as NEm, and for a 1100 lb cow with a 80 lb calf:

• Lactation: 16 Mcal/day
• Dry, bred, mid-pregnancy: 8.5 Mcal/day
• Dry, bred, late-pregnancy: 11.5 Mcal/day

Energy requirements increase the more a cow weighs. This is based on body size, not body condition. Basically, the bigger the cow, the more energy she needs. On the inverse, the fatter the cow, the less energy she needs.

The next set of energy values (NEm on a Mcal/day) is for growing cattle at a couple different weights.

• Calf at 550 lb at maintenance: 4.84 Mcal/day; at 2.2 lb per day, an additional 3.21 Mcal/day
• Calf at 770 lb at maintenance: 6.23 Mcal/day; at 2.2 lb per day, an additional 4.13 Mcal/day
• Calf at 880 lb at maintenance: 6.89 Mcal/day; at 2.2 lb per day, an additional 4.57 Mcal/day

You will also find that different breeds have different energy requirements. Generally, though, dairy cattle have higher energy requirements than most beef cattle except Simmentals.”

https://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_calories_does_a_cow_eat_in_one_day

HORSE:


Table 1. Energy requirements for maintenance (Mcal/d) based on average activity level.

https://www.infohorse.com/horseenergy.asp


So these rough guides comparing horses to cows shows a lactating cow feeding herself and a growing calf require the same energy as 500kg active horse, or a 600kg larger breed horse retired in a field.

The average fattening adult beef cow just under 7mcal/d - thats likely similar to a 300kg pony requirements.

These figures show the bovine industry are far ahead of the equine industry in terms of understanding the seasonal changes affect of grass on their animals. My region is mainly beef cows and the local agri shops as soon as spring rolls around has magnesium supplement posters up, buckets of mag licks in the doorway etc.

Horses are just as susceptible to grass tetany but its just not known what it is in the equine world for us to spot the mild to severe symptoms.
Luckily most owners have their horses on a basic mineral supplement to cover minimal mag. requirements, aside from forage, but if not, i think we can get symptoms presenting and can easily think its something else.

Compare the 2 scenario’s - a farmer sees his cows muscles trembling, acting skittish, laying down more, or full blown on the ground slow seizure and grabs the magnesium hoping he can replenish in time. A horse owner seeing same symptoms gets a saddle fitter out due to weird behaviour while ridden, a physio for harder sore twitchy muscles, vet to do scans, pull bloods, cushings /ppid tests for fat pads etc.
If we as horse owners were given more clear indications about the major macro minerals, and their symptoms when imbalanced/deficient, we’d save ourselves and everyone else so much time/money and likely save more horses from suffering.
But its a leisure industry, and cattle are the food chain - farmers are more important to educate than leisure horse owners -so we have to educate ourselves, we dont get the government posting us literature, we have to seek out the literature that thankfully does exist.
Its a tough thing caring for large animals, i get it, sometimes the minor of symptoms can mean the worst diagnosis, and the worst symptoms can require a simple feed change solution. Vets arent educated deeply in nutrition, just the basics, theyre not equine nutritionists, theyre disgnosticians with tools to treat symptoms based on whatever diagnosis can be reasonably attributed.
I get quite frustrated when i see one industry well-versed in simple nutrition issues/symptoms, deal with it easily, while a neighbouring industry struggles in the dark.
I do think the equine industry is catching-up though ?

 

[SEL]

Our 22 year old mare had a seizure today that lasted about a minute. She then went back to normal immediately after as if nothing had happened. Called vet who said this is very rare in horses.

She is booked in tomorrow for a full examination but wondering if anyone else has experience with seizures.

She is retired, does not have PPID or EMS. Recently had a mechanical laminitis episode which she has fully recovered from. Eats, drinks as normal and generally lives a charmed life.

How did you get on with the vet?

 

[Bonnie Allie]

How did you get on with the vet?

Thank you for all your kind responses.

We have had extensive diagnostic tests and all it turned up was a small dip in phosphates in an otherwise healthy horse.

However there were also some adjacent situations that the vet considers might have had an impact but they are quite a long bow to draw.

We are in Sydney where we have had 3 x 100 year floods in 9 months. Our catchment and our soils have never held this much water. In our area there have been an increase in severe neurological cases. These cases however have all ended in pts or death as the horses have gone down quickly and been unable to stand again.

Whilst the bloods from these horses also don’t turn up anything they think maybe there are toxins coming out of the soil, bacteria or something we haven’t seen before as we have never been in this situation.

We will monitor our mare and hope she doesn’t have another episode but being realistic at 22yrs even without PPID and EMS this could be the start of something.

Interestingly even though vet keeps repeating siezures are rare in horses everyone seems to know someone who has had one. Might just be the bush telegraph but maybe they are not as rare as we think.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Our 22 year old mare had a seizure today that lasted about a minute. She then went back to normal immediately after as if nothing had happened. Called vet who said this is very rare in horses.

She is booked in tomorrow for a full examination but wondering if anyone else has experience with seizures.

She is retired, does not have PPID or EMS. Recently had a mechanical laminitis episode which she has fully recovered from. Eats, drinks as normal and generally lives a charmed life.

Ive just lost my beloved boy to colic. He had a seizure last November it was shocking to see. I did post it here - have you checked for tape worms? as they can cause this - my boy had Med-High count despite worm counts and such. Just a thought. Sorry for your horse it is just shocking.