Self employed but only working for one yard- Rights?

McNally

McNally

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I used to work weekends at a yard and had a regular Monday to Friday office job. As the yard grew i was offered more hours so gave up the office and began to work 6-7 mornings a week and a few evenings.
They told me they had looked into taking on a part timer and it was best for me to register as self employed as otherwise i would have to be on the same hourly rate as the full timers who live in and not on a great wage. I questioned this a few times but the trainer i work for is also in the legal profession and so "lovely and trustworthy" i took his word for it and reg myself as self employed. Its all above board i pay NI and get a tax return etc. They pay me by cheque every Friday.
I love this job and its the only thing i've ever done that i really enjoyed and my hours fit in around my daughter and school AND give me time to ride my own horse all though winter, its perfect.
I was told that my main role is too do the family's own horses and then help with the racers so that even when the end of the race season came about and everyone took their paid holiday i would be fine as still doing the family horses and holiday cover (may need to cut my hours slightly- this is fine)
Last week i was told as of then i had to go down to a 3 day week- Really worried but figured ok i can cope (supportive O/H and not forever)....Monday morning i was told there were no more hours for me and i could go in to clean tack once week but other than that nothing- with immediate effect- i was so upset and really really gutted at being treated this way I am penniless at the minute having spent a packet doing up a field as i was earning regular decent money (good job as i now have had to give notice at my horses livery yard- cant afford it but will move them to the field)
Do i have any rights at all? a few people have mentioned they still need to give notice or pay in lieu even for self employed- I have no idea??

Sorry really long, thanks for reading it all tho!
 
It would be worth you taking some legal advice as I suspect you do have rights in this situation. However an employment lawyer would be in the best position to advise you.
 
Sorry but none at all - as self employed you could have put a contract in place with them for you to supply services with notice either way, but I am guessing you haven't.

My contact states a week either way - so even that wouldn't have bought you much time. Disposable workforce you see they don't have to give you anything.

It sounds to me like they have worked you well over the winter but don't need the extra hands anymore

You have 2 choices - either be angry and bite your nose off or keep going to clean tack and see if they do pick up anything else, also as you are self employed did you have your own insurance ? If so you could advertise as a freelance groom for when people go on thier holidays / other yards have grooms go off. I know a yard owner who has just taken on a freeelance for 8 weeks solid work as her hubby has gone into hospital. You could turn this round to your advantage and make a go of it - at least until winter and your yard need you back ... who knows you could be to busy to take them up by then !

I pay £12 each per day to our freelance when I am away to do evening bring in, nets feed pick feet out and muck out - which is cheap I think but when you consider it will take her an hour £24 quid goes quite far !
 
You can't do much about the way you have been treated, but if you were paying NI and tax then in my opinion they were employing you. I am self employed and registered a such with the IR.
I pay my vehicle insurance as self employed and I have liability insurance for the business type I am in.
I do some work for various people and give them a bill. I use my own tools.
If, for example I was asked to work two days a week for someone at an hourly rate on their premises using their tools, I would be employed by them, so I can be both employed and self employed.
 
MrsD123 said:
If, for example I was asked to work two days a week for someone at an hourly rate on their premises using their tools, I would be employed by them, so I can be both employed and self employed.
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If they are Employing you - they have to be paying Employers NI and you your Employee's NI - can you find out if that was happening ?
 
as a Self Employed you don't have any ''rights'' in this situation, however IR takes a dim view of ''fake'' self employment... I believe you would find that they would consider you employed by the yard, with the yard being liable for employer's insurance and NI for you and obliged to give you notice.
 
I could be wrong, but I am self employed, but I also have two women who rent tables from me in my dog grooming salon and the way I interpret the law is this:

if you make your own hours,
keep your own diary,
are free to work elsewhere,
pay your own insurance, tax, advertising (as applicable)
submit an invoice for your services for which you set your own prices

then you are self employed.

And if you can tick those boxes, and you are suddenly let "go" then you have no rights.
 
You have really no rights as self employed is just that!

I would just look around to see if there is anything else to plug up the shortfall!

I would not be worried about it nor take offence!

Ideally in a perfect world a bit more notice would have been nice but then being self employed you can also turn round and say I can't work that day due to other commitments
 
I dont really know the answer to your question but I was always of the understanding that you cant be self employed and only work for one person. When your employers told you to go self employed it was just their "get out" to not have to be bothered in doing your PAYE and an employers contribution to your NI.
 
A lot of people who think they're self employed are actually employed. Try Citizens Advice Bureau or an employment lawyer. ACAS is usually a good start for most employment queries but not sure whether it covers the self/ employed situation.
 
If you are self-employed then you will be filing your own self assessment tax returns and submitting your own NI. The people you are working for can have you work indefinitely for them or not at all as the case may be if you are not contracting out to them ie with a contract of work. I have self employed workers at times during the year. I pay them for the work they do but it is up to them to sort out their own insurance, tax returns and to pay their NI. I am not obliged to have them work any set hours or over any set period of time unless I choose to enter into a contractual agreement with them, which I don't.
 
As the others have said, I don't think you have many rights.

Are there any other yards where you could work locally for a similar agreement? My friend is self employed at a racing yard (again, fits in well around her daughter) but she does find it difficult not having any holiday pay etc, as a single mum she can't afford not to work and even had to ride out on Christmas morning :(
 
Just a quick reply to say that I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be very very wary of listening to too much of the advice in some of the posts above. While well-meaning, those who are confidently telling you that you have no rights are potentially misleading you.

The only safe option is to do like the first poster suggested and speak to a solicitor who specialises in employment law - they will usually speak to you for 15-30mins on the phone with no charge, so it is really worth doing.

I work in the legal profession myself (different area), and really hate to see incorrect legal 'advice' bandied about on the internet. Fwiw, I strongly suspect that Martlin (sp?) is on the money, and that you may have the inland revenue on your side, but do talk to a solicitor.
 
Speaking as an Accountant I would be very surprised if the Inland Revenue would view you as self employed BUT it is a very technical area & you should get properly qualified advice - the devil is in the detail as ever.
If you are deemed an employee the length oif service would also be critical to any rights you may have so you really do need to speak to a proper expert.
 
I doubt HMRC would view you as self employed. There is legislation called IR35 to stop people registering themselves as a limited company or partnership to avoid tax. I assume you haven't done this, but there is a list of the criteria for employment here which may help you to find out whether HMRC would consider you employed or not:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/leaflets/guide_limitcomp.htm
 
I agree with the replies that suggest you get some proper advice.

I know there is a 'problem' with being 'self employed' but only working for a single 'client' - I work for a large company and we use 'consultants', however, if we are their sole 'client' there are 'problems' - sorry I can't be more specific as I've never really paid attention to what the 'problem' is, although I do know it is around the issue of being 'deemed employed'.

So, yes, get some proper advice :)
 
If you really were self-employed, you wouldn't be working under them...you'd be working for them with a contract lining out the services you are providing for x amount of dollars, etc. Sounds to me like they tricked you so that they could have you at their disposal, and then dispose (sorry to sound so blunt) of you once you're not needed anymore.
 
jroz said:
If you really were self-employed, you wouldn't be working under them...you'd be working for them with a contract lining out the services you are providing for x amount of dollars, etc. Sounds to me like they tricked you so that they could have you at their disposal, and then dispose (sorry to sound so blunt) of you once you're not needed anymore.
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Sounds like they have set you up to avoid all the responsibilities of employment. Did you receive a payslip or did you invoice them? If you paid your own tax and NI then you sound self-employed. But agree totally that you should get proper legal advice, and maybe you should advertise yourself as a freelance groom.
 
martlin said:
as a Self Employed you don't have any ''rights'' in this situation, however IR takes a dim view of ''fake'' self employment... I believe you would find that they would consider you employed by the yard, with the yard being liable for employer's insurance and NI for you and obliged to give you notice.
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I think that you may well have some rights under this point. You should also have holiday pay, etc.

Definitely worth giving CAB a call in the first instance and follow it through.
 
Get some advice from the CAB.

I know the IR take a dim view of employers who try to evade their responsibilities by making staff 'self employed'. Take a look at the rules on unfair dismissal - you can find them on the internet and they go into the question of who is considered an 'employee'. As I read it you qualify on every count. You should qualify for all the rights of an employee, including being given reasonable notice, redundancy pay etc etc. Your rights are very lilmited if you have been working for this person for less than 12 months.

Do look into what are your rights. Employers must not be allowed to get away with this kind of cavalier treatment of employees.
 
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