Self insuring - Looking at best catastrophic policy out there ?

[Spangles]

Having just received my renerwal policy with Emporium, obviously it's gone up despite no claims in past year ! I have been quoted over £1,000 for the year with several exclusions. So, I am thinking of putting the money away each month and taking out some sort of limited cover (catastrophic ?) instead ?

I already self insure a pony who basically just hacks as I think maybe his ear was the only thing covered.

Does anyone else do this and can suggest a good policy to look at please ?

 

[ihatework]

I think the KBIS one is good

 

[rara007]

I like kbis. Touch wood not claimed though. They cover a decent number of days in Europe which was important to me.

 

[j1ffy]

KBIS looks to have the best coverage (compared with Harry Hall for example) for the price. I'm about to take out the same. The only downside is apparently they were taken over recently and customer service has apparently declined, I don't know if it's impacted claims though.

 

[criso]

I was with Shearwater, they still do an injury only policy but it's not on their website.

However I switched to SEIB as I wanted to include tack. Basically they can put you on a veterans policy even if the horse isn't a veteran.

Equesure who are a broker also came me a few options.

 

[MissTyc]

I got the KBIS one as it seemed to best meet my needs and was £350/year for an otherwise uninsurable horse.

 

[criso]

My SEIB one was about £350 and came with lots of extras. As well as the cover for accidents which includes complementary therapy, supplements and 50% of livery and transport, I get public liability, personal accident, theft or straying, disposal costs and I added £1500 of tack.

 

[planete]

World Horse Welfare Championplus here. Public liability ,personal accident and accidental injury for horse. £145.

 

[asmp]

One of ours is with KBIS

 

[2 Dragons]

I have been with KBIS for years and they have always been great, but with my ponies' exclusions and ages I changed to Harry Hall as it was cheaper- it doesn't include colic surgery like KBIS but its not something I would consider for my 2.

 

[Foxglove]

I took out the KBIS policy the first year it came out as it seemed to meet my needs quite sensibly on a horse that otherwise had 2 exclusions.

It came to renewal (no claims on the policy) and they asked for the horse’s veterinary history - which I thought was odd for what is essentially an accident policy. Anyway I merrily sent the records off and KBIS came back excluding colic surgery and ANYTHING related to the hind limbs!

The horse had ulcer treatment and her SI injected once due to slipping in the field 5 yrs earlier

Its obviously up to an insurer as to what risk they wish to take on but it rendered the policy virtually pointless! I queried with them how they could exclude an accident to the hindlimb on an accident policy and they didn’t really have any answer, but it basically meant that the horse could be hit by a car on the road and break her pelvis and it wouldn’t be covered despite this having absolutely nothing to do with the SI injection. The colic I sort of understand due to the ulcers but given that it makes up a large proportion of the policy it was slightly absurd.

I didn’t bother renewing and now choose to no longer insurer either of mine for anything other than third party

 

[Fieldlife]

I took out the KBIS policy the first year it came out as it seemed to meet my needs quite sensibly on a horse that otherwise had 2 exclusions.

It came to renewal (no claims on the policy) and they asked for the horse’s veterinary history - which I thought was odd for what is essentially an accident policy. Anyway I merrily sent the records off and KBIS came back excluding colic surgery and ANYTHING related to the hind limbs!

The horse had ulcer treatment and her SI injected once due to slipping in the field 5 yrs earlier

Its obviously up to an insurer as to what risk they wish to take on but it rendered the policy virtually pointless! I queried with them how they could exclude an accident to the hindlimb on an accident policy and they didn’t really have any answer, but it basically meant that the horse could be hit by a car on the road and break her pelvis and it wouldn’t be covered despite this having absolutely nothing to do with the SI injection. The colic I sort of understand due to the ulcers but given that it makes up a large proportion of the policy it was slightly absurd.

I didn’t bother renewing and now choose to no longer insurer either of mine for anything other than third party

That’s interesting. I’ve taken that policy out earlier this year. My horse had a puncture wound (healing) at time I took policy out. So they asked for full vet history. But the certificate hasn’t excluded anything.

 

[Foxglove]

That’s interesting. I’ve taken that policy out earlier this year. My horse had a puncture wound (healing) at time I took policy out. So they asked for full vet history. But the certificate hasn’t excluded anything.

I did think it was odd at the time but just wasn’t bothered enough to pay to get my vet to send a letter arguing the exclusions

 

[criso]

Both Shearwater and SEIB asked for full vets history despite being accident only but there's no exclusions.

 

[Birker2020]

I've just been quoted on the KBIS catastrophe policy as my current SEIB have decided not to cover my horse for vets bills or 3rd party liability going forward, I find this incredible as I've only wracked up £3800 over 3 claims and know people who have had 2 or 3 times this amount yet still been covered. They said it was due to the number of claims not total cost when i challenged it but it was them that decided to split the horses issue into seperate claims not my vets who wanted it lumped together as it could be argued it was all due to one issue. There was obviously method in SEIBs madness as its resulted in horse not covered for anything other than 'market value' which Ive been told can't be quantified until in the unlikely event I needed to claim for loss of horse (lightning/heart attack/broken leg type of fatal thing, God forbid) which I feel is very unfair as I'm paying for something that can't be quantified in terms of value.

Normally you get a choice of having exclusions, or a heavier premium or a higher excess. Its not SEIB as such, its the insurer they use apparently.

KBIS catastrophe cover were more expensive but covered horse for injury from external force plus theft and straying and joint flushing and bizzarely colic surgery although I'd never put one of mine through that.

Unfortunately I've not gone with KBIS in the end as I left it too late (I know I've 2 wks cooling off period) but I'm sure it won't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Melody Grey]

I got the KBIS one as it seemed to best meet my needs and was £350/year for an otherwise uninsurable horse.

This was my experience too.

 

[Red-1]

I've just been quoted on the KBIS catastrophe policy as my current SEIB have decided not to cover my horse for vets bills or 3rd party liability going forward, I find this incredible as I've only wracked up £3800 over 3 claims and know people who have had 2 or 3 times this amount yet still been covered. They said it was due to the number of claims not total cost when i challenged it but it was them that decided to split the horses issue into seperate claims not my vets who wanted it lumped together as it could be argued it was all due to one issue. There was obviously method in SEIBs madness as its resulted in horse not covered for anything other than 'market value' which Ive been told can't be quantified until in the unlikely event I needed to claim for loss of horse (lightning/heart attack/broken leg type of fatal thing, God forbid) which I feel is very unfair as I'm paying for something that can't be quantified in terms of value.

Normally you get a choice of having exclusions, or a heavier premium or a higher excess. Its not SEIB as such, its the insurer they use apparently.

KBIS catastrophe cover were more expensive but covered horse for injury from external force plus theft and straying and joint flushing and bizzarely colic surgery although I'd never put one of mine through that.

Unfortunately I've not gone with KBIS in the end as I left it too late (I know I've 2 wks cooling off period) but I'm sure it won't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I don't think they just go with this one horse though, they go back several years. One company asked if I'd EVER had an insurance claim for any horses owned! Usually they just go back several years though.

They are a company and there to make a profit so I can see why they would decline a customer who they see as more risky, fair or not.

 

[Goldenstar]

Not having third party liability for a horse is the height of stupidity.
It’s costs very very little when you consider what could happen if something strange goes wrong and ends with a third party seriously hurt .

 

[Birker2020]

I don't think they just go with this one horse though, they go back several years. One company asked if I'd EVER had an insurance claim for any horses owned! Usually they just go back several years though.

They are a company and there to make a profit so I can see why they would decline a customer who they see as more risky, fair or not.

Gosh I hadn't lost a horse before Bailey since 2004 (Bailey was an elective pts last year) although to be fair I had over £30K spent on her in the 17 years I had her so I expect it might have been that.

The advisor I spoke to said the insurer was quite 'picky' whatever that means.

Motor insurance they ask for last 5 years history, not sure if that's the same for horses, your experience suggests not.

 

[Birker2020]

Not having third party liability for a horse is the height of stupidity.
It’s costs very very little when you consider what could happen if something strange goes wrong and ends with a third party seriously hurt .

Gosh I wouldn't risk it, it would be a nightmare if someone got kicked. It could cost hundreds of thousands depending on how affected that person was and their quality of life.

I'm with the BHS, Gold member, so I have third party anyway, I made sure I took it out when I stopped insuring Bailey in 2016 due to the the exclusions on her policy.

 

[Goldenstar]

Good

 

[Birker2020]

Good

I'm not silly

 

[criso]

NFU used to look at owners history. When I got a new horse, they quoted a ridiculous amount as I'd made previous claims on my last. Think £800 a year even with several years of mutual bonus when the others quoted £300. They didn't refuse but they made it so financially unattractive that I went elsewhere.

Someone I know tested whether it was the owner they looked at by putting her new horse in her Dad's name and getting s better quote from NFU this way.

I went accident only as I had too many exclusions. One company looked at the vet history and excluded a front leg after an overreach years previously. It wasn't even something I'd get the vet out for but I was away and my YM got a visiting vet to have a look. No treatment but was on the clinical history.

Insurers seem to be getting much more cautious but I can sort of see why.

Even a relatively minor injury can quickly top £1k with antibiotics, drugs, a few visits and maybe a couple of x-rays to exclude more serious damage.

If I'd gone down the vets fees route, I was getting quoted about £600. If I'd had an incident like Birker of £3800, I'd need 6 claim free years before the insurer moves into profit. If a horse has 3 incidents in a year, how likely is it to make it through the next 6 years without an incident.

 

[Birker2020]

If I'd gone down the vets fees route, I was getting quoted about £600. If I'd had an incident like Birker of £3800, I'd need 6 claim free years before the insurer moves into profit. If a horse has 3 incidents in a year, how likely is it to make it through the next 6 years without an incident.

Well yes I agree if they were three incidents. But they were all contributory issues due to one issue.

 

[criso]

Well yes I agree if they were three incidents. But they were all contributory issues due to one issue.

Yes but whether you lump them together or split them out for insurance, it starts to look like a bad risk.

I suppose the test will be in the next few years, will your horse have something that might have generated another claim which would prove their caution right or will there be some claim free years which would have let them recoup some of their outlay.

 

[Birker2020]

Yes but whether you lump them together or split them out for insurance, it starts to look like a bad risk.

I suppose the test will be in the next few years, will your horse have something that might have generated another claim which would prove their caution right or will there be some claim free years which would have let them recoup some of their outlay.

Yes sorry didn't have time to explain, trying to print off roll call for fire alarm.

Catch up later

 

[criso]

Yes sorry didn't have time to explain, trying to print off roll call for fire alarm.

Catch up later

I wasn't getting at you, i just used your numbers to illustrate the maths.

I could have used my last horse who racked up £20k over 5 years when premiums were only £300/£400. NFU were never going to make their money back hence using premiums to drive me away.

You need a lot of people not making claims over several years to balance me out.

I surprised i haven't been refused renewal!

 

[Birker2020]

I wasn't getting at you, i just used your numbers to illustrate the maths.

I could have used my last horse who racked up £20k over 5 years when premiums were only £300/£400. NFU were never going to make their money back hence using premiums to drive me away.

You need a lot of people not making claims over several years to balance me out.

I surprised i haven't been refused renewal!

Sorry Criso, fire drill done! All compliant, phew

No I know you weren't having a go at me, I completely lost my thread.
I'm keeping my current insurer and hoping he doesn't have an external visible injury, very doubtful he would as this is one of the reasons he's on individual turnout like the other 25 plus horses, cos' people prefer this.

I'm surprised I kept with NFU all those years, I lost three horses back to back with NFU (broken leg/heart attack/wobblers) and was very lucky that my premium wasn't sky high when I went back to them for Bailey. But things were different in those days.