Selfish Motorists who DO NOT slow down

[moneypit1]

Went out on Fly yesterday on a fairly busy road. I went about 100 yards (need to go this way to bridle path) and was wearing reflective tabbard etc. Several motorists, 1 lorry driver and a motorbike did not slow down which resulted in my friend and her horse leaping in front of them in sheer panic and my horse turning and trying to bolt. We even asked the oncoming drivers to slow down but the lorry driver caused such a panc he eventually had to switch off his engine so we could pass. We were verbally abused and found the whole ride very stressful. I don't think most motorists realise that in many cases it is their actions that cause accidents and interestingly horses do in many counties have preference on the road "to any motor vehicle" (old bye law that has in most cases never been changed). Where have all the old tv adverts gone re passing horses slowly, i remember them from years ago?

 

[Guinness]

sadly i think even if the adverts came back it wouldnt make any difference, drivers seems to think the highway code doesnt apply to them, all you can do is get the number plate and make a complaint about the driver
ive started riding in the middle of the road so cars have to stop and wait behind me until its safe for them to pass, probably not the wisest thing to do but i got so fed up of cars whizzing past i found its the only solution, also taking a long schooling whip and holding it out into the road should stop them from coming too close

 

[Happytohack]

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also taking a long schooling whip and holding it out into the road should stop them from coming too close

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Perhaps we should have something like they do on some bikes - a sort of stick with a red flag on the end (not explaining myself too well, but I hope you know the thing I mean?)
I've stopped riding out on a lot the old routes I used to ride as it is just too dangerous - everyone is in a tearing hurry and as Gigglepig says, they think they are exempt from the highway code. The adverts are still on btw, but usually about 3.00 in the morning!

 

[pottamus]

Many apologies but Gigglepig your attitude stinks and you will end up in a nasty accident doing that...do you not think it is a bit selfish to ride in the middle of the road holding traffic up...I wonder why drivers have no patience or tolerance for horse riders with riders doing things like that!!! Surely it is better to let them get on with it...if they wizz past they are gone and out of your way quicker! Surely horses can be trained to get used to such things with correct training and riding?
I will probably get lashed for posting this but it annoys the hell out of me that some riders have these attitudes and then moan that drivers have no respect for them!!! I wonder why?

 

[Guinness]

i didnt mean in the middle middle of the road i meant the middle of my side of the road! so if cars are coming in the opposite direction cars behind me cant squeeze past! and i always thank people if they have to wait, its not asking much for them to wait a minute to get past me and in my opinion its much safer than coming too close and too fast past me!

 

[Happytohack]

I also ride in the middle of my "lane", this means that cars cannot squeeze past you if there is oncoming traffic, it also means that as they are pulling out to pass you, you can move over which gives them even more room. I always wear a tabbard with Caution Horse and a large red triangle on it, I always thank people for slowing down and acknowledge that they are behind me and I always trot on to get out of their way when possible. I am lucky, I have two very quiet pretty bomb proof horses - they are both too big for motorists to squeeze past being 17.3 and 17 hh heavy draught types. I also think we have to avoid riding in busy times, school run time and work run time - people are in a great hurry at that time and can easily get annoyed if they are delayed. I am lucky that the motorists round here are very good, but I do avoid the busy times of the day and the busy roads.

 

[suzyseymour]

We are really lucky here 99% of the drivers are fab with the horses. If I can see a problem ahead that is likely to set the horse off I ask the cars to stop. Especially if I'm out on the 5yr old. They are more than happy to wait. And I do ride up the middle of my side of the road on the 5yr old if 'm passing parked cars on the other side, just so no one sneaks past. But if I see a car comming before I get there I stop and wave them through before I go through. We have gone through and nappy stroppy stage and they are more than happy to wait, but get a big wave and thanks once she is settled.

The only run in we have had was with a bus. I was riding her bearing in mind she is a 17hh heavy hunter and my friend behind me on my old mare. Both wearing tabbards mine was a wide and slow one. the bus came flying past the other mare, I was going past the parked cars, but over to the left cos there was no room for the bus to get past, but he still tried to squeeze through!! There was no way it was going to fit, you can only just get a car through. So failing to get past her he just sat right on her bum!! As he still wasn't backing off I had to turn her right across the middle of the road to stop the bus, and put my hand up. There's always one numpty driver!

 

[bellaboo]

I definately think drivers should be more aware of passing horses with caution on the roads. I lost my first horse after a collision with a small van and the other night i took my yearling out on our very quiet road for her first walk out with maybe meeting cars. Was wearing 'caution young horse' tabard and the first car that passed us was brill, i slowed her down and she stopped and waited for Bella to passed so thanked her very much and everything was fine. Next minute heard what we thought was something quite large coming up behind us, but it wasn't. A Shogun and smaller car came racing round the corner, both me and my friend waved the car to slow down and it didn't as it went pass we shouted to slow down and he just shouted back he couldn't, we have heard since that they have been known to race down these lanes. Bella was ok, just rocked back and forwards, but think what could have happened if she was a silly youngster, couldn't face losing another one on the roads

 

[MizElz]

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Surely it is better to let them get on with it...if they wizz past they are gone and out of your way quicker! Surely horses can be trained to get used to such things with correct training and riding?

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pottamus....i wonder, do you actually own a horse? and if you do, do you ride it on the roads very often? the idea of a motorist 'whizzing past' and getting out of the way quicker may sound straightforward, but anybody who has ever ridden a horse (and not just a riding school plod who has been conditioned to cope with idiots on the road) will know that they are sensitive, nervy and unpredictable. if cars whizzing past was the solution to the problem, then do you think riders would feel the need to complain about motorists?

you cannot 'train' a horse to cope with fast moving traffic at close proximity; you can ride them in a positive manner, ensure that all possible precautions are taken. but, short of inventing a system by which you can school your horse alongside a car (moving at various speeds, of course), you cannot just make a horse feel ok about a vehicle charging at them at 60+mph.

i speak from experience; my horse is quite claustrophobic, whether this is on the road (i have to go on the road to reach the bridleways) or in a school with another horse coming towards her on the other rein. All i can do is sit tight, keep reassuring her and keep her as straight as possible. and all i can say is that if every driver 'whizzed past', as you suggest, my horse and i would not have much time left on earth!

 

[pottamus]

There are always going to be idiot drivers that are either in too much of a hurry or ignorant to riders needs. But I cannot condone intentionally holding up traffic behind you as having had this happen to me on a few occasions it is very frustrating. As a car driver (and rider) I sit behind such people wondering when they are going to get in so I have a cat in hells chance of passing safely. If I can't get past them without having to go right over the other side of the road then that is actually more dangerous for all because you can't duck back in once committed and can't skim past the rider either! It is hard as a motorist, especially on country lanes.
I would much rather pull over when I hear a car coming so I am as close to off the road as possible...the driver appreciates it and me and my horse stay safe. If cyclists ride out in the middle of 'their lane' they would be carved off the roads! So why should we as riders do it on much wider horses?
Sorry, just don't get that mindset at all. To me, mine and my horses welfare come first and if that means being a bit more aware of traffic before it is on top of you and shifting out of the way then I am happy to do that.

 

[MizElz]

any rider worth their salt would at least try to move out of the way if they can - but, when there are no gateways, verges, fields etc, it doesnt mean that motorists should fly past with no regard. i am also a driver, and after i first passed my test i got very angry at some horse riders who i passed (considerately) who showed no respect, as you have said. this is an issue that i dont think will ever be resolved - many motorists are sensible, and many riders are respectful, but there are always the odd few of each who are an exception. maybe horses should be banned from the road....... a solution for motorists, at least, but this would leave people like myself stranded. the way i see it, there is no way out.

 

[pottamus]

MixElz....thanks for that and yes I do own and ride a horse...I ride 6 days a week on roads 100% of the time as we have absolutely no bridleways around here without a 20 minute trip in a box. I have ridden on all types of road since I was a child and am now 33 years old. The roads I ride on consist of one track country lanes, roads through built up areas and B roads...a whole assortment.
Some drivers are good and others are in such a rush they speed past at the national speed limit. For your information I believe you can train a horse to cope with such things, positive riding, patience and lot's of practice usually works. When I bought my 5 year old from Wales he had done nothing and barely set foot out on roads...he did not know what traffic was! Together we have worked to get him 100% in traffic...I had no choice round here but to do this. Yes it was hard in the early days with fast cars that would panic him and we also get regular artic and aggregate lorries on our country lanes too. Albeit it took time, we got there safely and now he will stand and let anything pass him at whatever speed because I have taught him not to worry and also understood what worked for him. Sometimes nowadays I get caught on single track roads with aggregate lorries, I pull him over onto the verge but even then as they come past, if I put my arm out I could touch them they are that close to me...but my horse does not mind and is immune to such things now. So please do not assume that you know things about me because you don't and there is always another side to every argument.
And a final point...the police seem to be able to train their horses okay to cope with riots, bombs, explosions etc etc...so to say you cannot train a horse to cope with fast cars....please!

 

[MizElz]

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And a final point...the police seem to be able to train their horses okay to cope with riots, bombs, explosions etc etc...so to say you cannot train a horse to cope with fast cars....please!

[/ QUOTE ]


well, this may be true, but the police only recruit a certain type of horse, with a specific kind of temperament. the same with the army. there are some horses who are just too sensitive to be conditioned to behave as if nothing is happening. and im sorry if i have offended you, its just that your initial comment seemed to me as if you did not have experience of what you were putting across. i accept that you do!!!! it was just the comment about drivers whizzing past perhaps being a better option that hit me - i had a mental image of my horse (who is gradually improving, after 7 years!!) and her reaction to drivers who speed past with no regard!

no offence meant, and i do understand what you are saying

 

[Laafet]

This is something I feel very strongly about. I have had two big accidents on the road, I was hit by a car as a pedestrian and had a horse bolt with me down hill upsides a terrified lorry driver towards a blind t junction and ended up in a ditch. I am now really nervous on the roads and Murphy is mainly because of me, but as he has got older he is great now. I was beginning to relax but the other day I was hacking along a road with tabard and reflective quarter sheet and was over taken at speed and close to me by a d*ck head in a mercedes just at the same moment at Murphy performed one of his famous huge spooks. I missed him by millimeters and it has really shaken me up - I keep thinking OMG if he'd hit me Murphy and may be me would have been killed, would he have stopped - I doubt it. Thankfully Mr T my youngster is very good but I think he might get ruined as despite asking drivers to slow down they rarely do and 4x4 seems to be the worst offenders and people towing. Luckily I rarely have to ride on the road but it really scares me and I am a professional rider so its got nothing to do with my ability. People just seem so wrapt up in their own world that they no longer notice what is going on around them when they drive.

 

[gloster_image]

Precisely and also may I add we cannot predict what scary monster will be lurking in the bushes! A plastic bag, a bird, who knows what might jump out and cause the horse to shy sideways - right into the car thats "Whizzing past getting on with it".

 

[MizElz]

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Precisely and also may I add we cannot predict what scary monster will be lurking in the bushes! A plastic bag, a bird, who knows what might jump out and cause the horse to shy sideways - right into the car thats "Whizzing past getting on with it".

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i am glad that someone can see my point of view - i dont wish to say that pottamus is wrong, but some horses are just plain goddamn spooky! and i dont believe any horse can be made 'immune' to traffic, or anything else for that matter. my IDxTB boy was an absolute angel in traffic, but even he objected when a boy racer 'whizzed past' on a narrow road, forcing him into the ditch. he ruptured his check ligament that day; this was the catalyst in string of events that lead to me losing him two months later.

so you see, pottamus, i know what i am talkin about too!

 

[sarahgill]

I have to say, I have ridden out on the roads in company and on my own on all sorts of horses/ponies since a child and When i past my test i slowed down for every horse on the road, i past wide and slow and smiled and them waiting for a thank you! no thank you at all! it seems to me that many of the riders on the road are as ignorant as some of the drivers thus it is a battle never to be won! there are some riders in my village who now i know will look at me with disgust as i slow down and pass like "what are you looking at?" and if i didn't know better i would gladdly go flying pass tooting my horn every time obvously i wouldnt as i think of the horse reaction but many of these drivers that receive the same treatment and know nothing about horses reactions do go flying past cos they know they wont get a thank you anyway!! people who are on the road with nervous horses should go out wearing L plates i use those on my youngster and even the dumpest of drivers understand what that means "learner-becareful!" Alot of riders are frightened of the road themselves and it is not the horse at all, they hear something big and scary coming behind then and start crwaling up the reins grabing the horses mouth and the horse starts to worry, if you ride forward and relaxed many horses are ok, you need to train yourself before training a horse on the road! start to show compassion to drivers to receive compassion yourself otherwise its a losing battle one side has to give in, and they should bring back those tv adverts as drivers do need educating, some just dont understand animals at all!

 

[Laafet]

Here here kk. Murphy is very good now, he was overtaken by combines and lots of tractors with huge trailers during his holiday here and didn't even look at them (I wish he's always been like that) but they did give me plenty of room, as there are no verges here just road and ditch. I don't have a problem with speedy cars with Murph but he can spook and cars riding my stirrups is not pleasant. As for Tarquin he looks quiet but is still only young, he dumped me yesterday when I was out because he got bitten by something and panicked.
Also a word of warning I prefer the 'jig jogging I've got no control' look to slow cars down rather than the whip pointing as a few years back a car driver reversed his car at speed into a string of racehorse because they berated him for not slowing down. Needless to say horse was destroyed and rider never could ride out again.

 

[gloster_image]

I always say thank you, without fail, with a nod, smile and verbally say thank you.
Thats a scary story tarquin and was nearly mirrored with me yesterday, I was riding down the road on a spooky horse but he was alright, two young lads drove past tooting horn and telling me to "F off", at speed, I shouted for them to slow down (as horse was trying to spin and run for home, dont blame him) lads put their car into reverse and sped back towards me - i was convinced they were going to hit me but another car came and they sped off. Was terrifying.

 

[Onyxia]

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When i past my test i slowed down for every horse on the road, i past wide and slow and smiled and them waiting for a thank you! no thank you at all! it seems to me that many of the riders on the road are as ignorant as some of the drivers thus it is a battle never to be won!

[/ QUOTE ]
And thats the root of the problem.
Cant blame dirvers for getting wound up when they dont get a thankyou for taking the time to show us some consideration.Even is your horse is spooking and you dont feel it is safe to take hands off at that point in time,a nod and simle can create so much goodwill.

We all have a right to be on the roads(although I am sure most of us would prefere miles of off road hacing!) and we all need to consider each others needs.
I can honestly say I always make a point of AT LEAST nodding and smiling at drivers who slow down,let me past(with pram and horse)-if you do something and get a thankyou you will do it again,if you dont you will think twice next time!

 

[sarahgill]

I must say i have used the 'whoops my horse is jogging in to the middle of the road, you better slow down" good practise for the leg yeilding!!!

One thing that really does get me is when the over cautious driver decides to stop a mile ahead of you turn off his engine and hold up the whole road while you think sh*t i better trot on to get past him then two steps past the car, driver turns on car with revs and scares sh*t out of horse!! oo yes thanks very much!

 

[bellaboo]

I always say thanks to the drivers who pass us with care, but anybody who races passed us or gets so close the wing mirror hits my stirrup certainly gets told otherwise!! I also drive and yes it is frustrating when riders don't thank you for slowing down, and i do think not only should drivers be more aware passing horses, riders also need to have some manners when cars have passed them with care. My boy was 110% in traffic yet he still died after being hit by a car, so regardless of how well trained your horse is on the road it still won't help you and your horse is some pratt is driving too fast.

 

[MizElz]

i remember the racehorse incident....*shudders*

it goes through my mind everytime i have to wave my arm for someone to slow down. if a driver did decide to come back at you, how could you ever defend yourself? i honestly dont know what i would do.

 

[gloster_image]

Precisely what was going through my mind yesterday - I was frantically looking around to see if there were any bridleways nearby I could turn and gallop down. And this was on a country lane.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

Living where we do, there are lots of windy road, sharp bends etc.

I'm often out on the roads (I walk miles lol) lead reining or walking next to a child on a pony. Our pony is as bombproof as they come, but I always think it only takes ONE incident to undo that. I ALWAYS carry a bright whip, always wear Hi Viz.
This pony will happily squeeze between a moving concrte mixer lorry and a wall (I know, we had to do it when the driver refused to stop), and won't bat an eyelid. Regardless, I will always ask a driver to slow down, by using my sick in an up and down motion. if they don't slow down, tough, I still smile and wave (hoping in future the driver might think twice). If they slow down, I call out a big thankyou, big smile, and big wave. And I teach the children to do the same. I don't think drivers always notice a nod, so an extended gesture of thanks always seems to go down well.
I realise this isnt always possible if you're riding, but there's always some way of making sure a driver KNOWS you are grateful.

I wouldnt dream of riding in the middle of the road, if a driver came too fast and was met with a rider in the middle of their side of the road, and acar in the opposite direction the horse would get the impact. It's just an arrogant way of trying to get drivers to slow down, and I imagine would just make drivers less likely to be courteous to riders. Which is where the rest of us suffer. No wonder we get the reputation we do.

 

[moneypit1]

Pottamus, some horses will always spook as it is obviously in their nature and no amount of training will change that. Sometimes Fly will not bat an eye lid other times he leap in the air, thats just the way he is. Having said that, I never take it for granted he will stay calm, but someone speeding past will 90% of the time frighten the living day lights out of him. It's just a bit of common sense that is required really and it shouldn't be such a big deal.

 

[Boltonrider]

QUOTE "As a car driver (and rider) I sit behind such people wondering when they are going to get in so I have a cat in hells chance of passing safely. If I can't get past them without having to go right over the other side of the road then that is actually more dangerous for all because you can't duck back in once committed and can't skim past the rider either! It is hard as a motorist, especially on country lanes. "

Now then, I've read this thread a number of times to try and see if I'm missing something! My first point as gotta be in relation to the above quote
We are talking about HORSE AND RIDER here, SKIMMING past and DUCKING in DO NOT come into the safe and sensible driving regime when passing horses!!!!
If you need to be skimming past or considering ducking back in, then your damn well not in a safe place to be overtaking! In fact your describing dangerous driving and driving without due care & attention!
Yes I drive, and I ride, in relation to all those who have described riding away from the kerb or in the middle of your lane, I congratulate you, well done. The only way of being safe is to make yourself as visible as possible AT ALL TIMES, wearing hi vis ALWAYS when out, and placing yourself where you can see and be seen as early as possible is the main way of doing this.
You will NEVER see a police mount riding in the gutter, as you will never see a motorcyclist in the gutter. When out on the road, we need to leave enough nearside room to take effective action, by moving out from the kerb, your more visible to drivers, you have the ability to react and move near side without putting yourself in the bush! The approaching driver has no defence in law for making a dangerous manouvere due to the rider being in a visibilty position.
As for honkers, shouters and brain deads, my advice is don't shout back, don't retaliate, we're vunerable enough as it is. Simply take a pen and paper with you when riding, record the vehicle no. plate, and report it as dangerous occurence to your local police. Secondly be smug in the knowledge that you'll get home safely and if we're lucky we'll pass brain dead in the gutter with fatal injuries!!
Be visible, be safe, wear the right gear, and make yourself visible in your road position. If need be get hold of ROADCRAFT from your library, and read it. You as a rider in the eyes of the law, if riding sensibly and legally, have the right of way on the highway.
To the fools who are going to come up with a comment regards my logic, I ride on the road, I'm an advanced driver, I see these incidents day in and day out. However there's nothing more enjoyable than the inconsiderate motorist who won't wait for anything, reacting when he see's the sign flash up in his face and the flashing lights, eventually these people will learn, be it by a driving ban or a spell behind the big steel door!
Be safe out there, enjoy the riding.....however if your a nervous road rider by your own admission, then consider is it wise to be on the road, take further training, consider the BHS Road safety course, then carefully consider if you need to ride the road and are there safer options for you.

 

[wizoz]

mmm, you live in Devon, we seem to be totally overrun with stupid ar**ho**s who think that slowing down means going from 40mph to at least 39mph!!! I constantly have to wave down drivers as most of our rides are on single track roads and we get some pretty heavy traffic on them too

My old horse was really good in traffic but if the vehicle didn't sound like it was slowing up he used to tense up, one day this TW*T of a Liverpudlian came flying up behind me and just as he got next to me a bird flew out of the hedge, my horse swung his quarters out and the car clipped him!

He stopped the car and told me if he had a gun he'd shoot my horse

I had a right slanging match with him, told him if he couldn't abide by the countryside code, he should pi** off back to scouser land (no offence to anyone from Liverpool just to that t**t) Not a very pleasent experience but my horse was non the worse for wear.

 

[Chex]

I've never really understood the theory behind riding near the middle of the road. I nearly always ride on the verge, and cars still pass on the wrong side of the road. Saying that, a car flew past me the other week without even moving over slightly - gave me more of a fright than Chex though! I only ride on really quiet roads though, don't think I've ever had two cars pass me at once. If I did I would get onto the verge as much as possible and halt so they could both pass safely. I'm also sick of other riders not thanking drivers

 

[sunflower]

Yes, it is annoying when drivers refuse to slow down, follow too closely, rev their engines etc etc etc, Some of this is undoubtedly due to drivers not really understanding or being aware of horses and how they will react. Unfortunately there are also those who know and do not care and no amount of advertising will change this.

I do think riders need to take some responsibility as well though, there are some who are quick to react negatively to other road users by getting angry, shouting, swearing, carrying schooling whips and using them to scratch cars etc. How can riders as a group expect to be treated with courtesy when some of them show so little? There also seems to be a 'group' of riders who feel that everyone else should make allowences for them because they choose to ride horses and that they have more 'right' to be on the roads then anyone else.