Sell, Keep or Send to Pro?

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Pudding01

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Hi,
I'd really value your opinions on the above.

Background: I told I'm a more than competent rider but I'm not the bravest!

Go a 4 yo in April due to other horses retirement. In so many ways she is exactly what I want and is v gd when out hacking or at a party. She is kept on a great yard, with top class advice and instruction on tap. In no way is she over fed, under turned out all checks are done regularly.

She has always had a naughty streak manifesting itself in a nap out the left shoulder, my weak side and so I admit to not always having that door shut. One one occasion she was very naughty about going down a lane away from the yard and had a good go in the school one day. It cac also be tricky to do eg turn on the forehand because it becomes an excuse to nap.

Fast forward to today. She has had two weeks off due to sustaining a knock in the field, and then was lunged and ridden yesterday - v well considering her age and time off. However, i was v nervous getting on. Hacked this morning with instructor and she was a bit fresh and let off a few volleys of bucks which again is fine given above. Then, on way home I turned her up a lane to move away from a car and on the way back down it, instructor told me to turn her right away from home and other horse. She napped, bronched about and then stood bolt up right twice in quick succession. I got off with my confidence shattered and a blood everywhere as she smacked me across the face at some point.

The question is, what to I do? I really like her and wanted it to work but I have lost confidence - now even more. Instructor is worried I will continue to lose confidence and hates any sign of rearing. She said sell. One other option is to send her to a v gd 'pro' who is great with youngsters and I could ride her there occasionally. She would jump her more too which I think she needs, then after say 6 weeks, bring her home and if we get back on track we do, if we dont, unfortunately she may have to be sold.

Sorry for writing such an essay but I'm keen to hear others opinions. Thanks
 
I feel for you. I had this (almost exactly) with my own mare last year. I backed her myself and she was going really sweetly. Then she got a bit of an attitude and that was fine but in the end she reared over backwards with me and I totally bottled it. I don't much care for rearing :o I sent her to my friend who also happens to be the kind of pro you are describing and who is ok with ones that rear. She was gone a couple of months. When she was behaving I went over and rode her there lots and then she came home to me once I was happy she wasn't going to do it. Since then it's been onwards and upwards. She's been out to her first shows with me and not put a foot wrong, I was hacking around alone and in company all fine. She had a month off over Christmas and I hopped back on no problem. It concerns me your instructor is so worried by rearing that sell is the instant reaction. :confused: I'm also confused she told you do something that she must have known would make the horse nap when your confidence is low and the horse has just had a break from work. I know the lesson has to be learnt but pick your battles and all that ... It doesn't sound like she has the best grasp on how to deal with your nerves or the horse. But I don't want to be overly critical as I might be mis reading

So, that is what I did and it's worked out pretty well for me. We're back to where we started and trust each other just fine but we did need someone to step in and break the cycle a bit :)

ETS: I did have mine checked by the vet, the saddle fitter etc etc and they all said they thought it was her being a moo rather than something physical. Which I guess was borne out by her now saintly behaviour!
 
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I think you are thinking of a great solution. Is there any way your instructor can ride her daily and you jump on at the end of a session just to re-iterate what the instructor has done and bring your confidence back too?
Worst comes to the worst, sell. I would personally do a lot of ground work (lunging) and get someone else to ride, then you sit on her while she's being lunged, then work up to riding in the school etc.
Possible in the short term for you - get some lessons at a riding school, on a schoolmaster, or on a slightly quirky horse but under an instructor's guidance.
If you feel the bond between you and said horse is strong, and you're willing to put time (and a lot of money) into her, then I don't see why you should sell.
If riding and time is an issue, and can't afford full livery, why not share /part loan her to an experienced person looking for a horse that they don't have to do full time. The horse will then improve on balance by getting used to different riders (as long as you're not completely different in riding style) and it takes the pressure off of you a bit.
Whatever decision you come too, best of luck and well done for trying to do the right thing :)
 
Youngsters can be trying at times.

Essentially, by turning her away from home/horse, you tested her, which is fine if she hadn't had that time out, but it really put her under pressure straight after some down time.

I personally, would go right back a step and re-build the confidence, have her checked over as well (wouldn't do any harm).

Just take small steps at a time, when you have built up confidence on both sides, test her again and if she still naps etc. make the decision to sell or send for schooling. Don't rush, take your time, you've had a bad knock. Trust your instinct you will know if she is not right for you, she sounds lovely though.

Don't beat yourself up and don't over think, just go slowly, she's only a baby :)
 
When you make your decision, which I can't advise you on myself, bear in mind that your horse is 5 this year, often called "Feisty Fives" or something else beginning with "f", because 5 year olds are so often known to be VERY trying.

The chances are that she will test you out all this year, and may improve at 6 or not until 7. This is a very well documented phenomenon, so don't blame yourself for having spoilt the horse, she was probably going to do this at 5 anyway.

Whatever you decide, I hope it goes to plan.
 
I think turning away from home and other horses on the way back from a hack is quite alot to ask a 4yo who has had 2 weeks off and you admit to not being the most confident anyway.

Can you not get your current instructor to ride her 3/4 times a week to make sure she is going along the right path for a month or so and see if she is any better then as young one are often quite good at trying their luck to see what they can get away with x
 
From what you write the pro idea seems a win win situation 1. It will work out and you will be able to ride your horse or 2. It doesn't work for you but the horse will have progressed in education and will be easier to sell. Its not a particularly good time for selling at the moment (just after Christmas) anyway
 
Thanks everyone for your replies and support! It's been really helpful. After getting over the shock of it, I do want to keep her - she is a super type, but I know that a), I have to do right by her, b), when I have a wobble, it won't help and c) she can be a minx. Ironically, having sat through the earlier bucking (and being commended on it!), I said to instructor that actually, it was good to that she did it when she did, with someone with me, making me ride forward, rather than tip toe around.

I do agree though that turning her away probably wasn't the best idea, but I didn't question it quick enough and as you all know, the naughty bits happen quickly!

I do have a lot of ground to make up - the enforced break didn't do us any good as she was going really well before and I felt we were getting back on track. She is going away primarily because I think a change of scenery will do her good, she will be jumped more and it's an opportunity for me to get a fresh pair of eyes on the situation.

I'm well aware of the naughty fives too - I have a friend who refers to it as the teenager stage!

I really really want it to work out. Thanks for your support and Jesstickle, I'm so pleased to hear it's worked out so well for you :)
 
I backed my girl myself and then got hoofed off (one foot in stirrup).... Bust shoulder, dislocated thumb and confidence in tatters. Turned out she was in agony with ovaries but I had lost my nerve by that point and didn't want the behaviour to be habit. I sent her to a pro who was brilliant, and during her last two weeks went and rode her as much as I could.
What I've got now is a four year old who yes, occasionally tries it on, but is a delight to ride. Without admitting I needed help I suspect we would have lost the bond we'd built since she was eight months old.
I now have as many lessons as I can afford and we are both really coming on!
Good luck!!
 
Sounds like you're not based with the right instructor to help you. Asking the horse to turn away like that was just asking for trouble . If instructor has this sort of mind set it won't be helping you and the horse work out as a partnership, I wonder what other things have been asked of the horse that would've encouraged more napping and naughtiness.

Would def consider basing horse at another yard with a pro rider !
 
OP Im afraid I also think that wasnt very sensible of your instructor to ask a 4 year old thats already had a bit of a bronc & 2 weeks off to turn away from other horses and home, asking for trouble imo, then tells you to sell when it goes pear shaped. Young horses are continually testing you with something, I currently have two 5 YOs and its one step forward 2 steps back just have to keep positive and ride confidently and you will get thru it, dont put yourself in a position to fail, getting help from a pro sounds like a good idea to put you back on track. Dont forget its not an easy option to sell
 
My 4 year old (well 5 this year) has been going through a naughty phase. Hes bronced a few times getting on and hes become strong and opinionated. Changed bit and ridden him through it. So far hes been placed 2nd and 3rd at his first shows out in british novice. You can crack it you need paitence and persistance. :) good luck!
 
Read my thread - have I made a massive mistake

I was in the same situation but slightly different - he bucked - massive

I had a nasty accident , resulting in operation , skin grafts 3 months unable to walk.

Fast forward 1 year and we doing fab, he still gets me off sometimes but I've regained my confidence which was a big issue, we have done some BS , jump cross , hack out alone.

But without 3 months of pro schooling and lots of support since them it would not of worked for me.


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=506657

I hope my story gives you hope there can be light at the end of the tunnel , but you really need to decide if its worth it, no horse is worth seriously hurting yourself. I stuck with it as my boy temperament is amazing and I knew he was not naughty and that generally he a quiet lad and by time he 8 hopefully he will be a steady Eddie type - oh and his jump is enormous lol

I gave it three months to get confidence back or he was to be sold. Set a goal and stick to it

I wish you all the luck and know exactly how your feeling right now xxxx
 
jess_asterix said:
I think turning away from home and other horses on the way back from a hack is quite alot to ask a 4yo who has had 2 weeks off and you admit to not being the most confident anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree, she's just being a youngster and trying it on too. My mare went over backwards with me when she was 4 and used to go up every now and then but she grew out of it and hasn't done it for years. I would get your instuctor to ride her at least once or twice a week and get on at the end of the session and inbetween stick to quiet schooling at home.
 
Hi again and thanks for all your support - it's been really encouraging.

I desperately want it to work out and hopefully my horse will be going off to be ridden by an excellent rider for a few weeks who will get her jumping and I can go and ride her there and get some lessons with her.

I am a bit confused though (and keep crying!) I spoke with my instructor / YO yesterday - who is very very experienced and rides (DR) at top level - and rightly so, she said my safety and confidence must come first and I wholly agree. But, she then said she thinks my horse would be better off in a jumping home - I don't jump and I agree she needs to jump and am more than willing to pay someone to come and jump her for me. But, this has never, ever been mentioned before?! I agree variety is essential and it's certainly not like she is bored to death in the school every day. But why say it now? I'm so upset.

My instructor can be a bit nervous of young horses - though has produced many, right up the levels but has had a very bad experience with a horse rearing. Until the weekend, we never questioned the mare - yes, she does have a nap out the left shoulder - but i'm as much to blame for that and I did freeze one day when she napped, wanting to go back to the yard. However, I've had her out at several small local shows and other places for lessons and she has been amazing. My confidence has now plummeted as I did get a bad fright and none of this is helping. I really really want this to work :(

Any advice or opinions greatly received :)
 
Your confidence in your horse or your instructor?

Not every trainer (instructor, whatever) is suitable for every situation no matter how excellent they might be in their own sphere and wanting other input does not devalue anyone's ability or the help you have had thus far. I would no more say I could help someone train a horse for GP dressage than fly to the moon, but if a horse is misbehaving or needs good baby basics I might have some useful things to say. It's not a value judgement!

If your instructor is not keen on the horse or her type in general then perhaps get some help from the person who will be riding (presumably you have picked someone with proven young horse experience not gone solely on competition advice, or facilities or other secondary concerns) and then return to your current instructor when you are more at the level she excels at?
 
OP- where are you based? If near me I can pass on details of my friend. Who is very good. I'm not just saying that as she is my mate. She rides for Spiderman on here as well, who I'm sure would vouch for her. She's really good with youngsters and rearers. You're probably no where near me but worth asking :)
 
TarrSteps - it's my confidence in my horse that has gone, but I can see where you are going...

My chosen rider is chosen due to their ability in bringing on young horses and their way with them - ironically, at a show (where my mare was a star), we were warming up together, and I said to a friend after that if I needed someone to ride a youngster for me, that's who it would be - the horrible irony. I've total confidence in her and hope to get some lessons with her too.

Jesstickle - thanks so much for the offer, but I'm pretty sure I'm nowhere near!
 
I don't think it's irony, more a good sign! :)

Can I just suggest you make the arrangements with the rider and then put it all in a box for a bit and don't worry about it until the rider has had a good chance to assess your horse. You're made a plan, just see how it all pans out. Ask the rider what she would like the horse to be doing between now and then but otherwise just stay with the things you and the horse can do relatively easily and enjoy. Don't panic about your confidence or even what YO thinks, just smile, shrug, and see what happens when the horse gets into a different program.

Is the horse going away to school or is the rider coming to you?
 
Pudding01

I'm sure if your horse had a choice it would rather just sit in a field eating and not doing DR or SJ..!!

But it does not and it has to do what you expect from it, so what if you don't jump my YO is very much into DR and has conpeteted at a high level , she has two horses one younger 6 year old and a 8 year old, she has not and does not ever jump them BUT she does pay someone to jump them about 1 time a month to keep them happy and doing interesting stuff

So just do what you bought your horse to do and get a friend or pay someone every now and again to jump it.
 
Thanks TarrSteps!

She's going away - she is a super type and on saturday my instructor/trainer/YP described her as 'smashing' - before this, bar a bit of naughtiness, there hadn't been any suggestion of preferring a jumping home, or her not being right for me. Thats upset me too, adding to my doubts.

I admit, I'm the worst for getting ahead of myself, and getting myself in a tizz! You are so right, I need to let it be - in a way I'm looking forward to the change of scenery and I think it'll do my mare good too - but, at the same time, I wish it wasn't happening! I'll definitely get a straight up perspective on her too which is great.
 
Also, make sure you tell the rider you want to see the process, not just the result. Everyone has different requirements but I know it really helped someone whose horse I ride to see me deal with a less than perfect situation and talk through what I was doing. I'll confess she didn't see the first time I pushed the horse's buttons - she was still riding the horse in the school and didn't need to be any more freaked out - but as soon as the horse and I started to come to an understanding we made an appointment for the owner to be there when I upped the demand. Seeing that the horse wasn't magically perfect for me but that there was a workable plan for dealing with it did a lot for her confidence. Then we started to get her to push the horse more. I still do everything first but each week she asks - and gets - a bit more, which further builds their confidence in each other.
 
^^^ this is great advice.
with feisty mares, which she sounds as if she could be, at least for this phase, it is about being smart and cleverly avoiding some battles (which, as said above, your present instructor did not think to do) and then having a coping strategy in place if she does get tricky about something.
it sounds as if you coped brilliantly with the bucks and were very unlucky to get smacked in the face (which makes thinking straight very difficult) when she went up. I hope the Pro you have in mind likes the mare and does a great job for you both.
 
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