Sell? PTS?

[lucy108]

I have now come across one of the most horrendous situations I have been in since owning horse. Sorry, this is going to be a long one but for the answers to be given I need to give some context.

I lost one of my two best horses in late July to intestinal cancer and I was broken. I couldn't handle looking at his empty stable and my other horse was pining. We were both completely heartbroken and couldn't seem to find a way out of the fog.

So, I did what every emotional girl does and looked for another horse. I put an advert up on Preloved and within 5 minutes had a phonecall from someone with a 12 year old TB. She said he was very laid back and would make an ideal companion but also had the potential to event (my last horse was an eventer). So, I got in the car, with a tear stained face and drove to see him. He was lovely to look at, a lovely head and all the stamp of an eventer. I took him for a hack where, in fairness, he behaved very well. Through traffic, in an open space etc. all the while my mum was chatting to his owner about him and how suitable he would be and how well we clicked.

I can safely say I was completely blinded by grief and heartbreak. I stupidly paid for him and he came home the following Saturday. She sent him with quite a few rugs but to my utter dismay when we got him home he was nowhere near the horse she described. He was pretty much attempting to climb out of the stable, running round the box, screaming, shouting....he wasn't alone, there was at least 5 other horse in stables next to him. This was when I first realised this was not the horse for me. Nevertheless, we carried on and put him in the field where he paced, and paced and paced and paced. He was stressy, he was highly strung, he was anxious and he was unhappy. He was not the horse I had been sold, that was for sure. After a few days I called his owner and she said she would not take him back, despite the face I said he was not at all what she had advertised. She was quite adamant and that was when I knew for sure I had been totally done.

So I battled on, through tears and heartbreak of losing my best friend, I carried on with this little thoroughbred who I could see was really broken. There was just a deep sadness in his eyes - I know that sounds ridiculous - but he just gave off such a sad vibe. I tried riding him and he was explosive - nothing nasty but a typical highly strung thoroughbred. My heart was breaking all over again for this little horse, he had been done such a disservice by his seller who just wanted shot of him, she didn't care whose lives she wrecked along the way - mine or his.

We moved to Scotland and I felt him breathe a huge sigh of relief when he came off the lorry after two days and two nights of travelling. He rested his head on my shoulder as if to say ''oh good, your still here''. I think he has been passed from pillar to post since he left racing 4 years ago. He has had no stability, no person to love and it has made him very distant, understandably.

Now here comes the bit that I will be slated for. I do not feel I can keep him. He is not doing my other horse any good and I am not willing to sacrifice his happiness (he is an ex GP horse that I have had for near on 4 yrs now and he is totally retired). Scotland was supposed to be where he could really enjoy his well earned retirement but this little horse is stressing him out no matter what I do with them.

In addition to this, I feel 1000 miles away from him. We have no connection, it just feels like dead space between us. I don't enjoy riding him (not his fault) but it is just wrong and it is making me, and him miserable. I have horses as a hobby and work incredibly hard to pay for them and I just feel like I'm paying for something that makes me stressed and upset at the moment.

I have advertised him VERY honestly online in an attempt to find him a forever home who understands him but, as expected, people just aren't in the market for this kind of challenge. I will not advertise him for free as I care where he goes, I want to look at the home and I want to make sure this would be a home for life for him.

A friend said to me a few days ago that she feels I would be better having him PTS. He has so many behavioural niggles and everyone who meets him just says he is an unhappy, stressed out horse. I have had a behaviourist look at him who feels it is ingrained behaviour that nobody could ever correct, you can only maintain them in a way that makes their life manageable. But, is that a life? Turning yourself inside out everytime a horse leaves the barn...never really relaxing and grazing because your too busy pacing, worrying about life...I'm now starting to think that it may be a better option - he can go in a quiet place, at least with someone he knows beside him. But it just feels wrong putting down an essentially ''healthy'' horse....although he isn't healthy at all mentally.

I'm now lost at what the best thing for him is. He copes so badly with change that I feel like selling him would just be exacerbating the problem and passing it on to someone else. At least if he is PTS I can guarantee him no suffering and no more stress.

Please, please do not make this any harder than it is for me. I'd appreciate opinions but not criticism. Sometimes I feel I have to separate head and heart.

 

[LaurenBay]

I am sorry you are in this situation. I would not judge you for putting him to sleep. It doesn't sound like he is happy at all.

 

[AdorableAlice]

You are the best owner any horse could want for. The TB is lucky he landed with you and in turn you can ensure the last gesture of kindness to him.

 

[Merrymoles]

We all make mistakes some times, especially when we are emotional. And some times we just don't click with a horse. How long have you had him?

It is hard to give an opinion without knowing a bit more about him. If he is a good ride, I am sure you could sell him and a different yard or a different companion might prove the making of him. I agree that you should not advertise him as free but make it clear you are flexible on price for the right home.

I am not against PTS in some circumstances but would like to know more about how long he's had to settle, what he is like to handle and ride generally etc.

 

[touchstone]

My heart is breaking for your poor horse, in my view pts would be ending his suffering, emotional pain can be as severe as any physical pain and to be constantly stressed and unhappy isn't a good life for him and he is at risk of ending up far worse off with the wrong person and life being even more miserable for him.

I definitely wouldn't sell him, he needs to find peace god love him.

 

[Pippity]

I'm definitely not opposed to PTS for behavioural reasons, but I do feel you might be a bit premature. If you got him in late July, you've had him for around two months, and he's had two yard moves during that time, including a long journey. I've known many horses who would take a lot longer than that to settle.

 

[lucy108]

I have only had him for just over two months now...he has settled with me and he knows me and my other horse but you know when you feel there is only so far they can settle? One day I think we'll be making progress and then the next day it's just back to square one.

He is a poppet to ride but there is a lot of teeth and bit grinding which tells me he isn't all that happy - I have had everything checked and we're good to go in that respect but even out on a hack he just worries about everything and gets himself stressed out over the smallest things. I try and reassure him and give him a nice lose rein, I just want him to enjoy himself...I've even tried walking in hand with him thinking that time away from the stable and field will help him relax and enjoy life but to no avail.

I have been totally flexible on price and have spoken to so many people, none of which I felt is right for him. I also don't like people who try and bargain to heavily with me as it makes me question if they can indeed afford to look after them.

I'm just so heartbroken for him, no horse deserves this.

 

[catembi]

Yeah, my three are all being PITAs atm, possibly due to moving to my home. One I've had for nearly 3 years and the other two are new. I could happily strangle all of them atm, so feel your pain!

Have you tried a calmer, and/or some lungeing to get rid of some excess energy & give him a routine & something to do? I am going to try both myself. I wish everyone (I mean my horses, not the lovely people on here!) would just wind their necks in!

 

[lucy108]

Yeah, my three are all being PITAs atm, possibly due to moving to my home. One I've had for nearly 3 years and the other two are new. I could happily strangle all of them atm, so feel your pain!

Have you tried a calmer, and/or some lungeing to get rid of some excess energy & give him a routine & something to do? I am going to try both myself. I wish everyone (I mean my horses, not the lovely people on here!) would just wind their necks in!

He isn't at all a PITA, I'm just so worried about him.

I have tried calmer (I don't mean you £20 from the tack shop, I'm talking proper tried, tested, vet recommended calmers) but they either don't work or he comes out the other side even worse. He has a very rigid routine which I do my best to stick to (within reason with a busy life!). I've tried giving him a job, riding, working in the arena but no matter what I do with this little guy he just doesn't seem happy.

 

[SpringArising]

There might be someone out there who could give him a life that would work for him - in a stable herd with minimal change of dynamic. Equally, he might be a horse who becomes more relaxed if he has the *******s worked off him every day (have just had one of those, sold him to a pro).

I wouldn't judge you for putting him to sleep, but I know that it's so hard to make the decision to put down a physically healthy horse.

I think if you don't have the time to put into him and you don't want to keep him then PTS is obviously the only option left.

One thing I will say is that I think his ad focused too much on his negatives and am I right in thinking he was up for 2k?

 

[lucy108]

I'm definitely not opposed to PTS for behavioural reasons, but I do feel you might be a bit premature. If you got him in late July, you've had him for around two months, and he's had two yard moves during that time, including a long journey. I've known many horses who would take a lot longer than that to settle.

The problem is that I can see what he is capable of. Yes, he may settle further but he is never going to settle to the point that this behaviour just vanishes. He is in a quiet yard with plenty of turnout, a huge stable and lovely friends. He has settled a lot since I got him, however, I don't feel a lot more progress is going to be made...maybe I'm wrong.

 

[paddi22]

Mt tb used to absolutely melt when i first got him, we had to move yards three times because of moving house, and it was really only when he was out 24/7 in a herd in the third yard that he settled. Two months isn't a lot of time, and they can be sensitive horses. If he was mine i'd stick him out for a few months on grass if budget allowed it, and then look at him down the line. I was totally in the same boa as you before I moved house, and it it was such a relief to just find cheap grass livery and let him off with no pressure on either of us. He came back a diferent horse. Also Would it be worth working an natural horseman style trainer to just give the horse a chance so you can say you tried? I got a rescue exracer loon in for retraining, and two sessions with a good trainer worked wonders, i had a completely different horse.

My thinking would be that while you (completely understably!) not in a good place, you DID take over responsibility for the horse, and saying it 'looks unhappy' isn't a strong enough reason to PTS after two months and a lot of changes. I have a few rescues in who I thought might be lost causes, and it usually IS a case of two steps forward, one step back, like you say.

usually if a horse is a nice character and has no physcial issues, they come right with a bit of time. If he's relatively safe to ride and just a bit unsure then that's not the end of the world. Sometimes they just need to settle with you and learn to trust you. TBs can be very soft souls at times! Are you used to riding tbs?

 

[lucy108]

There might be someone out there who could give him a life that would work for him - in a stable herd with minimal change of dynamic. Equally, he might be a horse who becomes more relaxed if he has the *******s worked off him every day (have just had one of those, sold him to a pro).

I wouldn't judge you for putting him to sleep, but I know that it's so hard to make the decision to put down a physically healthy horse.

I think if you don't have the time to put into him and you don't want to keep him then PTS is obviously the only option left.

One thing I will say is that I think his ad focused too much on his negatives and am I right in thinking he was up for 2k?

It's very hard to find someone offering that life...I have tried.

I originally advertised him for 2k as a riding horse. In fairness, when he works well he is worth that. I wrote his advert very honestly as I didn't want it coming back to bite me. I just didn't want 1000 people coming to look at him based on his looks, as he does look the part.

 

[Sheep]

Firstly I am sorry about the loss of your horse and I'm sorry to hear your new one is causing you additional heartbreak.
This will sound daft and very basic but worth mentioning I guess.
I once had an ex-racer on loan. When I moved him to the yard I was on at the time, I thought he would be happier with a stable with a view of the yard, thinking he was probably used to a busy yard. He was a complete and utter nightmare. I moved him into an internal stable, and he was like a different horse. Could it be worth tweaking some of his management to see if it makes a difference?

I am sorry you are facing this, it doesn't sound like either decision will be wrong.

 

[catembi]

My ex-racer is in a retirement livery atm. He was barefoot already, and is turned out in a large area with a herd. It costs me £195/month which covers food, feet etc. I had actually booked PTS as he was being totally awful in livery (my house purchase fell through so everyone was homeless for a bit), but then I was v lucky to find him a place in ret livery & he seems happy enough. Might be an option?

 

[Merrymoles]

I have only had him for just over two months now...he has settled with me and he knows me and my other horse but you know when you feel there is only so far they can settle? One day I think we'll be making progress and then the next day it's just back to square one.

He is a poppet to ride but there is a lot of teeth and bit grinding which tells me he isn't all that happy - I have had everything checked and we're good to go in that respect but even out on a hack he just worries about everything and gets himself stressed out over the smallest things. I try and reassure him and give him a nice lose rein, I just want him to enjoy himself...I've even tried walking in hand with him thinking that time away from the stable and field will help him relax and enjoy life but to no avail.

I have been totally flexible on price and have spoken to so many people, none of which I felt is right for him. I also don't like people who try and bargain to heavily with me as it makes me question if they can indeed afford to look after them.

I'm just so heartbroken for him, no horse deserves this.

I'm afraid that gives me a different perspective on it as that is no time at all for him to settle. My horse had four homes in just over a year before I bought him, then two yard moves in his first year with me. It took him ages (probably two years or more) to settle and to understand his place in the world. He is still quite nervous six years on and still has a number of real stress points (clippers, wormers, legs, settling in a trailer before we set off, strange people in the field to name just a few) but I cannot believe how far we have come in terms of his overall "happiness" and willingness to trust me to do right.

I am quite sure that many people thought I had made a big mistake when I bought him - he jumped out of his stable twice wearing a turnout, destroyed a top door guard, reared in hand when scared (which he still did when I tried to worm him last week) and was a ferocious biter.

But I could not be happier that I stuck with him as he gives me so much joy in so many ways now, not least in seeing how far he has come in terms of his own well-being. We lacked any "connection" in the early years but now we know each other inside out.


For that reason, I am more inclined to think that maybe you are just wrong for each other and he might well settle in time with a different person.

 

[conniegirl]

I am not against PTS for behavioral issues however two months is no time at all to settle, particularly as he has had a second yard move in that time.
I had a very stressy one come over from Ireland, It took him 6 months to settle properly, but after those 6 months the panicing when anything was taken away stopped and whilst he still occasionally paces the fence if his companion is taken away he is fine with others being taken away.

I would try getting him in a good consistent routine, give him several more months, maybe work with a behaviorist over his separation anxiety (I can PM you the name of one I have had success with in the past if you like.) and try some supplements.


I do think 2 months of ownership is too early for a PTS decision particularly if he is not dangerous.

 

[touchstone]

If you fel that you may be wrong about him settling further, then why not set yourself a time limit and see how he is after that and then make any decisions?

I had a mare that had the most wonderful temperament, but it was only with hindsight that I could see that it took her around a year to feel totally comfortable and happy in her home, it was a big change for her, and if they are sensitive then moves and changes can take some getting over. I'd honestly have no qualms about pts if he is still unhappy after say another three months; it depends if you are able to last that long.

 

[honetpot]

You are the best owner any horse could want for. The TB is lucky he landed with you and in turn you can ensure the last gesture of kindness to him.

I recently bought back a pony I sold as a youngster. He has got a good competitive record, showing,ODE, is good to handle and apart from having PMS now, he is eighteen he has no health problems. He can throw a buck and if he doesn't get his own way he will try his luck. He had four homes in the last two years, that's why I bought him back for not a lot of money, off yet another advert for him on Preloved.
If you have any doubts I would have him PTS. I have come to the conclusion their are very few people now that can be bothered putting in the time or understanding that something at bit difficult requires. You at least have given him a chance.
I have one more youngster to sell, beautifully bred and a lovely person, if I find him on Preloved in 10years time a wreck I will be heartbroken.

 

[paddi22]

Also stuff like the teeth grinding or tail switching can be down to bitting/contact issues, or just a nervy habit they get out of when they settle. One of my old tbs had a copper roller bit and he used to play with the centre rolly bit constantly when he was unsure of something, he grew out of the habit and we changed bits and there was no issue anymore.

Also did you get a physio or osteo out? they could be a slight soreness issue anywhere, or saddle fit catching him somewhere.

It does slightly comes across like you are writing a narrative story about a miserable sad horse who doesn't want to live anymore. And I totally understand how you might do this to make it mentally easier for you if you have to PTS (which i totally understand). But if you step back and take the emotion out of it, what you have is a grieving owner who made a snap decision, a horse who has been passed from pillar to post and probably needs rebreaking to understand its new job. And a horse who, naturally, is tense and unsettled because its been moved a few times and has a new owner who it probably senses isn't 100% there for him. You need to stop worrying about whether you bond or have a connection. the reality is you have responsibility for this horse and have to do right by him. Either turn away for a bit or get a pro rider to have a look before you make a decision to PTS. At leats then you can know you tried everything.

He mightn't even be the right horse for you, but he doesn't sound like a lost cause. Coudl you send him to a pro to ride and then resell. I'm wondering if the ad was too negative. We get tbs in and I don't blink at them being stressy or highly strung when they arrive. Im sure theres other tb owners out there who might see the potential.

 

[DD]

The best thing to do IMO is whatever is best for the horse.

 

[Clodagh]

If you want to pts, and it sounds like you do, then go and do it. It is entirely up to you, seeking absolution on here is not the answer. I don't mean that nastily at all.
I would treat him for ulcers, you don't need vet prescribed gastroguard, and give him the winter to settle, but that is just mo and you can do what you feel is best for you

 

[lucy108]

I completely understand that most people are drawing the consensus that I am an irresponsible owner who pretty much wants to kill this horse. Not the case at all, but I do understand why people think that. Thank you for your replies (I can't now delete the thread but don't feel I need anymore responses).

Just to clear the air...I am not saying I am having him PTS, it was just a suggestion that was made to me. It is 1000% a LAST RESORT but I refuse to sacrifice my happiness, my other horses happiness for this horse - that wouldn't be fair on all other parties involved. Equally, I am not going to end his life just because he's 'a bit stressy'.

Again, I understand you probably all think I'm a horrific human being but I just wanted to gauge opinions.

Good to see the self righteous, judgemental, superior equine community is still alive and kicking!

 

[Antw23uk]

I completely understand that most people are drawing the consensus that I am an irresponsible owner who pretty much wants to kill this horse. Not the case at all, but I do understand why people think that. Thank you for your replies (I can't now delete the thread but don't feel I need anymore responses).

Just to clear the air...I am not saying I am having him PTS, it was just a suggestion that was made to me. It is 1000% a LAST RESORT but I refuse to sacrifice my happiness, my other horses happiness for this horse - that wouldn't be fair on all other parties involved. Equally, I am not going to end his life just because he's 'a bit stressy'.

Again, I understand you probably all think I'm a horrific human being but I just wanted to gauge opinions.

Good to see the self righteous, judgemental, superior equine community is still alive and kicking!

Oh stop being such a drama queen, I thought I was reading some depressing novel when i started reading this post and you had my sympathy! What did you expect people to say? you have had every answer possible and now you dont like it? Work with the horse, sell the horse or shoot the horse. You are its owner and it is your decision!

 

[paddi22]

It's a really sensitive topic but id agree you are being a bit drama queeny too, and it's natural to be touchy about it. No-one thinks you are a horrible person killing horses, most people have been in the same boat with a horse at some stage or another, so i totally empathise. I have gotten horses in and banged my head off walls wondering what to do about some of the trickier ones. Theres one horse i adored who i retired for a few years to grass, but he kept getting abcesses non stop, costing me a fortune on polutices and box rest and stuff, so i made the decision to give him a nice summer in field and then PTS. Realistically I could have probably changed his routine, or feed, or spent money analysing why he kept getting abcesses, or just coping with it - but at the the end of the day I just accepted I had limited time and budget, i had done right with him otherwise and i made th call to PTS and I'm glad I did.

I'm sure people I know were horrified as they know technically I could have kept him going if I wanted, but at the end of the day you have to make the call thats right for you, your budget and your lifestyle set up. So personally, Im not being judgey on you at all, I'm just saying, from my experiences of getting tbs in that 2 months is no time at all to get used to a new horse, so not to make a decision too fast.

 

[Scarlett]

As others have said I too am in now way against having horses PTS for behavioural faults however, after just 2 months, this sounds premature.

You bought the wrong horse and I see you admit that, but that's not his fault and he may not have the same issues with another owner.

When you say you've had everything checked - what exactly and by who? Full vet work up?

To advertise him at 2k to try and sell him makes it sound like you either do think he's worth something or that you are over exaggerating his behaviour.

You've had him 2 months and in that you've moved a long distance. What's his routine? Is he in regular work? What's he fed?

Have you scoped for ulcers?

Autumn grass flush is making my TB's nuts at the mo. Mineral imbalances in the grass can cause havoc. As can certain feeds (alfalfa for mine)

I have 3 Tb's, they are sensitive but if I had one behaving like that I would be looking for a cause, it's rare they act like that for no reason. Poor Boy.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I completely understand that most people are drawing the consensus that I am an irresponsible owner who pretty much wants to kill this horse. Not the case at all, but I do understand why people think that. Thank you for your replies (I can't now delete the thread but don't feel I need anymore responses).

Again, I understand you probably all think I'm a horrific human being but I just wanted to gauge opinions.

Good to see the self righteous, judgemental, superior equine community is still alive and kicking!

I haven't seen any replies that suggest any of that. No-one has said or implied you are irresponsible, a horrific human being etc etc. I am so sorry you feel that way but you are seeing blame and judgement in replies that simply aren't there which is probably because you are grieving, unhappy, anxious, stressed and at the end of your tether. Which makes perfect sense given what you are going through.

Good luck with whatever you decide. It is clear you are doing everything you can to do the right thing by him.

 

[Antw23uk]

I haven't seen any replies that suggest any of that. No-one has said or implied you are irresponsible, a horrific human being etc etc. I am so sorry you feel that way but you are seeing blame and judgement in replies that simply aren't there which is probably because you are grieving, unhappy, anxious, stressed and at the end of your tether. Which makes perfect sense given what you are going through.

Good luck with whatever you decide. It is clear you are doing everything you can to do the right thing by him.

See now you put it so much better that I do

 

[paddi22]

I haven't seen any replies that suggest any of that. No-one has said or implied you are irresponsible, a horrific human being etc etc. I am so sorry you feel that way but you are seeing blame and judgement in replies that simply aren't there which is probably because you are grieving, unhappy, anxious, stressed and at the end of your tether. Which makes perfect sense given what you are going through.

Good luck with whatever you decide. It is clear you are doing everything you can to do the right thing by him.

perfectly explained!

 

[ester]

I think it also depends on your financial situation. Given the amount of change he has had I also think to make the decision now would likely be a bit premature for me to be happy (if it were me) to PTS. If you are happy and able to keep him as an 'extra' then it would be interesting to see how he coped in a retirement livery-type situation.

Oh I took a break while typing, it seems things had moved on, though I'm not entirely sure why I thought all the responses were measured and reasonable and this is certainly not a forum where PTS when required would ever be frowned upon.