Selling a horse due to a livery debt!

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Horsey_Gal

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Just phoned up about a horse for sale - livery yard owner is selling this horse as a livery debt therefore doesn't know much about the horse!
It is booked in to go to the sales on Sat if not sold before hand
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The owner sounded as though she couldn't care less where the horse went!

It is up for £850 on the internet - surely it wouldn't reach this sort of money @ sales? thinking of making her an offer as can't bare for horses to go to the sales
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[ QUOTE ]
The owner sounded as though she couldn't care less where the horse went!

It is up for £850 on the internet - surely it wouldn't reach this sort of money @ sales? thinking of making her an offer as can't bare for horses to go to the sales
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Can I ask Horsey_Gal

Where in the country is it for sale, is it(Notts)? What colour is it?
 
My friend bought a pony that was a debt. Ex owner left her in the field and paid no rent for 6 months so YO sold her at the cost of the field livery. My friend got a bargain little pony.

Offer the YO less for the horse if you want it. Will save her the bother of taking it to the sales.
 
I bought my lovely coloured this way - the livery owner was only concerned about making sufficient money to clear the debt - I got a bargain and have been very lucky indeed. Livery owner was very decent and helpful - she had only had the horse for a short time for schooling so knew v little, it was a bank holiday so no vet available and he was booked to go to the sport horse sale first thing Tuesday - I made an offer and paid cash and collected him on the Sunday. If you like the horse - go for it!
 
A horse I was looking after/riding got "taken" by the yard as the owner didn't pay livery fees, horse was sold for a mere £500 - to someone on the yard, bargain! A 16.3hh TB gelding, lovely he was.
 
Always thought as horse classed as someones property you couldn't just sell to clear debt,had to go down legal route unless agreed in a contract beforehand.
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I bought my gelding nearly 6 years ago when the woman who had him on loan was not paying the livery. The yard owner was treating the horse badly so I felt a moral obligation to him. His owner could not clear the debt incurred by the horse borrower so I bought him and the yard owner made a profit. So glad I did as I am so in love with him! There is a situation at our yard currently, that could end like this.
 
I see the add also that your on about would imagine they will be taking it to melton sales this saturday? I have seen two there before for sale stating that they was livery debts poor things! If you like the sound of the horse go for it if you have the money to as the poor horse could end up anywhere going there.
 
In Canada this is known as the Innkeepers Act.

By Law, after just two weeks after an overdue payment is due, the YO can put an announcement in the local paper that so and so horse, belonging to **** will be auctioned at so and so market to clear a debt.

I have done this myself, after doing the polite phone calls, letters etc and getting absolutely nowhere. I sold the horse for enough to cover my costs and fees owed and sent the owner a cheque for the remainder....about $25!
 
Yes, YO has booked it in at Melton sales
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I think £850 is a little steep considering she doesn't know anything about the horse!
 
I agree with what you say horsey_Gal - she couldn't care less - i phoned about said horse this afternoon as felt sorry for it!
 
When i have been to melton started to go a fair bit a while back because i was desperate to rescue anything but didn't in the end as everything seemed to sell for a good price when i have been the larger horses do seem to sell for itleast £600 plus but i haven't been for a while now as i dont need anymore ponies and its only tempting there.
 
when i spoke to a lawer regarding this i was told you can only sell a horse this way if you have increased the horses value, ie horses in training of any kind and that in return for debt payment on straight livery that this was actually a grey area.
 
we got a lovely arab for my friend last year through the same circumstances. One way to pick up a good horse cheaply. The owner can't do anything as the yard owner is well within their rights to recoup their money.

I think we could all learn from this.
 
The YO cannot sell the horse without a passport. If I were the owner I wouldn't hand it over. The YO would then sue for the debt.
 
I would be a bit careful. The position is legally complex. You can in some cases exercise a "lien" on a horse to satisfy a debt, but you must have either a common law lien or a contractual one. Even then, it it advisable for the person with the potential lien to obtain judgment in court and then exercise the lien to satisfy the judgment. Liens can usually only be obtained where you have put something into the item -i.e. where a garage has fixed your car and put new parts into it. they have a lien because they still own the parts because you haven't paid for them. If they sell, they retain what is owing and then send you the balance. With horses, if you "improve" them, there is a potential argument to say that you own the "improved" bit, hence the lien, but it is complex. Get it wrong and you run the risk of being liable in conversion, which is a bit like theft. Is ok until someone kicks up a fuss.
 
A yard i was at in the past had this situation and it was our understanding then that the only way that the horse could legally be sold was if the YO was schooling it (improving it in some way). As Cariad said its complicated so be careful.
 
Unless the YO has a lien on the horse, she doesn't have title to it, and is unable to give title.

Although this happens and horses are sold to pay debts, they only get away with it, it's not a legal right. They should return the horse to the legal owner and sue for money owed.

Trust me, I got burned, bought a horse that had been sold to pay a debt, owner came and snatched her back 10 months later (I wasn't aware of the history, I was 2nd buyer) having had an ex party hearing in which she told the judge that I had actually personally stolen her horse, she was given the benefit of the doubt and horse was returned to her pending a hearing - she came with court baliffs and took her out of the blue, I'd no idea what was going on.

It took over 2 years and thousands of pounds to get her back, and the only reason I won was because she'd gone through Southall which had a charter that did in fact give title once she'd gone through the ring. Had she not gone through the ring, at southall, I'd have lost her.

Having battled through the courts, I'd never touch a debt horse again.
 
I only know of two cases.
Florin was abandoned on a livery yard but the owner went contacted by th yo handed her over and then was sold.
I know of another yo who did it through the courts.
I know its done but have no idea of legalities. If it were me i would ask legal advice to save heartbreak.
 
I'd forgotten about the "charter markets"! I think they've been abolished now, but would need to check. As has been said, if you don't own the horse, either having been given it as a gift, or bought it or whatever, then you don't have "title" to it and although you might in reality sell it, you can't pass that title on, as you don't have it,so the buyer doesn't own it either and so on down the line. If this happens, ownership always remains with the original owner, who can take the horse back at any time, leaving the "owner" out of pocket. I wouldn't touch it myself if you know the situation.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The YO cannot sell the horse without a passport. If I were the owner I wouldn't hand it over. The YO would then sue for the debt.

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thats what i was thinking, if the owner has the passport then legally it is not the YO to sell. perhaps she has a clause in her livery contract stating she can sell if livery not paid. do you not have to have a passport to put through the sales??
 
Passports do not prove ownership and as the YO the passports should be with the horse incase of medical treatment.
Like i said i checked on this ,beings as i have been that person owed money for a training livery. As i had an agreement in writting i was able to prove the increase in value due to it being unbroken on arrival and then having won a lot of classes on it .
I still was only entitled to the increase in value i had put on it as i 'owned that work but it is a grey area and one all YO would do well to take advise on .
 
Totally legal and she could also put up a notice of abandonment and send copy to owner and if nothing done and settled completely legal to sell to recover costs.
It's a shame it has to come to this but she has to recover her costs somehow.
 
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