Selling a horse with arthritis

[ycbm]

I think the key is that the horse is only sold to the right person. If the right person doesn't come, then it has to be PTS or keep. I would rather PTS than sell to the wrong home.

It's so difficult to know if people are the right home though, Red.

I was sold a horse for £1 who was given on permanent loan as light hack to a forum member, who subsequently sold him at full price as a show jumper on the strength of his breeding. He was rescued, lame, after he was spotted on Facebook.

I sold a horse with hock arthritis to a woman from whom I took references who had an immaculate yard and she starved my horse to skin and bone in 16 weeks and I bought him back for more money after a concerned person alerted me.

I will never loan another who I can't check on once a week. I will never sell a horse like this one.
.

 

[Lipglosspukka]

I would loan the horse out however be prepared to pay for any subsequent vet treatment relating to the arthritis.

The horse market is so barking atm that I'm sure you will get plenty of interest by someone who just wants something to fuss and do some hacking with.

I personally wouldn't be completely put off buying a horse like this, I wouldn't want to pay more than a token gesture mind you, however for the horses sake I would loan.

 

[teddypops]

This is why there are so many dodgy dealers selling broken horses, because people won’t take responsibility for their own horse. I don’t think your horse is sellable so if you can’t loan it or keep it, pts or before you know it there will be a post on here saying they bought a horse from a dealer and it’s crippled.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Honest answer and I’m sorry if offends anyone. I have a 13 yr old Connie with hock arthritis and wouldn’t even consider selling him. My horse, my responsibility and if it gets to much I will have him PTS. I could not nor would I ever sell him.

Sometimes owners need to man up and be there for their horses.

I have a horse that has low grade arthritis in his hocks and navicular I would never sell him or loan him.. His with me for life I love him that's fortunate, but if I I had a horse land in my lap like that I pts no questions asked, I couldn't have it on my conscience to know that horse could still suffer.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Pearlasinger and Amymay - thank you! I was gob smacked to be honest!

I just want to make it clear that I am not selling her because of the arthritis! Quite the opposite, if I could find a way to keep her I would!

Sorry you are selling her she has arthritis she probably won't pass a vetting?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have had wine tonight sorry!

 

[Jellymoon]

Hhhmn, I’m also shocked by some of these posts OP...very quick to say PTS...I think if you are honest and vet homes very thoroughly you could find her a nice hacking/low level comp home. I have sold such a horse myself, with great success, a lovely home for life, and I have a friend who has bought several older schoolmaster ponies and now horses for her kids which had some disclosed physical issues she was prepared to deal with. Of course it’s possible some dodgy person could buy her, bute her, and then sell her for more money...but that’s up to you to not sell her to a dodgy person. Do your homework, get references, don’t totally undervalue her. If the vet thinks she’s still capable to low level dressage/jumping/hacking then she has a value.

 

[Frumpoon]

Is this a proven jumping horse?

 

[teddypops]

Hhhmn, I’m also shocked by some of these posts OP...very quick to say PTS...I think if you are honest and vet homes very thoroughly you could find her a nice hacking/low level comp home. I have sold such a horse myself, with great success, a lovely home for life, and I have a friend who has bought several older schoolmaster ponies and now horses for her kids which had some disclosed physical issues she was prepared to deal with. Of course it’s possible some dodgy person could buy her, bute her, and then sell her for more money...but that’s up to you to not sell her to a dodgy person. Do your homework, get references, don’t totally undervalue her. If the vet thinks she’s still capable to low level dressage/jumping/hacking then she has a value.

What amount do you think a quirky 17hh horse who broncs on the road, has arthritis which has recently been medicated with no indication if it has been successful is worth?

 

[SO1]

I think you find it hard to sell a quirky horse with a progressive degenerative health condition if you disclose the problem.

Normally the sort of person who may take a punt on this sort of horse would do so because they want to some gentle hacking on safe steady horse but if your horse is a bit sharp or tricky then you are unlikely to find someone sensible and knowledgeable who will take her. A dealer may take her with a view to selling on without disclosing her issues but then you are just passing the problem on to some unsuspecting person which is not very fair.

I think if you can't afford to keep her anymore then your options are really loaning and then knowing that at some point she may need medicating again or the medication won't work and she will no longer be suitable as ridden horse and may get returned to you or trying to sell her to someone who is inexperienced, wanting a cheap horse and who does not understand the long term implications of the arthritis hoping that they will fall in love with her and still care for her if she gets much worse quickly, or perhaps someone who has their own land and can turn her away in a few years if she needs to be retired but in the meantime have a cheap horse to do low level RC activities understanding the risk.

It may that if you did loan out in a few years time if she did get returned to your situation maybe different and you may be able to afford to retire her.

How will you advertise her to appeal to people? What are her good qualities that would outweigh the arthritic problems. I presume she would pass the vet if she is 100% sound and not lame and you did not tell the vetting vet about her diagnosis.

 

[SO1]

I think the problem here is that she is not a schoolmaster horse or pony suitable for kids or novices she is a big quirky warmblood who needs a confident rider, not a happy hacker. Sounds very different from the horses and ponies you mention, schoolmaster ponies and horses suitable for kids and novices are like gold dust and people will accept a few physical issues.

I do feel very sorry for the OP, difficult situation to be in.

Hhhmn, I’m also shocked by some of these posts OP...very quick to say PTS...I think if you are honest and vet homes very thoroughly you could find her a nice hacking/low level comp home. I have sold such a horse myself, with great success, a lovely home for life, and I have a friend who has bought several older schoolmaster ponies and now horses for her kids which had some disclosed physical issues she was prepared to deal with. Of course it’s possible some dodgy person could buy her, bute her, and then sell her for more money...but that’s up to you to not sell her to a dodgy person. Do your homework, get references, don’t totally undervalue her. If the vet thinks she’s still capable to low level dressage/jumping/hacking then she has a value.

 

[Kahlua]

I have known people to buy quirky horses with degenerative arthritis as they were schoolmasters (PSG or above), were a low grade when purchased and buyers had the means to keep up with injections, body work etc etc to keep the horse comfortable until retirement a few years down the track.

However, none of these horses bronc’d. They were quirky yes, but safe. I think there are a few fundamental issues here OP that would make me really worried for your horse if you sold it. I would almost guarantee it would end up passed through dealers, drugged up and so on and on.

Personally I couldn’t sell, but I appreciate you’re in a bind where you can no longer keep the horse. If you’re not willing or able to loan the horse out, the kindest thing may well be PTS. What a tough decision for you either way.

 

[Winters100]

You said that the change in circumstances affects the time that you have available, so if it does not affect your finances could you afford to send to retirement livery? Or maybe to keep the horse where she is, you pay costs of keeping her, and let someone who wants to hack have her for free in return for taking care?

Honestly selling this horse would not sit well with me if it were mine. The risks of being passed on to unsuitable homes are just too great. I am also sorry to say that in terms of sale value to me it is 0. If this were a schoolmistress who could hack out with anyone from your young child to your grandma it would be different, but generally riders who don't mind something a bit sharp and quirky are looking to do a bit more than pottering around the lanes. Even if the horse can do low level dressage now this is not going to go on forever. It is true that most horses of this age have arthritis to some degree, but this has got to the level of causing behavioural problems and needing medication, so the future is very unknown.

I am really sorry to give this opinion, as I believe that you might be in a difficult spot and want to do right by the horse. I had a similar situation some years ago and I am afraid that I just took the view that the horse would be retired as long as he was sound enough to enjoy his life, and that he would not leave my hands alive. At least in having him PTS at home we knew that he did not suffer a worse fate of being asked to do things that were painful for him.

 

[fankino04]

Thanks all for your honest opinions. If I’m honest I’m quite shocked but also glad I asked.

I cannot in good conscience put her to sleep, she is not lame and is happy and otherwise healthy. Yes she is quirky but that was part of the reason I bought her and is part of her character.

I’ve had her a very long time and only want what is best for her. I’m interested that people have said loan rather than sell as I felt that she could get passed back and forth with loaning and so long as I sold to the right person then they would be more invested in her. I appreciate that is easier said than done but I would not just sell her to anybody.

As others have said it could take a very long time to find the "right" home for a horse like this, you might find what you think is the right home only for things to go wrong and they then sell her on to whoever which may or may not be a good home. Horses get harder to sell when they get old and more ailments, if the first home has her for say 5 years and it's a problem free 5 years they MAY be invested enough and in a financial position to retire her when she is no longer up to the job but that's a big if, they may try to find her a great home as they can't keep a retired horse either but maybe that goes wrong and the buyer is dishonest and it's your poor horse that suffers. I appreciate you think a loaner may be less invested but I think if you love a horse you love a horse whether it's legally yours or not, I certainly felt my loan pony was MINE. The benefit of a local loan is that if the partnership breaks down and they don't want her anymore, she gets worse and can't be ridden and they can't afford to retire her ( some loan homes will love their horse enough to keep it in retirement), their finances change and they can't keep her etc then at least you know she comes back to you and is safe, even if that means PTS then if you can't keep her and she's not rideable anymore.

 

[scats]

Unfortunately, it’s through selling horses like this that they end up in bin end dealers yards. If you can’t keep the horse or find a loan home that you can monitor closely, then I would be putting her to sleep.

 

[Flicker]

So... I did sell a horse with hock arthritis many years ago. For £200 and to someone from our local vets who was looking for a companion and light hack. She keeps her in a field about 5 miles from me and has had her for the better part of 10 years now. I still get photos of her and a local farrier keeps me entertained with stories of how naughty she still is even at 20-odd.

I was incredibly fortunate that this situation presented itself to me. Had it not, she probably would have gone to a retirement livery yard up the road to live out the rest of her days in genteel retirement.

OP, in your situation I do agree with the other posters that the welfare of your mare should guide your next decisions regarding what you do with her. If she is sound to work with medication then a loan arrangement is probably your best bet. Long term loans can be really rewarding for both parties and will give you the control to ensure she has everything she needs.

I note your reluctance to put to sleep and it does seem quite drastic at this stage of her life when she is not in obvious pain. There are worse outcomes for animals than a quick, painless, dignified death, but do appreciate this may not be an avenue you want to explore at the moment. The other option then may be to find a retirement livery arrangement for her or investigate the blood bank perhaps?

 

[LEC]

Hi all, I’m looking to sell my 13yo mare but unfortunately she has recently been diagnosed with low grade arthritis in her neck and hocks which have been medicated with steroids. She’s had x rays and no signs of neurological issues and also had her hind legs scanned and no issues there. The arthritis can be managed and she has never gone lame from it but obviously it is a degenerative condition and there is no way to determine how quickly or badly it will get worse.
My question is, how do you think this will affect my ability to sell her and also her price? (Home is more important to me than price but still interested in answers!)
Thanks in advance!

It will impact price - I sold an insurance write off horse with hock arthritis as wasn’t going to do the job I wanted at novice level eventing. I sold him at 12 as a horse who knew his job but a sport horse so had his moments. Full disclosure and priced accordingly as was a £6k horse for £1600.

The phone didn’t stop ringing for him. I found the perfect home for him and they love him to bits 10 years on. Still going strong now at 22 with the much easier life having kept him going longer.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Of course it’s possible some dodgy person could buy her, bute her, and then sell her for more money...but that’s up to you to not sell her to a dodgy person

There are lots of dodgy people out there who talk the talk, promise a home for life, yada yada, they buy a lame/quirky horse cheap, bute it/dope it and sell on.

It's very common.

Got a lame quirky horse that you can't keep? Loan (but be careful going that route) or PTS.

 

[paddi22]

once the horse goes out of your hands though you have no control over where it ends up. vetted lovely homes STILL sell on due to illness/change in circumstances.

for a horse like this to have a safe life you'd really need to hit the jackpot with the perfect buyer and the odds are low. you need someone sensible who is a confident competent rider but yet still just wants to potter and do less and less as the horse ages. but is also knowledgable and wealthy enough to spend the cash on treatments, constant supplements and vets when needed. and also they are aware that retirement at a young age could be possible and is still happy to know they could paying retirement livery for years or have a field ornament at home. that's a very big ask.

we rehome horses all the time for a charity, but I've a field full of quirky horses there that I ended up keeping because the odds are against a quirky horse to have a safe life. an arthritic quirky horse is an even bigger risk. realistically you could sell to someone nice who has the best of intentions. and if they don't understand correct warmup and management or can't afford the treatments then the horse is at risk. I've seen people take these horses on and something as simple as a yard with a deep arena can cause serious issues and end up with a horse downing tools and being sold on because it's labelled dangerous, nappy or unmanageable. and as someone said, the easiest option for people is often to go to a dealer and do a deal for a new horse.

it depends on your conscience and how much responsibility you want to take for the horse at the end of the day. I've total sympathy because I have one there myself I can't rehome or sell. but you have to be honest about the fact that you are selling on a problem to someone and there's no guarantee it will work for either party. if it was a quiet happy hacker or schoolmaster there'd be no issue, but it's not. at the end of the day you are in charge of a living being and you have to do what's best for that horse even if it's a tough call.

 

[TPO]

Just search on here; there are countless threads where people have sold compromised horses to the "perfect" home only for the horse to end up on a steep downward spiral, be it a loan or sold home.

Recently on here an exHHOer had it happen to them. They loaned out a horse to a friend with full disclosure and the understanding that they would ALWAYS take the horse back.

Due to the pandemic owner couldn't do the usual visits. Horse appeared online crippled lame, underweight and being ridden by an overweight/too heavy rider.

Loaner had sold the horse, somehow horse then ended up at "rescue", that is a rescue by name only, where he was very underweight and dog lame. "Rescue" posted videos of him being lunged and ridden despite being horrifically lame and underweight. They filmed themselves laughing as horse struggled and tripped over poles.

"Rescue" then sold him to a novice who was also too big/heavy for him. Horse wasnt receiving the medication that he needed that loaner hadnt disclosed when selling (stealing!) him.

Thankfully owner managed to get him back but that wasn't without extreme stress and difficulty including police and legal involvement.

OP had already said they dont want to loan because they cant take horse back.

Yes there are suitable homes out there as Red and LEC have said but the horses in both instances are different from yours. Horse in question is big and big horses cost more in feed generally speaking. Your horse isnt a schoolmaster and had shown to be extremely dangerous.

There are also ongoing costs for the management of the arthritis.

The dream home may be out there for this horse but the chances of finding it are slim in reality.

PTS may seem drastic but as has been proven time and time again via threads on here there are FAR worse fates than pts peacefully at home especially for a compromised big horse.

 

[southerncomfort]

I wondered the same as Winters. If its just a lack of time could you have someone permanent loan her from your yard? Or possibly put her on grass/retirement livery until the arthritis needs daily meds at which point you can reassess?

 

[ester]

I’m interested that people have said loan rather than sell as I felt that she could get passed back and forth with loaning and so long as I sold to the right person then they would be more invested in her. I appreciate that is easier said than done but I would not just sell her to anybody.

She is WAY more likely to get passed back/forth and around if you sell her. She sounds like a prime candidate to end up doing the rounds on the dodgy dealer circuit and that's a terrible situation for the horse.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Whilst I agree that for a quirky/dangerous to ride 17hh horse PTS is the most sensible, if not he most heartbreaking decision, it isn't always easy to go through with.

A horse that has ridden issues and owned by an owner that has lack of time rather than money would be better off being kept by owner in grass/retirement or part livery. The horse does not need to be ridden and riding should not be the be all and end all of owning a horse.

OP if you can't face PTS, and I couldn't, so I have an expensive field ornament on full livery that I see 5 days per week to pet and cuddle, then please do right by this horse and keep her as a treasured pet until she cab no longer manage with her joint pain and the PTS decision is taken out of your hands.

You've said yourself time rather than money is the issue, so it's not like you need to free up a stable or livery funds to pay for a replacement horse than can do higher level stuff that this one can't.

 

[vhf]

Thanks all for your honest opinions. If I’m honest I’m quite shocked but also glad I asked.

I’ve had her a very long time and only want what is best for her. I’m interested that people have said loan rather than sell as I felt that she could get passed back and forth with loaning and so long as I sold to the right person then they would be more invested in her. I appreciate that is easier said than done but I would not just sell her to anybody.

I have one I wanted to sell, but for various medical reasons including the possibility she could start showing arthritis, I now can't in all conscience sell her. If I can loan her I will, but I need to be sure she doesn't hit that downward spiral because it would be easy to sell her priced accordingly, only to discover her being resold for twice the price a few months down the line. While I own her, I have ultimate control over her quality of life. The moment I accept money for her I lose that, and I am not prepared to take the risk (OK, so if someone had her for years and begged to be allowed to be her owner, I might reconsider!). No matter how carefully you 'vet' a potential buyer, you can't predict what will happen in their life, nor can you be 100% sure they aren't pulling wool over your eyes, especially in today's marketplace. If you care about her, be very careful.

 

[Goldenstar]

Now that answer from you really does surprise me Goldenstar - out of interest what price tag would you put on it?

Sorry Op and everyone else as Mrs J says I would not sell the horse .
If the horse is a an easy keeper and a rock solid hack then it has some value in this market .
However I have almost such a horse on loan he’s an amazing hack with some issues that will need managing as he gets older and he would be a rosette machine at dressage up to and including elementary.
If the horse is not a good hack it has no value and you may be able to find a FOC home that route is fraught with risks for the horse .
I spend 3 k over last summer keeping Fatty comfy not many people can do that for a horse they have no attachment to .

 

[Abi90]

I have a mare with pastern arthritis, she is sound and in full work but I could never sell her because it would be so easy for someone else to pretend that she had no issues and sell her on for more money.

She will step down when she needs to and retire when she needs to. If, for whatever reason, I didn’t have the time she would be loaned out nearby so I could keep an eye on her.

 

[Renvers]

I wondered the same as Winters. If its just a lack of time could you have someone permanent loan her from your yard? Or possibly put her on grass/retirement livery until the arthritis needs daily meds at which point you can reassess?

I agree with this approach.

I retired my horse to the field at 12 with arthritis. He was a buckle end hack, but I was worried about the future he would have if I sold him on and I have the resources to keep him so I did.

Maybe look at that option, even grass livery will massively reduce the time factor of keeping a horse. If that still isn't an answer a good retirement livery could take over all the care aspects whilst you see how the mare does after medication.

 

[Birker2020]

Honest answer and I’m sorry if offends anyone. I have a 13 yr old Connie with hock arthritis and wouldn’t even consider selling him. My horse, my responsibility and if it gets to much I will have him PTS. I could not nor would I ever sell him.

Sometimes owners need to man up and be there for their horses.

I agree. Having been down and long and costly road with my horse with arthritic hocks, neck and coffin joints (all which were diagnosed and treated) I would not have considered selling her. My responsibility. If latest treatment doesn't work and she can't be paddock sound then I will acknowledge that finally we have come to the end of the road and I need to understand this and act on it by PTS. And I wont let her down much as it will kill me.

Some horses can be buted up and sold on and I don't think is fair on the horse. I'm sorry you are faced with this decision.

If the horse can live a good life bute free then you could consider the blood bank, the horses entrusted into their care live good lives as natural as they can. They would I suspect pts if your horse became unsound but to what degree it would have to be before they did that I could not say. They have a duty of care to their horses though. The thing is steroid injections can last a long time, my horse has only been medicated 4 times in 12 years for her coffin joints so your horse might be fine for another two or three years.

 

[paddi22]

I've a few quirky ones out on loan and it works well. once you trust the person and they have good communication with you and alert you to any issues then it can be very positive. but it is good to get a plan in place for x months emergency grass livery if the horse has to come back to you suddenly. that way you have a cushion to look for another loan or PTS

 

[EllenJay]

Would she be any good for a blood bank?