Selling a horse with spavin.

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Bert&Maud

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Apologies for putting this in CR but I thought you lot would be the most likely to give me realistic answers!
Earlier in the year I decided to sell my gorgeous 9 year old IDX who has been very succesful unaff ODE/SJ etc, as well as 2nd in BE90 & BE100 on day tickets earlier in the spring. Also placed at RC Champs SJ and Horse Trials. I advertised him and had dozens of replies, and the first people to see him wanted to buy him. Despite being the soundest horse I've ever owned, and passing flexion tests, to my shock and horror, he failed the vet. After physio was unsuccesful (recommended by vet) he's had a full lameness workout and has been diagnosed with bi-lateral low hock spavin. He's had steroid injections which the vet is 80% confident will do the trick, and is also on cortavet. My vet has said that in her opinion this should not be an obstacle to selling him, and that she is very happy to talk to potential purchasers to re-assure them (this is assuming that he is in the 80% bracket and not the 20%!). I am in the position of absolutely having to sell this horse, due to family problems I am having to give up horse ownership altogether, so deciding to keep him after all is not an option. A friend (who is a Veterinary nurse) who has bought, produced and sold numerous lovely horses, says that in her opinion this is a very common problem, and providing the horse is sound it should not warrant a significant reduction in price, apart from taking into consideration that the purchaser may have to pay for occasional injections as their insurance will not cover them.
I'm sure I'm not the first person to be faced with this dilemma. This really is the most lovely horse, and the most reliable and enjoyable jumper you could hope to find, so I really want to find him a lovely home and do the best for him.
Cup cakes and a glass of Pinot Grigio for getting this far! Ideas and experiences please?!
 
I am so sorry for you but your Vet is the most uncommercial person I have ever heard of and so is your friend.

The market is a buyers market and people are searching high and low for homes for good horses. You are offering a horse to market who has a 1 in 5 chance of becoming unsound with an illness that strikes fear into anyone who hears the words "hock spavin". He has already failed the vet and is unlikely to pass another one in the near future.

You will, I think, find it difficult sell him at anything much over meat money.

I do feel for you, but the advice that you are being given is unrealistic. I have direct experience of three spavined horses and would not buy one knowing it had this issue. It is a degenerative condition and even if you could show totally fused bones on radiographs it would not mean that the horse will stay completely sound. Without fused xrays, there is no knowing where his condition will take him, soundness wise. From experience I know that an eventer can go from totally sound and in the placings at Novice Affiliated to refusing at fence one and retired at fence 4 in the space of 2 weeks and unsound for 3 years after that .

Apart from anything, although he "may" only need hock injections once every six months or so, these are not insured and will cost the buyer around £300 a year, and are far from guaranteed to continue to work in future.
 
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Sorry but I wouldn't knowingly buy a horse with Spavins. I've spent most of this year going through the heartache of a horse with soundness issues and I wouldn't choose to buy a horse that I knew already had a problem. I would be prepared to seriously drop the price that you are asking for him.
 
I am afraid agreeing with the other responses.There are many horses out there that will pass vetting that most people will not risk it.
He will be uninsurable but unfortunately not a LOU either.
Long term loan/ vtb could be an option?
 
I'm sorry I also agree with the others. :( I have a pony who was diagnosed with spavins a few years ago, he is now sound most of the time but only does dressage and it is a constant battle to keep him sound and he can't do too much.

But every horse is different and I hope you find him a good home.
 
Ditto to the above. I've had two potential horses fail in their vetting because of spavins and I've walked away from both. I also had a horse who I sold a few years back who passed a 5 stage vetting, then a year later with new owner developed spavin in his hock. It was treated, etc, back into ridden work, but I have recently heard he's been turned away as he'll never be sound. Very sad for all concerned.
 
I'm just so worried about what my options are. I wouldn't be able to get LOU because he's only recently been diagnosed, and I'm sure the insurance co would want to wait ages before deciding, and of course there's every possibility that he might be fine. They also usually decide that the horse has a "residual value" and do not pay out anything like the sum insured.
I had to put my last horse out on loan as he got inoperable KS and was only suitable for light hacking. I had LOU for him so he was no longer insured. If I decided to go down the loan with view to buy route with this horse, would I continue to insure him as the loanee wouldn't be able to. How does one go about an agreement on view to buy with regard to the eventual price?
I've got so many family problems at the moment with serious illnesses and the decision to sell up was such a heartbreaking one, and now I just don't know how I'm going to see a solution.
 
Just sold a horse - identical to the above also LOU. Would you like to see my advert? PM me.

Also I did not get meat money ;) had buyers queuing up for him. Better the devil you know!!
 
Interesting thread as I am in a similar position with a horse I own, who I really need to sell. My vet is confident he should return to full work, and when I asked him didn't seem to think that selling him would be too much of a problem. Unlike your horse who sounds lovely, mine is a little sod, so I have resigned myself to get less than meat money for him!
 
charlimouse said:
Interesting thread as I am in a similar position with a horse I own, who I really need to sell. My vet is confident he should return to full work, and when I asked him didn't seem to think that selling him would be too much of a problem. Unlike your horse who sounds lovely, mine is a little sod, so I have resigned myself to get less than meat money for him!
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It's interesting that two vets do not consider this to be a problem. Generally they are reknowned for being unwilling to commit themselves. It would be interesting to hear from any vets to find out if they share my vets optimism.
 
I sometimes think vets need to come to the real world. I have heard numerous times how bone spavins don't cause a problem but of the three horses I know with them, none of the horses stayed sound even when fused.

Unfortunately I have a horse that was diagnosed with spavins last October. She's had steroid injections, Tildren and finally Ethyl alcohol treatment which is the last resort. Every step of the way my vet said "don't worry I've treated worse cases than this and they've been fine", only to then come back and say they didn't understand why Zara wasn't responding. To be told this numerous times and nine months later still have a horse which is lame is very disheartening and you lose faith in your vet.

Getting back to your question, I certainly wouldn't buy a horse with a known spavin.
 
He seems quite young to have a spavin and if he will not pass a vetting then his value is going to be less than a horse that will so his value will be different now to what it was prior to diagnosis when he was sound.

If he does become sound enough to jump competitively again then someone will be interested but probably at a reduced price due to the risk the problem might return and that long term he may not stay sound as long as a horse without spavins and the insurance and injection costs.

Most people who vet a horse will not use the sellers vet so your vet reassuring potential purchasers will not be much use I am afraid as they will be more interested in an independent opinion.
 
i own a spavin horse (also a PhD in the subject!)
i don't understand why anyone would knowingly buy a spavin horse
owning one that develops spavin is one thing - actively buying one with the issue is something else entirely!
yes - they do usually fuse - but

in the meantime the horse will have active joint changes - therefore on off lameness and injections/drugs don't always keep them rideable
then if it doesn't fuse you have a year at least trying to get them to fuse - with varying success

then when they are fused the horse looks sound but in fact they are bi-laterally altered so appear even (and should be pain free)
the altered movement can and does affect other structures - especially back and front legs - as they put more weight in front and 'pull' themselves along.

all spavin horses will succumb at some point to a spavin related issue – it’s just a matter of when - my 13 yr old did well for a number of years - he's now falling to pieces (he's a happy as a lawn mower now!)

therefore - no - personally I wouldn't buy one - and i wouldn't advise anyone too

however people do - especially if the horse has a talent - therefore can 'teach' a person something in the time the horse has left
(also many don't understand spavin either so think it's not as much of a problem as fired tendons ets)
if well priced and advertised well i'm sure he'll sell but it might take a while (remember they won't be able to insure for the hocks or LOU on them - and potentially other things - the horse will require remedial shoes/meds)
 
I think the reason many vets might have a different view is, if they are regularly concerned with vetting/treating performance horses, they know how very common spavins are and how many ostensibly sound horses have changes that appear on x-rays or even respond to flexions.

In North American, where x-rays are standard for vetting even very low level horses, you see a lot more horses positively diagnosed. Here, where horses rarely get x-rayed unless there is a real cause for suspicion, I suspect there are a lot more running around with then without their people knowing and the ones that are confirmed as in the group less likely to return to soundness.

All that said, it's a problem for selling. This is true in North America, too, where even though people expect to see more wear and tear, that doesn't necessarily translate into them being more willing to accept it. Usually a successful sale relies on having a history of x-rays and veterinary reports that prove progression is slow/negligible/not affecting competition soundness. And while managing spavins can be quite simple, buyers want proof it can be managed on a particular regime and usually want a price reduction as well. :(

This totally sucks for you. :(

One thing I have done in the past in similar situations is a "lease to own" deal, where someone takes the horse for an agreed upon period of time, with a right of first refusal at the end of it. BUT - and it's a big BUT - I've only done this under very managed circumstances, where the horse stayed with me or with another trainer I trusted and was ridden and cared for in an agree upon way. In one case, though, it actually worked out to the seller's benefit - the horse went from strength to strength and was actually worth more at the end of the lease period. When the leaser offered a lower price than agreed the owner entertained higher offers and the leaser had to come back and pay MORE than she would have if she'd bought the horse originally!

But I would agree, I don't think you're getting very realistic advice. Do you have to sell in order not to have the horse or do you "need" the money you've planned on from selling? If it's the former, I'd say offer the horse at a reduced rate with full disclosure. Not a great situation but that's horses, isn't it. :( :(
 
The loanee can insure Tass, I have done it with one of mine.

I am so sorry for your situation, I think you just need to get him out on loan as soon as you can, to stop paying any more money for him until you get your life straight again. Best wishes.
 
I agree with others too.
Osteoarthritic changes which lead to spavin and lameness are common. But once the horse is lame it can be very difficult to get it sound. I was told that of those treated with the op/tildren etc to fuse success rate is about fifty percent but its poorer if you look at other treatment eg cortisone in the hocks to manage the condition. If you are successful with managing the issues with cortisone and no lameness is apparent then you may find a buyer but at a reduced price. At least the buyer will knoiw that the condition is capable of being managed for the present. We had a mare who was operated on for this and has been completely sound for over 15 years. We never tried to sell her but if we had we would have priced accordingly, but at least we would have been selling a horse which was not lame and where the bones had completely fused and a long history of no further problems.
I pulled out of buying an otherwise super GP prospect horse because it had severe osteoarthritic changes in its hock and I didn't know if I was going to have a useless and very pricey field ornament in the short term. Had the horse actually been lame, recovered, the issue was manageable with cortisone and priced accordingly I might have felt differently.
 
LEC said:
Just sold a horse - identical to the above also LOU. Would you like to see my advert? PM me.

Also I did not get meat money ;) had buyers queuing up for him. Better the devil you know!!
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LEC would you PM me the advert too? or tell me where to find it. I am in an identical position too with a horse with hock spavins and would be very interested to see what you had said. thank you
 
Having just had my best friend PTS at 12 following nearly 2 years of trying to treat his many problems caused by spavins I would never consider buying a horse with known spavins.

I am so sorry for you.
 
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