Selling a known broken horse? Wwyd

[NorthernGuin]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice

I had a horse on loan for 5 months. After a couple of months he slowly started breaking down and going lame and was diagnosed with luxating patellas and also upward fixation of the patellas

I returned him to his owner as he needs a strict exercise regime of hacking and hillwork in straight lines but as I work full time I couldn't do this so I returned him, owner has full vet report and x rays so she is more than aware of his diagnosis

Fast Forward a couple of weeks, and I had a phone call from a potential buyer of the horse out of the blue. It seems the owner hasn't informed anyone of his problems and is selling him as a fit and ready to go horse. I have also found his advert which doesn't indicate anything about his problems

So my question is, do I make it known to people that this horse has problems? The woman who phoned me wanted to jump and hunt and he isn't suitable for this at all. Or do I stay out of it, and watch him be passed pillar to post as he can't cope with strenuous exercise so will just be sold on again

Thanks

 

[Goldenstar]

I would tell the caller the truth .

 

[NorthernGuin]

I told the caller the truth, I wouldn't let anyone get the horse not knowing his full situation, its not fair on the horse at all

I just wanted to make sure my gut feeling was correct and Im unsure whether to spread the word about it

 

[madlady]

I would tell the caller the truth and TBH I'd also report the advert - for the sake of the horse if nothing else.

 

[AmyMay]

Although to be honest, with the problems described, it will be obvious to anyone viewing the horse.

 

[stormox]

Stay out of it, you dont know what the seller has told the buyer. If she has the horse vetted it will show up, and if she doesnt have it vetted and doesnt spot it,its her lookout. It may not be a problem anyway, Ive known many horses with sticky patellar ride perfectly fine, including hunting.

 

[LHIS]

Gut instinct is to tell her, if it was the other way round you'd appreciate being told. However, if she is sensible she will have the horse vetted, in which case it will become apparent that the horse isn't fit for purpose.

 

[Micropony]

I don't know what sort of a relationship you have with the owner, but I would be speaking first of all to them "I might have got the wrong end of the stick but..." and subject to what they say I would be leaving them very clear about my opinion of what they are doing.

As for what I would say to a potential buyer, if someone asked me directly, because they knew I had knowledge of the horse, then I would be honest but factual, and would avoid expressing an opinion about the owner's conduct in trying to pass off as a sound riding horse an animal known not to be suitable for that purpose. If you have made your views known to the owner this will hardly come as a shock. Being measured and discreet is one thing, but you have your own integrity to consider and it's not reasonable for someone to expect you to lie in response to direct questions in support of their unethical sales attempts.

However I wouldn't be proactively seeking to make my views known to potential purchasers. Ultimately it's not your horse and not your responsibility, however heartbreaking that might be.

The only way you can really stop this happening is to persuade the owner to sell the horse to you for whatever amount, and then either PTS or retire it. Assuming you're not prepared to go there (and let's face it, very few would), I don't think there's much you can do beyond speaking to the owner and trying to persuade them to see the error of their ways and take a more responsible approach.

 

[Dry Rot]

I'd probably tell her but the correct way out of it might be to recommend she gets the horse vetted and say nothing other than that is what you would do, as you are not a vet. I would then refuse to discuss it further.

 

[NorthernGuin]

Thankyou all

I spoke to the potential buyer and informed her and I have said she can contact my vets

He's going for 1k so highly doubt anyone would vet him, I'd just hoped that the owner had his best interests at heart at fully disclose this

The owner refuses to speak to me as she has a difficult personal life and Saw him being retuned as a burden so she won't let me buy him to retire him

I'm just going to keep out of it, if I do get people ringing me I will inform them, matter of fact, no opinion or Advice, but it's their horse and their option to tell people

Thanks again

 

[Shay]

You did the right thing to tell the caller OP. Personally I wouldn't approach the owner - I can't see any good coming out of it. She knows what she is doing selling the horse and isn't going to change her mind just because you say so - sorry. But that is absolutely no reason to compound the situation by lying yourself if someone contacts you. A sad situation. So sorry for you - and for the horse!

Sorry crossed with your response above... you did the right thing.

 

[SpringArising]

Thankyou all

I spoke to the potential buyer and informed her and I have said she can contact my vets

He's going for 1k so highly doubt anyone would vet him, I'd just hoped that the owner had his best interests at heart at fully disclose this

The owner refuses to speak to me as she has a difficult personal life and Saw him being retuned as a burden so she won't let me buy him to retire him

Why are people calling you if you've already sent the horse back? Did the owner pass on your number or something?

Someone got a five stage done on a Welsh I sold for 1k, so I wouldn't rule out a vetting.

I'd tell anyone who calls about his problems for the sake of the horse. If she won't let you buy him to retire him she sounds a bit strange. I'd GIVE him to you if it were me.

 

[Kezzabell2]

how did the buyer get your details? I would have told them for sure, poor horse getting passed on without making a new owner aware!

 

[NorthernGuin]

His owner is giving my number out, but she hasnt even asked me about giving people my number out

I know some people do vet for that amount, but some people will also just want a cheap horse

 

[Kezzabell2]

well if her owner gave them your number then she probably expects that you will mention it!!

some people do want cheap horses, but I'd be worried that if all they could afford for £1k for a horse, could they afford any treatment that the poor thing might require!! I would defo let them know ASAP and then they can make a decision, as it won't be covered by any insurance they can take out.

Also it seems silly to give your number out if she is trying to hide his injuries, do you think she might have mentioned it but asked them to speak to you as you might know a bit more about what is going on?

 

[Goldenstar]

It's simple you know OP to do a Charisma .
You just give a friend the cash and spend them along to view and buy the horse .
I would do that to get a horse friend out of trouble .

 

[sport horse]

You have a horse on free loan? Vet prescribes rehab work which you would not/could not do. You send the horse back. Owner is selling it for £1000 which is very cheap and would alert most people that there is a catch. You should butt out and tell owner not to give your number to prospective buyers.
Incidentally rehab work is very very successful - I have had two and both are absolutely fine now and one of them was very very bad - stifle stuck for nearly 24 hours. Surgery is an option if rehab does not work so horse is not necessarily 'broken' for life.

 

[NorthernGuin]

If he is exercised correctly he shouldn't need vets bills, obviously it would be excluded on the insurance policy

It is a good idea to get a friend to buy him

Vet prescribed rehab work which I couldn't do, I work full time and as I was advised straight line hacking, I didn't feel I could this in the dark as horse is nervous to hack so I didn't want to risk either of us in the dark

I am only getting involved if prospective buyers ring me, but the owners have been told that I don't want any part of this. The woman who rang me last night was not aware of any problems, she wanted to know how he was to ride and if he was 'ready made and can be pulled out of a stable' which while he is under the vets advice he isn't and I informed of this

I appreciate horses can come back from this, I have had experience of a horse which had locking stifles and he needed exercise and 24/7 turnout and it didn't affect him, but if potential buyers aren't aware they won't give him the exercise he needs

 

[Orangehorse]

I would tell any prospective buyer to have the horse well vetted. I think they will make their own minds up after that.

 

[indiat]

If someone asks you a direct question, why should you lie? You did the right thing. If his owner is giving your number out, she must know that it is more than likely his problems will come up.

 

[oldie48]

I thought luxating patella and upward fixing patella was the same thing? With the right kind of work to build up the quads horses are often fine. I haven't had personal experience but a friend had a five year old (usually seen in youngsters) with this problem and doing a lot of hill work to build up his muscles cured the problem completely. Unless there's something more significant going on, I wouldn't think retirement is on the cards and long term, there's a very good chance the horse will come right and be capable of doing a number of jobs. I would certainly mention it to anyone who approached me about the horse but wouldn't go out of my way to let people know.

 

[smja]

Personally, I would approach this as non-personally as possible, e.g. "horse is fab, but I returned him because vet told me he needed x rehab work, which I can't give him" rather than "has owner told you about his problems?".

If I wasn't contacted by a prospective buyer I wouldn't say anything (unless buyer was a friend!), but if asked I would disclose.

 

[NorthernGuin]

I wouldn't lit about his problems, he doesn't deserve that

Luxating is the dislocation of the joint whereas the upward fixation is the locking of the joint, so similar but not the same
He may come right with exercise of course, but it has to be the correct exercise and if he isnt vetted and someone just wants a cheap horse they won't may not notice this problem

I'm just going to be honest if I am contacted and just keep out of it if not, it's their horse not mine, what they say to sell him is their business, I just hope he ends up in the best place with the correct care

 

[YorkshireQuine]

Going to message you !

 

[YorkshireQuine]

From Owner -

"At what point in time is it acceptable that I don't mention Khan's locking stifle diagnosis to potential buyers? There has been no sign of it since he came home, the vet has said (in writing) that he suspects it has probably resolved and that he is absolutely sure that he doesn't have the other thing, the medially luxating patella because that is a very serious condition which would see him permanently lame and collapsing on his hocks all the time. Anyway, I've been telling everybody this but it's putting some ideal people off. And I might be mentioning something that I don't need to mention because it doesn't seem to exist. But I would feel I was trying to hide something if I didn't tell them about it".

From owner -

"He only has £2500 left of insurance. I need to discuss the options with the vet. I am running out of time to do anything with him".

From a friend of owner -

"Don't mention anything. You personally haven't had the vet check out the 'supposed' condition so keep quiet. They should get him vetted so see what that results in. Xx"

From owner -

"But what is honest? Our vet doesn't believe he has the fixating patella. He is sound, he's not lame at all. He didn't have any issues with Jayde, and with Hannah it was purely because his feet need proper attention to the hoof / pastern angle, her farrier was not doing this and he was leaving his toes too long and not building up his heels to correct the bad angle. Our farrier made a difference in a very short time. The notes from Hannah's vet had nothing significant to note.

With Laura he had a very bad fall in the school (on the lunge) and she got the physio out and there was no problem with his back, but it was shortly after that when the other problem was reported to us. I think he did some damage to himself. But our vet says he can't diagnose or treat a non existent issue. Which I can't really argue about! It's not a financial concern either now I have his insurance".
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...n-broken-horse-Wwyd/page3#13ZqMz8hJkv1wJTw.99

 

[AmyMay]

Confused.com

 

[NorthernGuin]

The post is saying what his owner has been telling people, but it isn't true. He is lame, he has a shortened stride, un-level pelvis and his is reluctant to move forward. Her vet hasn't seen him, so how does he know what the horse has?
He didn't have a bad fall, he did fall onto his side, but he was up and the physio saw him within 3 days who said his pelvis and poll were out, but wouldn't have been caused by the fall


YorkshireQuine can you empty your inbox so I can message you, thanks

 

[AmyMay]

Well as I said earlier, if the horse is as described even the most novice of owners will spot it because he will be bu$$reed behind.

 

[NorthernGuin]

He is, the poor thing

 

[AmyMay]

There we are then.