Selling or not selling

[Sanversera]

I am a horse owner of many years, during those years I've owned around 30 horses and ponies.some I've bred some I've bought, I've bought and sold privately and at auction and have gifted some to others. Sadly I've had some PTS. Recently a very good friend started telling me her thoughts on animal ownership. She has no animals at present but previously had a cat and a dog. She says she thinks it's wrong for animals to be traded for money.for monetary gain ( She doesn't mean meat animals btw). This got me thinking, what if we all couldn't sell or buy horses? Would it mean better quality of life for those already here? If no-one could make a profit maybe excess breeding would stop. I write this as recently I gifted a very saleable horse to an equine rehoming charity as I wanted his future to be secure rather than be sold on in the future, I've lost touch with too many over the years and don't know what happened to them years later.in a different thread people seem aghast that I suggested that someone gift their horse to a Homing charity rather than sell it. I. Am surprised by this. What are your thoughts on the whole buying and selling of horses or dogs or other animals.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I dont accept selling dogs and cats and constantly having litter upon litter of animals. If you have to rehome an animal it shouldn’t be for monetary gain. Maybe a donation to a local charity. As for selling horses, sometimes human and horse don’t get on and there is nothing you can do about it. So you are better off finding the right home and buy something you are suited with ?
If it wasnt for the business of selling and buying, would we all have our beloved animals?

 

[ponynutz]

My view is that sometimes shit happens and you can be prepared as you like but life gets in the way and sometimes it is not in the horse's best interest to be kept as opposed to being sold on.

I think also it IS different with horses. Cats and dogs tend to grieve their owners bc theyre so much part of our lives, they live in our homes with us and completely rely on us to survive (and know it). It feels cruel to move them on (although selling or leaving them at a shelter is still better than dumping them on the side of the road and I'd never shame someone for making that difficult decision). Horses, I'm convinced, are convinced they could do just fine without us and they are almost always working horses who live outside.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

There are plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons for buying and selling horses and ponies. If you could not do it, then no unsuitably matched partnerships would be rectified, no outgrown ponies could find new homes, no horses who were failing to thrive with a particular routine, lifestyle or set up could be moved to a better one, no older comptition horses could step down for a quieter life etc etc. Al existing horses would either stay where they were or get gifted to rescues which are already hopelessly full. It is completely impractical to imagine that all those horses ad ponies would be matched appropriately if all those sellers stopped selling and just gave them to rescues instead.

Plus if selling was banned then no quality horses would ever be bred or produced. All that would be left is backyard home-breeders, illegal breesing and accidents! I don't think that would do much for horse welfare.

In practice it would just mean the end of horse ownership as the existing animals would die out and no-one would be able to buy new ones. And new ones would not be being bred either.

 

[Abacus]

Where there is significant cost to breeding an animal (which applies to dogs and horses, and in some cases cats) it's unrealistic to expect that quality animals will be produced if they can't be sold at an appropriate price. It's better that professional breeders breed well, and that suitable homes pay the right amount for the right animal, than people try to breed their own or take what is gifted.

 

[smolmaus]

I am coming from the perspective of someone who works with an equine rescue; my own pony came from there and will go back there if I am ever incapable of keeping her (I'll need to be dead). There are enough animals dumped and in actual need of rescue that there is no need for a perfectly sellable animal with a caring and thoughtful owner to take up those resources.

I do have a problem with bin end dealers trying to make a buck out of anything that still has enough legs present, if not working, and people breeding with no thought for long-term health and usefulness but I don't think you could ban the sale of horses and still have anything like the sport we do now, at any level.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I am coming from the perspective of someone who works with an equine rescue; my own pony came from there and will go back there if I am ever incapable of keeping her (I'll need to be dead). There are enough animals dumped and in actual need of rescue that there is no need for a perfectly sellable animal with a caring and thoughtful owner to take up those resources.
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Exactly this. Owners should sort their own fit, healthy, sellable horses out if they can. Leaving rescues free for horses in genuine need or for owners who have no options - due to sudden illness or whatever. If you don't want to lose control you can always loan or lease. Even a horse who is easy to place still takes up resources with an assessment process, home checks etc.

 

[Asha]

If you buy or breed a foal and raise it until it’s 4 . Have it backed and ridden away you will have spent a significant sum over the years . Why shouldn’t you recoup these costs ?
Also there is risk involved .. risk that the foal will not hurt itself / develop issues etc . All of which have an impact on value of the horse .
To expect someone to do this and not be able to either make a profit or at the very least break even sounds nuts. Their experience should be worth something surely ?.
The costs of raising a young horse to be a well balanced riding horse are so far away from what it costs to raise a dog / cat .
I can’t understand why your friend thinks it’s ok to make a profit from animals that are to be eaten but not from those destined to be enjoyed / used as part of a hobby / business etc. both are being traded .

 

[ycbm]

I think she has the right idea but the wrong answer.

I think the question is "can you ever really own a living animal"? My answer to that is "no, you pay a fee for the right to have that animal in your life". And if someone breeds or trains that animal for you, they have a right to be paid for that too.
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[oldie48]

I've bought horses and ponies that others have bred and trained because I would never wish to breed or start a horse or pony because I have neither the skill or experience to do it well. I've sold horses and ponies that have been outgrown or not suitable and genuinely done my best to find them the right home. I really don't have a problem with that. I've never sold a dog and could never imagine doing that, I can barely manage to leave a family dog whilst we go away on holiday for a week and have a live in carer for him but I have had the experience of finding a new home for a dog who was in an unsuitable home and it felt pretty awful but totally necessary, no money changed hands except for a generous (and grateful) donation.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I understand those who are uncomfortable with the whole concept of riding or working horses and would prefer to see the end to horse ownership, fullstop, regarding it as exploitative. But I can’t see how anyone of that viewpoint could be comfortable with raising animals for slaughter. Or why gifting horses is any better than buying them. The horse doesn’t know if he was ‘rehomed’ by a charity rather than sold.

 

[Ali27]

I haven’t ever sold a pony/ horse! Mine are all with me forever? My daughter’s first pony went on loan when she outgrew her, then came home to retire with us. However, there needs to be a market for buying horses otherwise nobody would be able to own, other than breeders. I do think there should be more responsible breeding and maybe there would be less need for rehoming charities?‍

 

[Bernster]

It’s a funny old business in some ways. I wouldn’t think of selling cats or dogs but I have sold horses. I think it’s the distinction with them living with you at home although people have horses at home and still sell. Or maybe it’s due to what we do with horses, who are more of a work animal (albeit leisure mainly now). I don’t have a problem with it apart from when it’s done for the wrong reasons - passing on a problem mainly, but I can understand how a non horsey person, or someone who thinks of their horse more like the family pet, would struggle with the idea.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

It is food for thought.
I sold my first pony when I went to Uni and me/my parents couldn't afford to keep him and pay for new uni living costs. I sold him for a fair amount of money, with the thought that this gave him "value", and would mean he would be more likely to be cared for (I know this isn't a guarantee, but if you've paid a lot of money for a horse and it doesn't work out, at least you might try to sell on to get some of your money back). As an aside, the last I heard, he was happily retired with his last (long term) owner. I hope I never have to sell a horse again, but who knows what the future holds...
Funnily, I would never pay money for a cat or ask for money in the very hypothetical case I had a litter of kittens. But kittens (and cats) are a dime a dozen over here, there is always someone who wants to rehome a litter. But then, I'm not attracted by pure bred cats.
I would pay (good) money for a well bred puppy, but not for an older dog, even equally well bred (unless an adoption fee from a rescue). I suppose this is because again it costs money to produce good puppies, but once they've had a first home, they are no longer the clean slates you originally paid for and rehomes can come with issues. But then again, if I bred dogs or worked them professionally, I would pay for an proven adult dog. I also wouldn't sell an adult dog, but again hypothetically (I own a castrated male dog), I would sell puppies if I had a litter.
For horses, it cost a lot of money to get them on the ground and trained to be handled / ridden. Nobody would breed them if they couldn't at least have a chance of getting some of that money back. Even for a private owner, buying and keeping a horse costs a lot, and if for whatever reason you have to or want to sell, you would like to get some of that money back if possible, maybe to afford another horse, a house, education for your kids, ect...
I suppose its all down to offer and demand (in my case, cats), emotional attachment (e.g. dogs), purpose of the animal (e.g. dogs, horses) and simply how much a person can afford to "write off" if they don't need to (e.g. horses). The balance will probably be different for everyone.