Senior dog not settling?

[fiwen30]

Hi all, sorry for taking time to reply, it’s been a tough few days.

I’ve not used the sleeping tablets yet, I’m loathe to unless he’s really exhibiting distress, and at that point it may be time to make other decisions.

We’ve been trying the NutraMind since Thursday, and I also got a plug in calmer. I trialled leaving a nightlight on for him last night, and that really seemed to reduce the pacing which was interesting. Not sure if that’s a mental or physical response - whether it helps his brain to relax, or if he’s being confused in the darkness - but we’ll take what help we can get.

He’s so well in himself still - bright, happy, alert, playful, clean in the house. Still game for his walks, still understanding the commands he knows, still recognising people, still brings his toys over to engage for playtime, still is able to use his nose and his mind to play with his treat puzzle toys.

It’s just these nighttime issues which are the stand out behaviours.

I’ve been reading a lot about CCD, and the hardest part seems to be knowing when it’s time to PTS, when the dog is otherwise healthy. It seems to be about balancing out the physical health against the mental health, and recognising that PTS for mental health is just as kind, compassionate, and unfortunately necessary sometimes. God knows that’s a difficult thing to think about. The anticipatory grief is real.

For now, we’ll take every day as it comes.

 

[fiwen30]

Morning everyone.

We’ve had a rough couple of nights. Again, all fine during the day, and settled up until bedtime around 10-11.

Not sure if he’s been pacing or unsettled earlier, but I was woken up at 3am on Friday and last night by him bashing into furniture. On Friday he got wedged in a corner down the side of the sofa, and so I dragged a heavy suitcase full of books (not unpacked fully from moving!) to cover the gap. I tried giving an ACP tablet, but it didn’t touch him. I was up for over an hour, sat on the floor trying to stroke and soothe him to no use, before I had to go back to bed - earplugs in, duvet piled on my head, to try and block his pacing out.

Last night he was repeatedly climbing in and out of the legs of a little side table in the corner, and the in and out of my computer chair legs in the other corner. I had to remove both pieces of furniture to the back garden at 3am as he was fixated on them. Again about an hour later and I was back in bed, and I think he settled after I removed the errant bits of furniture.

As soon as my alarm goes off he’s beside the bed, wanting me up. We do toileting, meds, breakfast, as usual, and then he’s into his bed beside my desk whilst I work, and straight off to sleep.

It’s so, so hard, because he’s so himself during the day. But at night, it’s like Jekyll and Hyde.

For those of you who have also dealt with CCD, how quickly did it progress? How long was it until you made the decision to PTS?



I made the mistake of going onto fb at 3:30am on Friday, to see if there were any CCD support groups. All I found were posts with dogs far worse than my boy - incontinent, blind & deaf, aggressive, 15+ - and the owners being recommended to try herbs or supplements, or to put their dog in nappies. Not the sort of kind, empathising PTS reassurance that I was looking for.

 

[Clodagh]

Morning everyone.

We’ve had a rough couple of nights. Again, all fine during the day, and settled up until bedtime around 10-11.

Not sure if he’s been pacing or unsettled earlier, but I was woken up at 3am on Friday and last night by him bashing into furniture. On Friday he got wedged in a corner down the side of the sofa, and so I dragged a heavy suitcase full of books (not unpacked fully from moving!) to cover the gap. I tried giving an ACP tablet, but it didn’t touch him. I was up for over an hour, sat on the floor trying to stroke and soothe him to no use, before I had to go back to bed - earplugs in, duvet piled on my head, to try and block his pacing out.

Last night he was repeatedly climbing in and out of the legs of a little side table in the corner, and the in and out of my computer chair legs in the other corner. I had to remove both pieces of furniture to the back garden at 3am as he was fixated on them. Again about an hour later and I was back in bed, and I think he settled after I removed the errant bits of furniture.

As soon as my alarm goes off he’s beside the bed, wanting me up. We do toileting, meds, breakfast, as usual, and then he’s into his bed beside my desk whilst I work, and straight off to sleep.

It’s so, so hard, because he’s so himself during the day. But at night, it’s like Jekyll and Hyde.

For those of you who have also dealt with CCD, how quickly did it progress? How long was it until you made the decision to PTS?



I made the mistake of going onto fb at 3:30am on Friday, to see if there were any CCD support groups. All I found were posts with dogs far worse than my boy - incontinent, blind & deaf, aggressive, 15+ - and the owners being recommended to try herbs or supplements, or to put their dog in nappies. Not the sort of kind, empathising PTS reassurance that I was looking for.

My brother’s lab slept in a kennel and he wondered why it was always such a mess in the morning. He went on holiday and the dog slept at my aunts, shut in her kitchen. She had him PTS the next morning as he was so terrified all night and trying to climb into things.
IMO if you choose to keep him going then you need to be awake and with him while he’s distressed. It’s incredibly cruel to shut him away in a blind panic so you can get some sleep.

 

[planete]

I am so sorry to read you are faced with this, it is heartbreaking. I had exactly the same with a Border Terrier some years ago. The day he was so confused he wedged himself behind a desk and was literally strangling himself in the computer wires when I found him and got him out was the day I decided it was not safe or fair to carry on. It is very hard when they seem physically ok but I think it is kinder to put an end to the bewilderment the dog must be experiencing in a world that no longer makes sense. Yours is probably still taking his cues from familiar people and happenings during the day but, left to his own devices at night cannot cope. The restlessness at night was also a feature of our dog's illness. I am afraid I agree with Clodagh though I hate to say it as I know how you feel.

 

[meleeka]

I don't think it would be unreasonable to PTS if you are out of options. You've either got to be able to get him to sleep properly at night, or PTS I think. It can't be nice for either of you and there's little chance of it improving. If it were mine, I'd speak to the vet one last time and if there's nothing they can do, let him go while he's still good during the day. Whatever you do at this stage you are sadly just putting off the inevitable

I'm thinking of you as I know how incredibly hard it is to play god like this. You wouldn't be a good owner if you just did it without questioning yourself, so take some time to do that until it's right in your mind.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I don't understand why you haven't used the sleeping tablets ( I assume they are for him, not you). If you don't want to do that, you really can't leave him pacing around all night in a panic, so your only option is pts. I'm sorry, it is always a hard decision but QOL has to come first.

Eta, you're not playing God, you are being a responsible owner which you committed to being when you took the dog on.

 

[CorvusCorax]

In the past few months, loose in the house, my 13 year old has wandered into the spare bedroom, where he has never really gone, gone into a corner or against a wall and got 'stuck' and just stood there quietly and waited for me to come and get him, which is unusual in itself as when he was younger he would have just busted out of the joint and wrecked the place. If I am with him and we are in a room he knows (living room or kitchen) it is not such a problem but he always has been a dog that paces. He is crated at night and he always has been, since he was a puppy, this is something he knows, it's a very clear signal that 'this is night time/sleep/chill time'. I sleep 10 steps away from him so I would hear him if he was distressed (if he ever needs anything in the middle of the night he lets me know and then I can get him out quick, it's a small bungalow). Is he used to a crate, could you crate him in your room?
Am I right in thinking you have moved house recently? It's possible this is being amplified by a change of layout and he is getting more disorientated - this isn't the landscape he knows. I know you are readying yourself for the inevitable and there is nothing wrong with that, but is there any way at all you could replicate the layout of your previous home? Are you leaving lights on for him? People with dementia get this too, it's called sundowning.

 

[skinnydipper]

Not sure if he’s been pacing or unsettled earlier, but I was woken up at 3am on Friday and last night by him bashing into furniture. On Friday he got wedged in a corner down the side of the sofa, and so I dragged a heavy suitcase full of books (not unpacked fully from moving!) to cover the gap. I tried giving an ACP tablet, but it didn’t touch him. I was up for over an hour, sat on the floor trying to stroke and soothe him to no use, before I had to go back to bed - earplugs in, duvet piled on my head, to try and block his pacing out.

Maybe the tablet would work better if you gave it before he gets upset.

I know that you have always gone the extra mile for him, trying to keep him comfortable and pain free, but the time comes when we have to accept that we've come to the end of the road for one reason or another and that the kindest thing we can do is to let them go.

 

[fiwen30]

I don't understand why you haven't used the sleeping tablets ( I assume they are for him, not you). If you don't want to do that, you really can't leave him pacing around all night in a panic, so your only option is pts. I'm sorry, it is always a hard decision but QOL has to come first.

Eta, you're not playing God, you are being a responsible owner which you committed to being when you took the dog on.

QOL always comes first, which is why I’m here. I’ve never used sedation tablets with any animal before - after we tried the first one at 3am on Friday night, he was a little dopey yesterday morning. I waited 24 hours till it was out of his system which is why I didn’t give one last night. We will be trying another tablet an hour before our scheduled bed time tonight.

 

[fiwen30]

Maybe the tablet would work better if you gave it before he gets upset.

I know that you have always gone the extra mile for him, trying to keep him comfortable and pain free, but the time comes when we have to accept that we've come to the end of the road for one reason or another and that the kindest thing we can do is to let them go.

I’ve come to realise that myself now - see my above post, thanks.

 

[fiwen30]

My brother’s lab slept in a kennel and he wondered why it was always such a mess in the morning. He went on holiday and the dog slept at my aunts, shut in her kitchen. She had him PTS the next morning as he was so terrified all night and trying to climb into things.
IMO if you choose to keep him going then you need to be awake and with him while he’s distressed. It’s incredibly cruel to shut him away in a blind panic so you can get some sleep.

He’s never been contained before, and I don’t plan to now. You’re right that it’s not safe, it’s not practical, and it’s not fair - it’s hard on his mind and also on his body. I suppose I’m just seeking reassurance that PTS is the right thing to do here.

 

[fiwen30]

In the past few months, loose in the house, my 13 year old has wandered into the spare bedroom, where he has never really gone, gone into a corner or against a wall and got 'stuck' and just stood there quietly and waited for me to come and get him, which is unusual in itself as when he was younger he would have just busted out of the joint and wrecked the place. If I am with him and we are in a room he knows (living room or kitchen) it is not such a problem but he always has been a dog that paces. He is crated at night and he always has been, since he was a puppy, this is something he knows, it's a very clear signal that 'this is night time/sleep/chill time'. I sleep 10 steps away from him so I would hear him if he was distressed (if he ever needs anything in the middle of the night he lets me know and then I can get him out quick, it's a small bungalow). Is he used to a crate, could you crate him in your room?
Am I right in thinking you have moved house recently? It's possible this is being amplified by a change of layout and he is getting more disorientated - this isn't the landscape he knows. I know you are readying yourself for the inevitable and there is nothing wrong with that, but is there any way at all you could replicate the layout of your previous home? Are you leaving lights on for him? People with dementia get this too, it's called sundowning.

Thanks CC.

We moved 15 months ago, and the house layout wouldn’t be able to be replicated, unfortunately. He’s never been crated before, so he wouldn’t know to settle in one, and it’s probably best not to try now.

I’ve been leaving a small light on, and it seemed to have a positive impact for a few nights, but not for the last 2.

What’s it you’re thinking for your lad, if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[tda]

Fiwen, it is the right thing to do, he is not going to improve. Sorry. Xx

 

[CorvusCorax]

Thanks CC.

We moved 15 months ago, and the house layout wouldn’t be able to be replicated, unfortunately. He’s never been crated before, so he wouldn’t know to settle in one, and it’s probably best not to try now.

I’ve been leaving a small light on, and it seemed to have a positive impact for a few nights, but not for the last 2.

What’s it you’re thinking for your lad, if you don’t mind me asking?

I'm not really thinking anything to be honest, just taking it day by day. He's currently within my personal parameters of QOL and when he isn't, I'll make the call.

You don't *really* need validation from others if you've decided it's not fair to continue, he is your dog and you know him best.

 

[misst]

We had Tilly PTS when she was no longer herself. She was vacant and obviously hallucinating at times. She would growl and snarl at thin air for no reasons. If we then stroked her and spoke to her she would look upset and confused and allow us to soothe her. She had become confused about where to toilet going into the garden then coming in and weeing on the mat. She had cataracts and was a little bit deaf which didn't help. One day on a walk she walked under a gorse bush and wouldn't come out so had to stay on a lead after that. The following week she was PTS at home. She progressed quickly over a few weeks from the growling at thin air to be just not being "present". No one single cause just lots of little things that told us she was not happy or comfortable anymore. My vet said she was lucky she was a dog and we could help her, his grandmother stuck in a home unable to move, not knowing anyone or anything had to be allowed to endure it. She went on my lap with only half the injection given before she was gone. I have no regrets though physically she was still running around sometimes and eating well.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

He’s never been contained before, and I don’t plan to now. You’re right that it’s not safe, it’s not practical, and it’s not fair - it’s hard on his mind and also on his body. I suppose I’m just seeking reassurance that PTS is the right thing to do here.

Yes, it is, if you decide that it is. You know your dog better than anyone else, including the vet. You are the one who is watching him pacing around in panic overnight and the only one who can say 'Enough!'.

As I said in a previous post, it's not that you are playing God but that you are taking everything into account and doing what you can to alleviate his suffering. If he were mine, I would give ACP tablet in good time this evening and if it doesn't work to settle him, I would ring the vet and make an appointment to pts ASAP. I hope that it does work but, sadly you would be in the same position again in a very short time. Better a week too soon, than a day too late, as the saying goes.