Sensitive subject - PTS

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sjdress

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I am struggling with what to do for my mare. 24 yo, retired 18 months ago from ridden work as couldn’t keep sound due to coffin joint arthritis. I always said I would keep her retired as long as she was field sound. She’s never been 100% field sound but just tottery more than anything else. Last year or so has suffered infections (sinus and fungal leg infection) and a week ago went absolutely hopping lame. Farrier out, no sign of abscess but poulticed anyway just in case.
No improvement so vet out. Nerve blocks revealed it wasn’t foot and she only blocked out about 50% to check ligament area. Had had two previous check ligament injuries so images are scarred and not good to look at anyway. Vet suggested remedial shoeing and scans and x rays, however I feel like we have come to the end of the road. She’s not as happy as she was and is laying down a lot. But vet has not suggested PTS so am I wrong to think this? Should I be going down the remedial shoeing route again (been there before with her, didn’t help long term). I’m heart broken as I’ve owned her for 18 years but I always said if she wasn’t field sound I would PTS, but the reality is very difficult. Especially as vet has not suggested towards this.
 
sjdress said:
however I feel like we have come to the end of the road
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So sorry you’re wrestling with this decision. My opinion whenever someone asks this question is that you know your horse best and if you feel you’ve come to the end of the road then you more than likely have.

She’s tottery and lying down more and yes, you could give remedial shoeing, scans and xrays ago, but you’d get no criticism from me for drawling the line now. Don’t leave it until she lies down and can’t get back up.

I’d have an honest conversation with your vet about PTS.
 
I wouldn't embark on a remedial shoeing path with a retired horse, and if remedial shoeing was needed to be field sound, that would be time to call it I think.

It sounds like you've done all you can, and then some, for her already

I'm sorry xx
 
You know your mare better than any vet and you have to look after her. I wouldn't waste my time talking to vets, they all seem to want to prolong life at all cost. Apart from when mine have been put down as a result of illness so a vet was there and did it for me I have always called either the hunt or the knacker. Much simpler (and cheaper if money is an issue) and a very professional service. The knacker we use is wonderful, total trust in him to be caring and efficient.
 
sjdress said:
I always said I would keep her retired as long as she was field sound. She’s never been 100% field sound
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You've already deviated from your own boundaries. To go further and start investigations and remedial shoeing would be sticking a massive plaster over the issue. I think you're absolutely within reason to consider PTS. To be honest I would have done it at the pottery stage.
 
I'm in agreement with everyone else here it's never an easy decision but you know your horse better than any of us. Think about her quality of life. If she's laying down a lot and vets are suggesting remedial shoes to get her comfortable then I think you need to really weigh up the pro's and cons of doing this. It's not going to be cheap and will likely need to be very regular in order to ensure she's kept comfortable. On top of this you need to consider the ringbone as if you have to add wedges to support the ligament is that going to worsen or improve the coffin joint? I made the call to pts a couple of years ago my horse of 15yrs after his stifle arthritis got to end stage and treatment wasn't an option. He rapidly deteriorated and the last thing i wanted was him to go down and not get back up. I'm in a similar place with a mare who is at the point of possible retirement if steroids don't make her comfortable. I will also then have to weigh up the decisions as she is a very sensitive mare who doesn't like to be stabled in winter and can be difficult to handle.
 
I wouldn't ask the vet would tell them that you have decided to.pts. You get vets especially seem to be very reluctant to suggest it if the owner doesn't mention pts first.
You have done the right thing by your mare up to now and you decided on your line in the sand when you retired her. Don't be pushed into doing something that isn't in her best interest now.
As others said you don't need a vet to pts, I usually try to avoid the injection tbh.
 
If she is lying down a lot that tells me that she is not comfortable standing for long and trying to find ways to "make" her do that only seems to me to be delaying the inevitable, while adding stress and cost for you and her. I believe a flight animal that is not confident on her legs cannot be a happy one.

Please don't feel that you have to follow a vet's suggestion or struggle on beyond the point of reasonableness. You have given her a good life and your last gift to her can be a good and timely end. While I would always ask a vet's opinion on the medical issues, I would not ask advice on pts. Unless it is a severe welfare case, they cannot answer that question for us - that would be my decision and mine alone.

I am sorry that you are going through this - the decision-making and the waiting are the worst parts.
 
A vet can walk away from a problem and has professional detachment, but you have day to day care, and you do not want to see her struggle. My old horses I have PTS when to an outsider they look well, because want their last day to be a good one for them and good memory for me. If you can not trust the vet not to guilt trip you, call the fallen stock service.
It seems a modern trend for vets not to be pragmatic and not open about the horses long term quality of life, which should be the main driver in any decision. TBH if I have an idea what is wrong, I have already made up my mind before they come so they are told what I want doing, I have never had one argue with me.
 
nagblagger said:
I would look at the mare in front of you, she is not happy in the field, i would PTS.
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This all day long!

I'm sorry your in this position, its really hard especially when you have had them a long time. But it's the responsible thing to do as horse owners to give them a dignified end without suffering.

Be kind to yourself and take care.
 
In all honesty, is remedial shoeing going to leave her pain free and able to have a better life? I haven't reached this stage with my oldie yet, but I have all respect for anyone who has to make this hearbreaking choice. Your vet is outlining available options, should you wish to continue, and probably will support your decision if you mention calling a halt.
 
maya2008 said:
I have never involved a vet in planned pts of an older horse. The hunt or fallen stock via Equine End of Life Service (useful if no local hunts offer this) are professional, kind and don’t judge.

Alternatively, pick a pragmatic vet from your practice and have that conversation with them.
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This, absolutely, altho our vets are also an independent farm practice and far more pragmatic.
A recent review into increasing corporatisation of UK vet practices contains concerns from employed vets that they are pressured into offering far more treatments and interventions, even when the owners cannot afford this, and even when the outcome will merely be prolonged. Mainly discussing smaller pets, but you don’t need unsupportive professionals at any time, euthanasia is difficult enough as it is. Remember to care for yourself as well as the horse.
 
jules9203 said:
I was a Friend at the End volunteer for the BHS for a few years. You are not the first person to say the vet has not suggested pts. A lot of vets seem to be reluctant to suggest it. However I think you already know it would be the right decision. As 94lunagem has said raise it with your vet.
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That friend at the end is a good service.
 
I struggled with this for about 6months with my old boy. It’s horrid, you go back and forth and back and forth. I finally made the decision to give him the summer have some fun (he was still in work) then put him to sleep when we brought them in off 24/7 turnout in Nov if that year. It turns out I made the right decision as he got an infection we couldn’t clear in October and he went before then. The back and forth is normal. Do what’s best for the horse as they are right now. Hugs as it’s the hardest part of owning and loving horses.
 
Also struggling with the same issue as we made the decision to retire coblet at xmas , following 12 months of surgery, rehab, relapse, rehab etc which was just emotionally, financially and practically draining and he's currently turned away as a companion at a friends house on cheap grass livery.
He's not totally field sound but on bute dosed as needed. I had the vet out a fortnight ago, fully expecting to have "that conversation" but coblet actually trotted up sounder than he had 3 months previously so seemed to have rallied a little and given himself a while longer. In my head though I'm giving him the summer out as its idyllic where he is with his gelding chums and then when my friend brings hers in for the winter I will make the decision then :( Decided to go for quality over quantity and no more investigations or box rest. its very sad as he's only 17
 
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I am not far off that point with My lad. He has dodgy back legs, He is still field sound but cannot take any form of work.

I have said there will be no heroics with him. No scans, no anaesthetics, no box rest. If it cannot be done under standing sedation and him turned out within a day or 2 then it won't be happening. I am going for Quality not quantity.
He has some lumps in his mouth that the vet is coming out to soon. If they are what I think they are then he is going to get a month or so of sun on his back and pampering then the deed will be done.


I strongly believe better a month too early then a moment too late.
 
Nothing to add to above but it is a difficult time for you whatever you decide. Look after yourself.

If you do decide to pts then make it a positive decision on your part when you talk to the vet. It is kinder to the vet as well if the owner takes responsibility.

I've always had mine done by the hunt when I had my own place but the last 2 had to be done by injection because they were at livery and anything other than injection was considered 'inhumane'.
 
sjdress said:
I am struggling with what to do for my mare. 24 yo, retired 18 months ago from ridden work as couldn’t keep sound due to coffin joint arthritis. I always said I would keep her retired as long as she was field sound. She’s never been 100% field sound but just tottery more than anything else. Last year or so has suffered infections (sinus and fungal leg infection) and a week ago went absolutely hopping lame. Farrier out, no sign of abscess but poulticed anyway just in case.
No improvement so vet out. Nerve blocks revealed it wasn’t foot and she only blocked out about 50% to check ligament area. Had had two previous check ligament injuries so images are scarred and not good to look at anyway. Vet suggested remedial shoeing and scans and x rays, however I feel like we have come to the end of the road. She’s not as happy as she was and is laying down a lot. But vet has not suggested PTS so am I wrong to think this? Should I be going down the remedial shoeing route again (been there before with her, didn’t help long term). I’m heart broken as I’ve owned her for 18 years but I always said if she wasn’t field sound I would PTS, but the reality is very difficult. Especially as vet has not suggested towards this.
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Having also been in this position, I think you already know the answer…It will be very hard, but when you look back, you will realise just how strong you are and how much you loved your horse…
 
I think it can sometimes help to think in advance of what your red line is. it sounds like you've already decided that field sound is it. If you can't achieve that fairly easily, then that's your decision made. If you are struggling, then put a time limit on it, say one round of shoeing and if she's still lame by the next, then decision made. Of course you might decide not to shoe at all, but could she be helped any other way? If not, there's your decision. Ultimately you are only putting of the inevitable anyway, but you have to be happy with your decision and know it's the right thing to do, or it will play on your mind over and over (from my experience). I find it more upsetting to see my horse not happy than I do making the decision to PTS, so I know exactly how that feels.

Eta- Vets don't tend to bring it up themselves. My bet is that if you mention it to them, you'll have their support.
 
I always look at veterinary treatment as a “what’s my long term goal here” with my old lad, he had some on off lameness, he had injections etc and came sound then after his last set he just wasn’t. Vet said we can scan the suspensory and possible boxrest etc etc and my immediate thought was “what’s his life going to be like during and after this” and I concluded it wasn’t going to be nice. So he was let go.
 
That sounds like a lot for an older, retired horse already with issues. I think deep down we 'know' when to call time and when to keep going and in this case, I think you may have reached your decision.

I am surprised the vet is saying to keep going but tbh, you know your horse and I am afraid that, given what you've described, I would be considering PTS.
 
Didn't want to read and run.
It's an awful decision to make. Whatever route you go down I wish you all the best and if you do let your mare go you will know that you've given her a decent life and tried your very best to give her a good quality of life.
 
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