Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights
- Thread starter Sooty
- Start date
polyphonic
Well-Known Member
the PM of afghan was on TV, surely he has he power to over turn the conviction- there is a word for it but cant remember it!! sorry!!
SonnysHumanSlave
Well-Known Member
ERGHH!!!! what is wrong with these countries... they seriously need a kick up the Ass!!!
Poor bloke!
Poor bloke!
alleycat
Well-Known Member
I know so little about this. I thought that things were improving in Afghanistan? Have signed.
Pedantic
Well-Known Member
Brill, cant wait until we have islamic sharia courts here, what amazes me is the minute they get here they whinge and whine about their human rights, yet want this sort of caveman garbage here, must be somethng in the mix, innit
Shant be signing anything, if we help were interfering, if we dont were not helping with aid, cant have it both ways, let them have their country and let me have mine.
Shant be signing anything, if we help were interfering, if we dont were not helping with aid, cant have it both ways, let them have their country and let me have mine.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
I can't see the connection between signing the petition and sending aid, but maybe I am missing something. The depressing thing is you only have to look on the Amnesty website to see that despite the world becoming more accessible, and everything being more open, atrocities are openly carried out continuously. China still has the world's worst record on human rights, yet we are happy to trade with them and attend the Olympic games when they are held there. Plus ca change...
Tia
Well-Known Member
I have very mixed views on this. By Western standards, this is for sure an atrocity, however on the other hand I do feel that we shouldn't place our Western values on other countries.....and likewise Immigrants to the UK shouldn't have the power to alter our ways.
I don't care for the fact that Westerners try to control what goes on elsewhere. We really don't have any right to be pushing our opinions and beliefs onto other countries where they do things differently.
The man knew what he was doing. He has grown up in this culture therefore he would have been aware of how close to the wind he was sailing by printing out all this information and handing it around the University. I think he was silly to do so; but I guess there always have to be martyrs in any effort to change cultures of such radical countries and religions.
I obviously hope he is freed but I do hope that countries don't end up losing their individuality and uniqueness.
I don't care for the fact that Westerners try to control what goes on elsewhere. We really don't have any right to be pushing our opinions and beliefs onto other countries where they do things differently.
The man knew what he was doing. He has grown up in this culture therefore he would have been aware of how close to the wind he was sailing by printing out all this information and handing it around the University. I think he was silly to do so; but I guess there always have to be martyrs in any effort to change cultures of such radical countries and religions.
I obviously hope he is freed but I do hope that countries don't end up losing their individuality and uniqueness.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
I don't really see this as a political issue; purely a human rights one. Amnesty act in all countries, including the USA, to try and change political decisions to execute someone. If a life can be saved by interfering, then I am happy to interfere. China has one of the worst human rights records, if not the worst, and pressure from outside is encouraging them to change. They want to trade with the rest of the world, and are becoming aware of how their behaviour can affect that.
Tia
Well-Known Member
Ah well that may be because you don't agree with Capital Punishment and I do.
However in this case it isn't anything to do with me believing this man should receive a sentence of Capital Punishment. Clearly by our standards the man has not committed any crime.....but he has in his own country and has been judged and sentenced by the Laws in that country.
However in this case it isn't anything to do with me believing this man should receive a sentence of Capital Punishment. Clearly by our standards the man has not committed any crime.....but he has in his own country and has been judged and sentenced by the Laws in that country.
Biscuit
Well-Known Member
Agree with Sooty - I believe in human rights before culture.
Pedantic
Well-Known Member
I Definatley want the death penalty back here, or life to mean life, too many criminals just taking the piss, what happened to the rights of the victim and the victims family right to justice, not just a sentence related to how long we can afford money wise to keep them in prison for.
Stella
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I obviously hope he is freed but I do hope that countries don't end up losing their individuality and uniqueness.
[/ QUOTE ] This sort of individuality and uniqueness allows such countries to oppress and abuse women without compuction
As an example, a woman who is the victim of rape is considered guilty of adultery or promiscuousness and is jailed or stoned - Is that okay because its part of that countries culture? Remember if other women hadn't fought for your rights, you wouldn't have them. Women having no rights to property, voting and even control of their children used to be part of Western culture!!!
As for the poster who referred to 'them' trying to impose their ways on us when they come to the West and who said 'let them have their country and I'll have mine', the poor man who is the subject of the thread is one of 'them' who is trying to do something to modernise things is his country in the interests of women. Doesn't that matter?
I obviously hope he is freed but I do hope that countries don't end up losing their individuality and uniqueness.
[/ QUOTE ] This sort of individuality and uniqueness allows such countries to oppress and abuse women without compuction
As for the poster who referred to 'them' trying to impose their ways on us when they come to the West and who said 'let them have their country and I'll have mine', the poor man who is the subject of the thread is one of 'them' who is trying to do something to modernise things is his country in the interests of women. Doesn't that matter?
Pedantic
Well-Known Member
Have we learnt nothing from Iraq, interfering in other countries affairs, how many more of our soldiers ect are going to be killed and maimed, these people are different to us, it's their country and their business, no I dont agree with how they treat their women or each other but it's their business and not our affair, why is it us Brits seem to think we can poke our nose into everyone elses cultures and customs, we have been doing it for centuries, it's time we learnt our lesson, it's allright for Blair, he's gone on to more lucrative money making schemes, those who lost their lives and limbs are allready forgotten by the politicians and public, let's not be so quick to get involved, unless you want to go with ill fitting footwear and jamming guns in the sand and heat yourself.
Stella
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Have we learnt nothing from Iraq, interfering in other countries affairs, how many more of our soldiers ect are going to be killed and maimed, these people are different to us, it's their country and their business, no I dont agree with how they treat their women or each other but it's their business and not our affair, why is it us Brits seem to think we can poke our nose into everyone elses cultures and customs, we have been doing it for centuries, it's time we learnt our lesson, it's allright for Blair, he's gone on to more lucrative money making schemes, those who lost their lives and limbs are allready forgotten by the politicians and public, let's not be so quick to get involved, unless you want to go with ill fitting footwear and jamming guns in the sand and heat yourself.
[/ QUOTE ] I agree with you completely regarding military action. However, I also believe that people should express their disquiet at human rights abuses. We lose nothing by doing so, but the countries who commit them often want to be well regarded by the West and just our disaproval can make them reconsider how they treat (or should that be mistreat) people.
Have we learnt nothing from Iraq, interfering in other countries affairs, how many more of our soldiers ect are going to be killed and maimed, these people are different to us, it's their country and their business, no I dont agree with how they treat their women or each other but it's their business and not our affair, why is it us Brits seem to think we can poke our nose into everyone elses cultures and customs, we have been doing it for centuries, it's time we learnt our lesson, it's allright for Blair, he's gone on to more lucrative money making schemes, those who lost their lives and limbs are allready forgotten by the politicians and public, let's not be so quick to get involved, unless you want to go with ill fitting footwear and jamming guns in the sand and heat yourself.
[/ QUOTE ] I agree with you completely regarding military action. However, I also believe that people should express their disquiet at human rights abuses. We lose nothing by doing so, but the countries who commit them often want to be well regarded by the West and just our disaproval can make them reconsider how they treat (or should that be mistreat) people.
Tia
Well-Known Member
Stella, I don't think you have read what I actually said in my posts.
I am talking about our countries as they are now, not 50 or 100 years ago. You live by the Laws that are in place today, not old Laws which have been disbanded a long time ago. This man has been tried using the Laws of his Land at this time. His culture is quite different to ours - as I say, it often takes native martyrs to make a change within a culture.....not people from outside that culture and country. The country has to want to change, it cannot be dictated to by another country which deems that everyone in the world should live by their rules.
I am talking about our countries as they are now, not 50 or 100 years ago. You live by the Laws that are in place today, not old Laws which have been disbanded a long time ago. This man has been tried using the Laws of his Land at this time. His culture is quite different to ours - as I say, it often takes native martyrs to make a change within a culture.....not people from outside that culture and country. The country has to want to change, it cannot be dictated to by another country which deems that everyone in the world should live by their rules.
Stella
Well-Known Member
I did read what you said. I think we will have to agree to disagree because when it comes to basic human rights, I take a 'one world' view!
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I take a 'one world' view!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh that's a new one on me. Who is in charge of these "One World" views?
I take a 'one world' view!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh that's a new one on me. Who is in charge of these "One World" views?
sunflower
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
China still has the world's worst record on human rights, yet we are happy to trade with them and attend the Olympic games when they are held there. Plus ca change...
[/ QUOTE ]
And British competitors were to be asked to sign a contract including the clause "athletes are not to comment on any politically sensitive issues" though I understand this is now being reviewed after complaints.
China still has the world's worst record on human rights, yet we are happy to trade with them and attend the Olympic games when they are held there. Plus ca change...
[/ QUOTE ]
And British competitors were to be asked to sign a contract including the clause "athletes are not to comment on any politically sensitive issues" though I understand this is now being reviewed after complaints.
Fenris
Well-Known Member
The problem with interfering in other country's cultures is that we only seem to interfere with the ones that have something we want, like oil.
What about doing something about the horrors in China?
Don't go to the following link if you don't want to see the horrors of torture.
http://photo.minghui.org/photo/images/persecution_evidence/E_wuju_12.htm
And what is our government doing to make known to the Chinese that we abhor this? That we don't approve of their destruction of Tibet, its peoples and their religion?
HA!
What about doing something about the horrors in China?
Don't go to the following link if you don't want to see the horrors of torture.
http://photo.minghui.org/photo/images/persecution_evidence/E_wuju_12.htm
And what is our government doing to make known to the Chinese that we abhor this? That we don't approve of their destruction of Tibet, its peoples and their religion?
HA!
Stella
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I take a 'one world' view!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh that's a new one on me. Who is in charge of these "One World" views?
[/ QUOTE ] Its not as new one! Its a term often heard in the UK. As in 'world community' - as in people standing up and speaking up for the basic human rights of all citizens of the world.
I respect your right to hold your opinion, I would hope that you respect the rights of others to take this view.
[ QUOTE ]
I take a 'one world' view!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh that's a new one on me. Who is in charge of these "One World" views?
[/ QUOTE ] Its not as new one! Its a term often heard in the UK. As in 'world community' - as in people standing up and speaking up for the basic human rights of all citizens of the world.
I respect your right to hold your opinion, I would hope that you respect the rights of others to take this view.
Stella
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with interfering in other country's cultures is that we only seem to interfere with the ones that have something we want, like oil.
What about doing something about the horrors in China?
Don't go to the following link if you don't want to see the horrors of torture.
http://photo.minghui.org/photo/images/persecution_evidence/E_wuju_12.htm
And what is our government doing to make known to the Chinese that we abhor this? That we don't approve of their destruction of Tibet, its peoples and their religion?
HA!
[/ QUOTE ] Thats governments though isn't it? Individuals and organisations like Amnesty International do speak up against the injustices in those countries.
The problem with interfering in other country's cultures is that we only seem to interfere with the ones that have something we want, like oil.
What about doing something about the horrors in China?
Don't go to the following link if you don't want to see the horrors of torture.
http://photo.minghui.org/photo/images/persecution_evidence/E_wuju_12.htm
And what is our government doing to make known to the Chinese that we abhor this? That we don't approve of their destruction of Tibet, its peoples and their religion?
HA!
[/ QUOTE ] Thats governments though isn't it? Individuals and organisations like Amnesty International do speak up against the injustices in those countries.
Tia
Well-Known Member
I reiterate:
Who is in charge of these "One World" views?
Who is in charge of these "One World" views?
Sooty
Well-Known Member
And thank goodness Amnesty exists. It is totally apolitical, and exists purely to protect the human. People can try and hide behind the laws and religious principles of their land to commit atrocities, but that doesn't make it right. The young man in Afghanistan is doing exactly what the British suffragettes did; he is trying to change the system from within. He is 23 years old; many of us have children that age. I find it saddening that people are quite ambivalent about this situation because it is happening in another country.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
The people who hold them.
alleycat
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The country has to want to change, it cannot be dictated to by another country which deems that everyone in the world should live by their rules.
[/ QUOTE ]
True- but what is "the country"? The part of the country that we see is the part in power, and is all to often a minority.
And as a female, I DO feel just a tiny bit of involvement and gratitude towards people like this man.
Its NOTHING to do with Western values per se; artificial and unnecessary inequalities between the sexes are found wherever there are males & females, I guess- and an underlying feeling in some circles that women are the lesser sex isn't dead yet, even here in Britain. I have met with this in my life and in my career and when I was young and it was more widespread I can remember the anger and indignation I felt where these inequalities turned up. So in face of the far, far greater inequalities faced by women whose voice can't even be heard, I think that when a man is willing to discuss these inequalities and gets a death penalty as a result, the least we can do is sign a petition for his release.
The country has to want to change, it cannot be dictated to by another country which deems that everyone in the world should live by their rules.
[/ QUOTE ]
True- but what is "the country"? The part of the country that we see is the part in power, and is all to often a minority.
And as a female, I DO feel just a tiny bit of involvement and gratitude towards people like this man.
Its NOTHING to do with Western values per se; artificial and unnecessary inequalities between the sexes are found wherever there are males & females, I guess- and an underlying feeling in some circles that women are the lesser sex isn't dead yet, even here in Britain. I have met with this in my life and in my career and when I was young and it was more widespread I can remember the anger and indignation I felt where these inequalities turned up. So in face of the far, far greater inequalities faced by women whose voice can't even be heard, I think that when a man is willing to discuss these inequalities and gets a death penalty as a result, the least we can do is sign a petition for his release.
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I find it saddening that people are quite ambivalent about this situation because it is happening in another country.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who is ambivalent about his situation? Most on this thread agreed that within our culture, what is happening to him is an atrocity.
I find it saddening that people are quite ambivalent about this situation because it is happening in another country.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who is ambivalent about his situation? Most on this thread agreed that within our culture, what is happening to him is an atrocity.
Stella
Well-Known Member
Sooty - I think abivalent is rather optimistic. Abivalent would be an improvement. I would use the terms apathetic and/or disinterested and uncaring.
Tia, we both know that you know what I mean and for me this isn't an issue to play mind games. Lets just leave it that I care about the human rights of people in other countries and you don't. I have the right to care and you have the right not to. Unfortunately, the people we are discussing don't have these rights or any others!
Tia, we both know that you know what I mean and for me this isn't an issue to play mind games. Lets just leave it that I care about the human rights of people in other countries and you don't. I have the right to care and you have the right not to. Unfortunately, the people we are discussing don't have these rights or any others!
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Tia, we both know that you know what I mean
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. I have never heard of the term "One World" views; which is why I ask you once again, who decides on the One World views?
[ QUOTE ]
I care about the human rights of people in other countries and you don't
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. I believe I was right with my first response to you - you haven't read what I have written.....OR you haven't understood a word of it.
I would like you to direct me to where I have said that I do not care of the human rights of people in other countries. A direct quote will be acceptable.
[ QUOTE ]
I have the right to care and you have the right not to.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who the hell do you think you are? How dare you decide to say what I think and what I don't! You are wrong by the way........
[ QUOTE ]
the people we are discussing don't have these rights or any others!
[/ QUOTE ]
The man we are discussing knows the Laws of his country. I don't even live in that country, have never visited it, but I certainly know that what he did broke their Laws.
Tia, we both know that you know what I mean
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. I have never heard of the term "One World" views; which is why I ask you once again, who decides on the One World views?
[ QUOTE ]
I care about the human rights of people in other countries and you don't
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. I believe I was right with my first response to you - you haven't read what I have written.....OR you haven't understood a word of it.
I would like you to direct me to where I have said that I do not care of the human rights of people in other countries. A direct quote will be acceptable.
[ QUOTE ]
I have the right to care and you have the right not to.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who the hell do you think you are? How dare you decide to say what I think and what I don't! You are wrong by the way........
[ QUOTE ]
the people we are discussing don't have these rights or any others!
[/ QUOTE ]
The man we are discussing knows the Laws of his country. I don't even live in that country, have never visited it, but I certainly know that what he did broke their Laws.
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
...the least we can do is sign a petition for his release.
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you know people haven't?
...the least we can do is sign a petition for his release.
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you know people haven't?
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Maybe that is the case, but I think that what is happening to him is an atrocity full stop.