Separation Anxiety/Backing/Ulcers

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bubsqueaks

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Just wanted to see if anybody else had experiences of our dilemma or any other advice to offer -
We have a herd of 3 at home, 2 mares 1 gelding.
The mare & gelding were bought as youngsters together at 6 months old & 2.5 years old & kept with our 25 year old retired mare.
We started groundwork with youngster as 3 year old, sent her away for backing as 4 year old but rider couldnt get near her to get on which wasnt the case at home where we had been leaning over her etc - Grade 4 ulcers found & treated with injections which cleared in 4 weeks.
Following ulcer treatment restarted groundwork last summer- she has fantastic work ethic but is feisty & I dont have the skill or facilities or help to do her myself despite getting somebody in for past 6 months it is too inconsistent to back her type.
So I have to send her away again which leads to my dilemma as I believe the root of the problem is separation anxiety from the old mare - this becomes evident not when we take youngster out but when we take the old mare away who she has been with since she was 6 months old & is now 5. The older mare hates her & dominates her quite nastily but youngster doesnt care!
The vet is going to put her on precautionary ulcer meds & we are going to do a weeks course of Trazodone to try to take the anxiety off for the first week of settling.
But wondering if there is anything else anybody could suggest or has experience of because it just has to work this time! I have obviously visited where she is going & hopefully chosen somebody suitable. I know she'll be a year older with more experience under her belt & over the next couple of months before she goes we are getting her out hacking again & back in the trailer. I am mulling over whether we should her move her somewhere locally first where I could still be handling her etc as she does trust me & obviously when she goes away for backing she loses us all!
 
Do you know what caused the ulcers the first time she had them? Was she investigated by the vet at the time for any underlying pain causing the ulcers? I only ask as sometimes separation anxiety may be a symptom of something else going on in her body.

What is she like when you take her for in hand walks away from the older mare? Does the still display separation anxiety?

If she was mine, I would opt for not sending her away, getting someone to back her at home, start off with regular hacking and work on the separation anxiety issues at home if possible.
 
MarvelVillis said:
Do you know what caused the ulcers the first time she had them? Was she investigated by the vet at the time for any underlying pain causing the ulcers? I only ask as sometimes separation anxiety may be a symptom of something else going on in her body.

What is she like when you take her for in hand walks away from the older mare? Does the still display separation anxiety?

If she was mine, I would opt for not sending her away, getting someone to back her at home, start off with regular hacking and work on the separation anxiety issues at home if possible.
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At the time the Vets did a work up & xrayd stiffles as she has slight sticky stifle - all clear. Before she went away we were leaning over her, weight on saddle etc, but away rider couldnt get anywhere near her so I do think we are looking at trigger stacking stress of separating from home plus the fact the ulcers cleared up in 4 weeks once on treatment at home.
If we take her out no she doesnt display any signs of anxiety but boldly walks away, loves being out, no calling, yes she is reactive to things that worry her like bikes but thats normal.
Yes I have gone through the process of trying to back her at home but I cannot get anybody to come consistently enough & she is the type that needs the consistency so I am stuck between a rock & a hard place, backed into a corner. Another reason why I cannot find anybody who can come consistently is her size of 13.2 so limited as to who I can use!
 
Personally I would take inconsistent training at home over risking a repeat of the reaction she displayed the last time she was sent away. If this stage of the backing process is associated twice with extreme stress then it will be more than twice as hard to overcome that bad experience.

Maybe the sticky stifle was enough the last time to push her over the edge, cause the ulcers and the extreme reactivity. If she is a noticeably different pony to the last time you sent her away, which she should be really if all pain issues have been resolved, you could risk it. If she isn't generally any calmer or more emotionally resilient you are taking a risk of just repeating the same thing. It is a rock and a hard place! But I think you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
 
smolmaus said:
Personally I would take inconsistent training at home over risking a repeat of the reaction she displayed the last time she was sent away. If this stage of the backing process is associated twice with extreme stress then it will be more than twice as hard to overcome that bad experience.

Maybe the sticky stifle was enough the last time to push her over the edge, cause the ulcers and the extreme reactivity. If she is a noticeably different pony to the last time you sent her away, which she should be really if all pain issues have been resolved, you could risk it. If she isn't generally any calmer or more emotionally resilient you are taking a risk of just repeating the same thing. It is a rock and a hard place! But I think you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
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Hmmm tricky isnt it! I think youre right about the lesser of two evils but carrying on inconsistently at home is almost impossible unfortunately & possibly dangerous. I dont believe the sticky stifle causes pain just annoyance but it was stress that caused the ulcers & that was caused by separation anxiety. She is calm at home but very opinionated (chestnut mare!) her work ethic is fantastic but she is seriously opinionated about her space I guess which makes crossing the line for backing fairly tricky. I was hoping that upon vets advice of putting her on the precautionary ulcer meds plus Trazodone for 1st week to stem the anxiety we could cross the line!
 
bubsqueaks said:
At the time the Vets did a work up & xrayd stiffles as she has slight sticky stifle - all clear. Before she went away we were leaning over her, weight on saddle etc, but away rider couldnt get anywhere near her so I do think we are looking at trigger stacking stress of separating from home plus the fact the ulcers cleared up in 4 weeks once on treatment at home.
If we take her out no she doesnt display any signs of anxiety but boldly walks away, loves being out, no calling, yes she is reactive to things that worry her like bikes but thats normal.
Yes I have gone through the process of trying to back her at home but I cannot get anybody to come consistently enough & she is the type that needs the consistency so I am stuck between a rock & a hard place, backed into a corner. Another reason why I cannot find anybody who can come consistently is her size of 13.2 so limited as to who I can use!
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Think you’d both be better working from home, especially since she’s already used to you sitting across her, and happily walks out in your neighbourhood.
can’t you find anyone to walk out with you (better still, cycle), and just take things steadily under saddle? If you are a competent and empathic rider, no reason at all for not continuing yourself. Obviously if she were tricky, or intended for specific performance discipline, that’s a bit different. Good luck.
 
Exasperated said:
Think you’d both be better working from home, especially since she’s already used to you sitting across her, and happily walks out in your neighbourhood.
can’t you find anyone to walk out with you (better still, cycle), and just take things steadily under saddle? If you are a competent and empathic rider, no reason at all for not continuing yourself. Obviously if she were tricky, or intended for specific performance discipline, that’s a bit different. Good luck.
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I havent sat on her only leant over her & Im 60 so no wont be riding her. Its so hard to know whats best to do as I feel damned if I do & damned if I dont - yes I was going to continue trying to back her at home but after speaking to the vet about the prevention advice decided I would try again sending her away. maybe I'll speak to the lady again who's helping me to see if she can do another couple of days.
 
bubsqueaks said:
Hmmm tricky isnt it! I think youre right about the lesser of two evils but carrying on inconsistently at home is almost impossible unfortunately & possibly dangerous. I dont believe the sticky stifle causes pain just annoyance but it was stress that caused the ulcers & that was caused by separation anxiety. She is calm at home but very opinionated (chestnut mare!) her work ethic is fantastic but she is seriously opinionated about her space I guess which makes crossing the line for backing fairly tricky. I was hoping that upon vets advice of putting her on the precautionary ulcer meds plus Trazodone for 1st week to stem the anxiety we could cross the line!
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Well tbh the main reason I commented is because our "minor" stifle issues caused a lot of stress. Just because it shouldn't be painful doesn't mean they don't think it's painful! When we got medication on board she was/is a different pony.

Separation anxiety is less of an issue now that there is no discomfort, less reactive, all round just a much happier pony day to day. I know she needs a top up on meds as the spooky, reactive behaviour comes back, there is rarely a visible lameness as in our case the problems are bilateral. All that to say, be careful of ruling out pain completely even if the pony trots up sound and the vet can't find anything. Over reactive behaviour is as much a symptom as a limp.
 
bubsqueaks said:
Thankyou everybody its helped me have a rethink & loose some more sleep! But Im off to visit a local lady that does freelance too with a view to her starting at home & maybe me taking her to her yard frequently - will see how we go.
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That sounds like a sensible approach! Hope it all goes well - keep us updated!
 
MarvelVillis said:
That sounds like a sensible approach! Hope it all goes well - keep us updated!
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Went to visit the local yard/lady & its a no go as just didnt sit right at all.
We did some practice loading at the weekend which went horribly wrong so Im getting a horse behaviourist out to help me with that & her anxiety to see where we go from there.
 
bubsqueaks said:
Went to visit the local yard/lady & its a no go as just didnt sit right at all.
We did some practice loading at the weekend which went horribly wrong so Im getting a horse behaviourist out to help me with that & her anxiety to see where we go from there.
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Excellent plan. I have never made such progress with my pony as I have since we got a behaviourist on board!

(Do check qualifications tho as behaviourist is not a protected term!!)
 
smolmaus said:
Excellent plan. I have never made such progress with my pony as I have since we got a behaviourist on board!

(Do check qualifications tho as behaviourist is not a protected term!!)
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That's lovely to hear - yes will check out her qualifications - feel better already following another sleepless night about her!
 
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