Separation anxiety

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Jingleballs

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So we did something stupid today!

New pup had her first day of her normal weekly routine which involved spending the day with my parents.

All went well, they had to leave her for an hour while they nipped out but she was apparently fine when shut in their large hallway but was very happy when they returned (she always greets you like long lost friend!).

Anyway, tonight, me and OH had to go and collect a grate for the car as she doesn't travel well in a harness.

We popped her in her crate and assumed that she'd be fine for the 30 minutes we were out - we were so wrong!

We got home to find she'd managed to open her crate (I think I hadn't shut it properly - bad me). She was barking and howling in the hallway when we got home but we weren't sure if she'd been doing that the whole time or just when she saw us - again she was uber excited when we went in but we just ignored her until she calmed down.

To test what happened, I popped her in her crate again and we left the house - cue howling/screeching/wailing - noises that I've never heard a dog make before - so that answered that question then.

So tonight, we've been trying some "tough love" - shutting her out of the living room for short period, not letting her follow us about, I've been putting her in her crate which is in our bedroom for short periods of time, shutting the bedroom door and leaving - I managed to build her up to 3 minutes before she starts. We've also been really distinguishing between times when we pay her attention i.e. when we call her to us and when we ignore us.

My parents, who look after her during the day, will be told to do the same things with her.

Are we on the right track? She's only been with us since Friday, we're at least her 3rd home in her life & she spent time at a rehoming centre - poor thing is only a year old. She's become very attached to me very quickly which hints at her insecurity and uncertainty.

We were told she was fully crate trained and spent 7 hours a day in the crate albeit there were other dogs loose in the house but she was crated in the kitchen on her own. This is why we assumed, wrongly I'll admit, that she'd be fine. She's currently crated at night with no issue and as I type this in bed is snoring away in her bed - her crate is partially covered so she can't see me but obviously knows I'm here.

I totally understand that this is an unsettling time for her but I just want to ensure we do the right things and don't reinforce any bad behavior. The only worrying thing is that my parents do have to be out and about for an hour or so a few times a week which may cause issues as I don't imagine this issue will just magically fix itself overnight!

Any hints/tips/advice welcome!!
 
Lévrier;12194644 said:
Ask Cayla....only listen to Cayla......she is the expert :) :) :)
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Thank you - is Cayla on fb at all?? She had pm'd me and said she wasn't on here as much any more. I'm hoping to get a copy of her rehoming guide but might need the crating one too

The whole incident really stressed me out actually - firstly because we were so stupid to just assume she'd be fine, and secondly because of how upset she seemed to get.
 
I've just messaged on her FB, begging her to come back to HHO and impart her knowledge :)

Try not to get too stressed, I know how hard it can be but she will pick up on your stress and it might make her worse? It sounds to me like you are doing just the right things, building up her resilience to being left and you not being around, I suppose previously she has been used to other dogs being around when she was left. It can be overcome though, don't despair :)
 
Lévrier;12194674 said:
I've just messaged on her FB, begging her to come back to HHO and impart her knowledge :)

Try not to get too stressed, I know how hard it can be but she will pick up on your stress and it might make her worse? It sounds to me like you are doing just the right things, building up her resilience to being left and you not being around, I suppose previously she has been used to other dogs being around when she was left. It can be overcome though, don't despair :)
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Thank you! She's still snoozing in her crate - I managed to leave the room for 15 minutes to take a phone call and then pop down stairs without a peep - she must have tired herself out but still shows that she is capable of being on her own (albeit when tired!!)

Spoke to my parents to explain how then need to be with her to ensure we are consistent - it does seem like she may have been howling the full time when she was left at theirs as they heard her as soon as they got out the car :(
 
First of all get her out of the bedroom it's your space and pup needs to learn that. 7 hours a day in a crate. Well if there were other dogs about that gives her something to do but there is no way a pup should spend that sort of time in a crate. Have never crated any of mine. They have the run of the house. I think your pup is very confused, needs stimulating to take her mind off things. Get her out of the crate put a bed in the lounge and let her be a pup learning and discovering what life is about.
 
Cayla has kindly sent me her rehoming and crating guides. It looks like we are on the right track and just need to re introduce the crate during the day when we are at home so that she gets used to it.

Hopefully the fact that she's been crated during the day previously (although always with other dogs for company) means that she should adapt quite quickly.

She slept in her crate again all night without a sound (other than some snoring). She was then happy to lay on our bed on her own while we were both in other rooms getting ready.

Other good news is that she travelled brilliantly in the car this morning with the grate in the boot :D She wasn't sick and no crying so that's an achievement too :D
 
To be honest being in the bedroom is fine imo and although I don't do it, it is the easiest way with a dog with heightened SA (as long as she is crated) with the crate then becomes hugely positive, and its a means you can eventually move the crate to a more perminent location without a peep. (so no on the bed) missus:p as this is her once again in "your space" instead of in "hers space" within "your space".;)
I would hazard a guess it's the disappearing of her doggy company that has unsettled her and not the actual crate. It is true its a lot easier to crate them with other dogs around but still not that hard to do it when they are an only dog, as long as your routine is spot on and you understand why the anxiety manifests it's self and how we as owners create it then you will get her settles in her own company in no time, I can literally do it in a day now with any new arrival but my routine is rigid.
How old is she?, I never sent a puppy guide but I will send one of those 2 as I thought she was an adult :)
 
CAYLA said:
To be honest being in the bedroom is fine imo and although I don't do it, it is the easiest way with a dog with heightened SA (as long as she is crated) with the crate then becomes hugely positive, and its a means you can eventually move the crate to a more perminent location without a peep. (so no on the bed) missus:p as this is her once again in "your space" instead of in "hers space" within "your space".;)
I would hazard a guess it's the disappearing of her doggy company that has unsettled her and not the actual crate. It is true its a lot easier to crate them with other dogs around but still not that hard to do it when they are an only dog, as long as your routine is spot on and you understand why the anxiety manifests it's self and how we as owners create it then you will get her settles in her own company in no time, I can literally do it in a day now with any new arrival but my routine is rigid.
How old is she?, I never sent a puppy guide but I will send one of those 2 as I thought she was an adult :)
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Thanks Cayla - we'll keep her out of the bed (as much as I love puppy cuddles). She can go back in the crate with a treat while we get ready.

Age wise - she's anywhere between 11 and 14 months and still very puppy like. Came from SSPCA originally so very much unknown.

That's good to hear that you can do it so quickly - after last night I've changed my behaviour around her - I'm practically ignoring her unless I call her to me.

It has made me pine for my old boy - he was so independant that he didn't give a toss what you were doing - he just went and did his own thing.
 
I don't know how general this would be (or helpful) but I got a rescue this year she's 5 and has now had 4 homes including myself. She was very similarl to what your describing, she would follow me everywhere, when we left her the first time she chewed the door(!! -didn't like the door anyway! But not the point haha) and would be heavily panting which we guessed was through stress. But now that she knows she's here for good she's settled in perfectly, within about a month she would be happy to choose to leave me and if we went out we left he tv on and she was calm when we got back albeit a little excited but not panting. She just probably needs a bit of time and once she's in a routine and knows that's her home now she'll relax more.
Good luck :)
 
Malibu2 said:
I don't know how general this would be (or helpful) but I got a rescue this year she's 5 and has now had 4 homes including myself. She was very similarl to what your describing, she would follow me everywhere, when we left her the first time she chewed the door(!! -didn't like the door anyway! But not the point haha) and would be heavily panting which we guessed was through stress. But now that she knows she's here for good she's settled in perfectly, within about a month she would be happy to choose to leave me and if we went out we left he tv on and she was calm when we got back albeit a little excited but not panting. She just probably needs a bit of time and once she's in a routine and knows that's her home now she'll relax more.
Good luck :)
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Thanks Malibu - I absolutely accept that this is settling behaviour as she adjusts. I feel so sorry for the poor girl having so much upheaval in her short life.

So did you just continue to leave your dog and let her get used to it or did you use the crating method?

The crate does seem to be something that is familar to her - as I mentioned, she sleeps all night with not a peep and I don't fancy dealing with any damage as we are hoping to move home in about 12 months and don't want to have to redo all the doors/paint work because she's damaged it.

She's much calmer at my parents today - their crate is arriving later and I've informed them that she should spend most of the day in there with her treats, be fed in there and only out for exercise/play time. I've also told my dad to stop letting her follow him around and he did leave her in the living room for a short time wiht no issue and will he keeping her indoors when he goes for his cigarette break - I've told him not to respond to the barking/whining and to tell her to be quite and then only go back in when she's settled. Hopefully she'll soon learn! Thankfully she is very food focused so I'm going to get some more chews for her today - pigs ears etc - things that are only for her when she's in her crate.
 
I didn't crate but we personally didn't feel the need but It may help yours. Yours may feel more happy having a safe place in the crate and we were considering one for ours but she seemed to adjust reasonably quickly. I just wanted to say something cause when we had ours it was a bit odd that suddenly this dog was following me everywhere! But she's now happy to go places alone and stay at home alone. Mine also very food orientated so could leave treats as we left! Also remember reading not to make a fuss as you leave or when you eh back which I think you mentioned anyway but that helped her too.
Just wanted to give my experience as now mine I wouldn't change for the world and has no issues wherever she's left :)
 
Thanks for sharing your experience Malibu!

Things are going well today so far. My dad popped out for a ciggie and although she intially tried to follow, when he went back in doors she was back up on the sofa sleeping and is no longer following him about the house.

Small steps but all going in the right direction!
 
Argh!!!!!!!!!! My parents are absolute idiots!

Phoned again to see how Rowan is, all well - she's nice and calm, not so fussed about following them around etc.

I explained again what we need to do with the crate to build up the periods when she is in the crate and when she is alone - yep, yep all understood and makes sense.

Then my idiot mother turns round and says "she'll be left for a few hours tomorrow while we go visit your gran and we are both out for a couple of hours again on Thursday"

WTF!!!! The can't seen to get the idea through their head that she won't be fine alone - that most likely she will bark and howl until they come back and will get so stressed and upset that next time round it will be even worse and will completely undo the work we have done so far.

When I flagged this all I got was a "we're not cancelling our plans" message. I've explained that this won't be forever and that with a consistent approach we'll hopefully have it solved within a few weeks but god forbid the dog even slightly inconvenience despite the fact that they were the ones who put pressure on for me to get another dog so quickly!

I am so stressed out now that we won't be able to solve her issues with this current arrangement and will end up doing the unthinkable and giving her back!!!
 
Jingleballs said:
Argh!!!!!!!!!! My parents are absolute idiots!

Phoned again to see how Rowan is, all well - she's nice and calm, not so fussed about following them around etc.

I explained again what we need to do with the crate to build up the periods when she is in the crate and when she is alone - yep, yep all understood and makes sense.

Then my idiot mother turns round and says "she'll be left for a few hours tomorrow while we go visit your gran and we are both out for a couple of hours again on Thursday"

WTF!!!! The can't seen to get the idea through their head that she won't be fine alone - that most likely she will bark and howl until they come back and will get so stressed and upset that next time round it will be even worse and will completely undo the work we have done so far.

When I flagged this all I got was a "we're not cancelling our plans" message. I've explained that this won't be forever and that with a consistent approach we'll hopefully have it solved within a few weeks but god forbid the dog even slightly inconvenience despite the fact that they were the ones who put pressure on for me to get another dog so quickly!

I am so stressed out now that we won't be able to solve her issues with this current arrangement and will end up doing the unthinkable and giving her back!!!
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whilst I understand your frustration she is your dog not theirs and if you cannot/do not change your plans (book time off work) to settle a new addition in why should they?

just take a deep breath and think outside the box as to wether you can work something out.

I had a foster for 6 weeks recently and I had to change plans and some work to accommodate her in the first week or so until she settled
 
twiggy2 said:
whilst I understand your frustration she is your dog not theirs and if you cannot/do not change your plans (book time off work) to settle a new addition in why should they?

just take a deep breath and think outside the box as to wether you can work something out.

I had a foster for 6 weeks recently and I had to change plans and some work to accommodate her in the first week or so until she settled
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But the whole foundation of us getting a new dog is that they said they were willing to look after her and it would effectively be a family dog! The actually asked to look after her as we were considering getting a dog walker therefore this influenced certain things such as what dog we got.

I can shift some things around so that I can be at home some days but at such short notice it's not always as simple as that!
 
Jingleballs said:
But the whole foundation of us getting a new dog is that they said they were willing to look after her and it would effectively be a family dog! The actually asked to look after her as we were considering getting a dog walker therefore this influenced certain things such as what dog we got.

I can shift some things around so that I can be at home some days but at such short notice it's not always as simple as that!
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like I say I can understand your frustration but do you really expect them to put their life on hold?

it sounds like they were not expecting such a big commitment, I look after friends dogs but they have to fit around my life not the other way round
 
twiggy2 said:
like I say I can understand your frustration but do you really expect them to put their life on hold?

it sounds like they were not expecting such a big commitment, I look after friends dogs but they have to fit around my life not the other way round
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I'm asking them to help us settle her into a routine over the next couple of weeks - it's a short term adjustment that will be frustrating for all of us but will help her settle into her new routine. Given that they pushed for this dog (they actually picked her not me!) then I think they should be willing to make some temporary sacrifices in the very short term. Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable.
 
Jingleballs said:
I'm asking them to help us settle her into a routine over the next couple of weeks - it's a short term adjustment that will be frustrating for all of us but will help her settle into her new routine. Given that they pushed for this dog (they actually picked her not me!) then I think they should be willing to make some temporary sacrifices in the very short term. Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable.
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If they chose her then I agree they should be willing to help her settle in, maybe they were not aware it would be so restricting for them-I hope you get it sorted
 
twiggy2 said:
If they chose her then I agree they should be willing to help her settle in, maybe they were not aware it would be so restricting for them-I hope you get it sorted
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I hope so too - I honestly feel sick about the whole thing and am finding it quite upsetting.

OH and I have got time booked off over Christmas so we are thinking that maybe we just have to muddle through at the moment and try and properly tack the issue while we are off!
 
Could she go to a dog day care centre until you have the time off for Christmas and then start your routine and don't rely on your parents. Invest in time with her now and look for professional day care.
 
Quick update on my girl. We did some work last night on popping her in and out of the crate.

OH played with her until she got sleepy and then popped her into the crate with a lambs ear treat. She was a bit unsettled even with us in the room which I didn't really understand - she was whining and wailing but not stressed - she was actually just leisurly rolling about - on her back, paws in the air but not panting/signs of distress.

Once she'd quietened down she got out for a bit - I then left and she cried for me a bit (I'm still pretty much ignoring her in an attempt to break this bond she seems to have with me - she's the same with my dad).

She had a couple more short sessions in crate with a treat while OH pottered about and was ok.

We then did a test and while she was settled, both popped outside to see what happened - she wasn't crated at this point and it really was just a test to see what she did - we could hear her whining a little but but not excessively and she didn't seem distressed (we could see her through the window but she couldn't see us).

She was however very vocal and excited when we got home so she got totally ignored and quickly calmed down and fell asleep in the living room rug. We were actually able to both leave her in there and shut the door (it's glass doors so not such a "solid" barrier) she stayed there on her own for a while until OH went back downstairs.

She was then crated while I was in bed on the computer - she was fine - a couple of squeaks while I was eating my toast but that was her mooching rather than upset.

Went out for her evening walk and then happily into the crate and slept all night again without a peep. This morning I let her out, she did her business and then I popped her back in with some treats while OH and I got ready for work - neither of us were in the room with her during this and she was fine - a couple of small whimpers but not constant crying and once she'd settled we let her out again.

She's at my parents today and has been fed and given her treats in the crate and shut in a couple of times while they were in - she cried a bit when my dad went out but settled quickly. My parents are also going to try and pop in and out the house a few times today just out to the garden where they can hear but she can't see them and go in again with no fuss.

I'm also going to maybe try a thundershirt for her to see if that also helps. She's not naturally an anxious dog - our old boy could be anxious but was quite independant - she's strange and we still can't quite work her out.

Going to give her a right good run about tonight - possibly off lead - and really tire her out to see how she is in the crate afterwards with some company and some short periods along.

Oh and I want to get her some raw bones - do people just get stuff from the butcher? What sort of stuff do you use to keep them amused for long periods?
 
I don't tend to feed raw bones as treats, even though my dogs are on a raw diet - I would use a Kong toy stuffed with various interesting treats? If the dog takes to them, they can keep a dog occupied for ages :)

I know this will be stating the obvious but please, please be careful with your glass doors - I had a greyhound who tried to escape through a glass panelled door when she was frightened by fireworks, I came back to a house like an abattoir with blood sprayed everywhere and she very nearly slashed the main vein in her leg which would have meant she would have bled to death before I could get her to a vet :( I was so lucky!
 
Well done, it sounds as if you're trying really hard and succeeding :) What about trying a stag bar while she's crated, they last a long time even with a dedicated chewer! I do love a lurcher, when are we going to have a pic ?
 
can't advise about crating, of the howling on seperation, but my boy, who i've had since 1st october, (2yo GSD, i'm his 3rd home, last one was just 6 weeks!) when i first got him he was very clingy and i could not walk any where in the house without being followed. but very quickly this has reduced, he still does sometimes, as he is nosey and wants to see what is happening, but not always, i think you may be worrying unnecessarily because you were used to a very independent dog. she may just want to see what is going on as she is young and inquisitive.
hope the crating helps her learn to be left alone :) i'm sure she will learn you will come back and time on her own can be fun- Harvey loves when i go out as he gets a pigs ear! doesn't even look up when i go out the door now he has his routine of pigs ear on his bed!
 
Thanks all - parents left her a few more times today with no issue.

I went to yard tonight and OH gave her a kong stuffed with peanut butter and left her for 20 minutes, sat outside just by the door and didn't hear a peep although she was excited when he went back in.

I got home from the yard after a couple of hours and was greeted by squeals, yelps, howls of excitement - all got ignored until she calmed down.

She does sniff at me excessively whenever I've been out without her - not sure if she's just curious or what.

OH and parents will continue the work tomorrow and them I might work from home on Friday and spend a fair bit of time popping in and out as it's me that she's attached to and seemed to have the worse reaction when I leave.
 
Another positive update today!

Rowan slept in her crate all night even with the door open and happily went back in there to snooze while OH and i got ready to work.

She wasn't sick in the car this morning and was then left for 30 minutes at my parents with no issue and was then left for an hour and a half with her frozen kong and treat ball - again with no issue other than some slight over excitement when they got home.

It seems she is happier being left if she is out of her crate which is fine - crating her isn't particularly important to us but as we'd been told she was crate trained we though it would be better for her to keep it up.

So pleased with her - hoping that with lots of repetition like this she'll very quickly learn that no one is going to leave her for long!
 
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