Separation Anxiety!!

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2awesomenatives

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Looking for advice and what has worked for others.

I have a New Forest and a Dartmoor that have been together since babies. My Dartmoor has now become more of a companion to my New Forest, apart from being taken out for walks a few times a week by a young girl and her dad.
My New Forest is becoming worse every time the Dartmoor is taken out of the field, he just cant cope on his own. He doesnt actually care that he is separated from his mate (he comes away from the dartmoor and doesnt look back) its more that he has FOMO and doesnt like the attention not being on him.
I cant always be around when the girl comes down to take my Dartmoor out so I cant keep an eye on the situation. We have tried putting a treat ball in the field, piles of hay in the field, feeding dinner so that he is pre-occupied.......but nothing is working and the New forest spends the whole time galloping round the field until Dartmoor returns :-/

Any advice would be much appreciated!
 
Can he see other horses or is he completely alone when the Dartmoor goes out? If he’s completely alone then it’s quite a usual reaction to be upset. You could take on a small companion from a charity to fix that problem.
 
Aa above, if he can't see other horses then it's natural he'd be upset- when he's taken out on his own he isn't really on his own, he has a human with him. If he's left in the field with no horses or humans he will likely feel quite insecure.
 
maya2008 said:
Can he see other horses or is he completely alone when the Dartmoor goes out? If he’s completely alone then it’s quite a usual reaction to be upset. You could take on a small companion from a charity to fix that problem.
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He can see others and he can see across the whole yard too. I will definitely not be taking on another one , hay this winter has cost an arm and a leg as it is 🤣
 
SpeedyPony said:
Can you share fields with another livery? That way he'd have another companion but without the costs.
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Unfortunatley, the fields on our yard aren't big enough for more than 2........ and also, none of the current liveried would be happy to share as they are all on individual turnout and that's the way the owners like it!
 
Completely normal manifestation of separation anxiety. He is not suffering from FOMO but is worried that no members of his social group are with him. Mine was worse if anything as he was upset by any member of his social group leaving and that included horses in the adjacent field (even when his companion remained with him). It is an exceptionally difficult thing to 'fix' because it means asking them to go against their basic nature when they've already experienced high levels of stress as a result of the problem. Mine required complete social stability, which I was prepared to arrange. The obvious solution is to stop taking the Dartmoor out.
 
2awesomenatives said:
He doesnt actually care that he is separated from his mate (he comes away from the dartmoor and doesnt look back) its more that he has FOMO and doesnt like the attention not being on him.
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He is feeling unsafe, which is natural.

You can work on helping him feel safer. You can start taking his friend away in a managed way, so for very short periods, as short as the pony needs that he doesn't get to the point of panic, then gradually extend the duration. Every time he panics about being on his own, he is teaching himself that it is the way he needs to behave so that his friend comes back. If you want to stop him panicking he needs to be set up so that he doesn't have to, his friend will come back well before he gets upset.

This will inconvenience the humans in the situation but I think that is going to be necessary for the well being of the pony. The only other solutions are additional companionship or never taking his friend away.
 
I feel your pain as my NF mare has always had extreme seperation anxiety, and even when I had 3, she was so attached to my gelding that my other horse wouldn't be enough to keep her settled, so actually adding an extra horse probably wouldn't help. I'm luckily at a yard now that I have access to a small pen attached to another horse's field, so I take her away (she is ok if she's the one taken away, rather than the one left behind) and put her with another horse. She has no idea that my other horse is off riding or out for the day.
Before this yard, I had to shut her in a stable with a large mirror. It didn't cure it but prevented her having a nervous breakdown. Have you got a stable you can put a mirror in?
 
smolmaus said:
He is feeling unsafe, which is natural.

You can work on helping him feel safer. You can start taking his friend away in a managed way, so for very short periods, as short as the pony needs that he doesn't get to the point of panic, then gradually extend the duration. Every time he panics about being on his own, he is teaching himself that it is the way he needs to behave so that his friend comes back. If you want to stop him panicking he needs to be set up so that he doesn't have to, his friend will come back well before he gets upset.

This will inconvenience the humans in the situation but I think that is going to be necessary for the well being of the pony. The only other solutions are additional companionship or never taking his friend away.
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Worth adding that the short managed period of separation may at first be as seemingly minor as approaching the dartmoor with a headcollar. If this elicits a reaction from your NF this is where his anxiety starts (because he's learned what that means). That's why it can be a very long slow process to manage and generally people skip steps and wonder why they can't make progress.
 
I do have a stable, but they are opposite each other. If he goes in the stable, and the dartmoor is tied up outside the opposite stable, then taken away, my NF goes crazy in his stable! If its the other way around and the NF is taken out of the field, my Dartmoor will happily stay in the field all day long, even for a weekend when i am away at camp with my NF!
It isnt fair to never take my Dartmoor out of the field, he deserves one on one time aswell. Its just finding a solution to keep my NF from fretting so much. We have been doing it in short spurt for the past few months but its getting worse, rather than better!
 
Burnttoast said:
Completely normal manifestation of separation anxiety. He is not suffering from FOMO but is worried that no members of his social group are with him. Mine was worse if anything as he was upset by any member of his social group leaving and that included horses in the adjacent field (even when his companion remained with him). It is an exceptionally difficult thing to 'fix' because it means asking them to go against their basic nature when they've already experienced high levels of stress as a result of the problem. Mine required complete social stability, which I was prepared to arrange. The obvious solution is to stop taking the Dartmoor out.
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Ride one, lead the other, if the girl is capable?
If there is no other physical presence of pony, sheep, whatever he could go in with, you absolutely do not want stressful, wall of death nonsense in the paddock.
You are effectively weaning ponies that have spent a lot longer as dependents than the average mare and foal.
Yes, adults can slowly be weaned away and effectively ‘cured’ of separation anxiety, but immediate safety would be into the stable with a mirror and a full top door grille, plenty of loose hay, each time the other one is ridden. The NF would be far safer like that, and like many foals whose dams have had to work for a few hours, will eventually settle.
If no one really wants to ride the dartmoor, or the dartmoor isn’t benefitting from exercise, then fair enough - just keep as a pair of pets.
 
2awesomenatives said:
I do have a stable, but they are opposite each other. If he goes in the stable, and the dartmoor is tied up outside the opposite stable, then taken away, my NF goes crazy in his stable! If its the other way around and the NF is taken out of the field, my Dartmoor will happily stay in the field all day long, even for a weekend when i am away at camp with my NF!
It isnt fair to never take my Dartmoor out of the field, he deserves one on one time aswell. Its just finding a solution to keep my NF from fretting so much. We have been doing it in short spurt for the past few months but its getting worse, rather than better!
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The comments already posted give you all the information you need tbh. Your NF is frightened, what you have been doing is making him worse, doing more of that won't make him better. Take them out together if you feel the dartmoor requires time with a human as opposed to time with another horse, or interact with the dartmoor in the field.
 
2awesomenatives said:
We have been doing it in short spurt for the past few months but its getting worse, rather than better!
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This tells you that he is not learning what you want him to learn. He is being "allowed" to panic and then his friend comes back. So in his mind he has to panic about it or his friend won't come back! He is just linking simple actions with results.

The duration needs to be shorter so he is CALM. It has to be led by the pony here, not what the humans think the duration should be.
 
Exasperated said:
Ride one, lead the other, if the girl is capable?
If there is no other physical presence of pony, sheep, whatever he could go in with, you absolutely do not want stressful, wall of death nonsense in the paddock.
You are effectively weaning ponies that have spent a lot longer as dependents than the average mare and foal.
Yes, adults can slowly be weaned away and effectively ‘cured’ of separation anxiety, but immediate safety would be into the stable with a mirror and a full top door grille, plenty of loose hay, each time the other one is ridden. The NF would be far safer like that, and like many foals whose dams have had to work for a few hours, will eventually settle.
If no one really wants to ride the dartmoor, or the dartmoor isn’t benefitting from exercise, then fair enough - just keep as a pair of pets.
Click to expand...
Stressful, wall of death nonsense is also possible in the stable. 'Eventually settling' is neither ethical nor in fact a given.
 
Does he have a buddy next to him if they’re in individual paddocks? Is that buddy someone he likes? Could you ride with that horse and their owner regularly for a while so they can build a bond and the company he does have will be enough?
 
Exasperated said:
Ride one, lead the other, if the girl is capable?
If there is no other physical presence of pony, sheep, whatever he could go in with, you absolutely do not want stressful, wall of death nonsense in the paddock.
You are effectively weaning ponies that have spent a lot longer as dependents than the average mare and foal.
Yes, adults can slowly be weaned away and effectively ‘cured’ of separation anxiety, but immediate safety would be into the stable with a mirror and a full top door grille, plenty of loose hay, each time the other one is ridden. The NF would be far safer like that, and like many foals whose dams have had to work for a few hours, will eventually settle.
If no one really wants to ride the dartmoor, or the dartmoor isn’t benefitting from exercise, then fair enough - just keep as a pair of pets.
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The girl doesnt ride, she walks him in hand, as isnt experienced enough to manage both.
The Dartmoor needs to be exercised to keep his weight down, he can be ridden but unfortunately i have had to many timewasters share him and have let him pick up bad habits!
I guess using the stable will be a better option to use rather than him being in the field, hopefully less to cause an accident or injury.
 
Does the Dartmoor have to walk past his stable to get out on her walks? If not, could you practice bringing the NF in alone for his dinner, perhaps build up to his dinner and some hay, then once he's settled in the routine of coming into the stable alone for an hour or so, start taking the Dartmoor out? That would probably only work if he won't see the Dartmoor leave though.
 
maya2008 said:
Does he have a buddy next to him if they’re in individual paddocks? Is that buddy someone he likes? Could you ride with that horse and their owner regularly for a while so they can build a bond and the company he does have will be enough?
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He does have a pony next to him and a horse behind but he isn't really interested in them! the pony isnt ridden and the horse's owner only ever rides out at 7am, which i cant do :-/
we are on a fairly quite yard with only a few horses, all individually turned out apart from my 2. I have wondered whether moving to a busier yard would be better as there will be more going on and more horses around!
 
SpeedyPony said:
Does the Dartmoor have to walk past his stable to get out on her walks? If not, could you practice bringing the NF in alone for his dinner, perhaps build up to his dinner and some hay, then once he's settled in the routine of coming into the stable alone for an hour or so, start taking the Dartmoor out? That would probably only work if he won't see the Dartmoor leave though.
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If my NF is taken away from the Dartmoor and put in his stable, he couldn't care less, he can be in the barn on his own and doesnt bat an eyelid. Its when the Dartmoor taken away from him that he cant cope with.
 
2awesomenatives said:
If my NF is taken away from the Dartmoor and put in his stable, he couldn't care less, he can be in the barn on his own and doesnt bat an eyelid. Its when the Dartmoor taken away from him that he cant cope with.
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In that case it's probably easiest to ask the young lass and her dad to bring him in first, before taking the Dartmoor out, if you can't be there when they go out.
 
I have experience of this. A mare who would do the wall of death and self harm when left alone. In her case coming into the stable was made a pleasing experience with feed and nice interesting things and to start with as she also had a fear of being confined I started just feeding her with the door open and half in half out and gradually built up the time spent in it. She did improve but as soon as anything moved she would panic. Now in her case she had been kept alone and was genuinely terrified of being left alone again. Sadly we never did manage to completely resolve it and tbh I didn't expect her to. She was being a horse wanting her companions of her own kind she had been missing so much. I also have a gelding who is absolutely smitten with mares. Not in a riggy way but more of a mum holding his hand kind of way. Now my mare hates him and would actually happily kick him out the field. She backs up to him squealing but still my gelding wants to be with her. I put him on agnus castus and it has calmed the slightly needy behaviour a little but not cured it. This morning he came in alone for the farrier and tied up with a garlic lick and a haynet and didn't call once. He did however have to be reminded of his manners going back out wanting to rush back to her. The key is finding out what the issue is. Is it a fear of death being alone separation which my mare had or just a need for another horse. From what you've said I'd work on building the time you spend with him to make it happy and inviting and him happy to substitute your company for that of his friend.
 
There's a useful and fairly detailed breakdown of how small the training steps need to be from the WHW site. Better than I could put, so I'll quote:


"We recommend breaking the process of being left on their own down into small, manageable steps. Ideally you should be working well within your horse’s comfort zone meaning that their behaviour when left by the other horse does not change. We’ll call the horse being left in the stable or field a companion for this section of the article.

Stressed, panicky horses simply can’t learn what you want them to and may injure themselves or those around them. Although it may seem very time-consuming to break the process down into small steps, the chances of a successful outcome are much higher if they remain calm, and it will be far less stressful for all involved. It is important to monitor the behaviour of both the horse being left and the horse leaving, to ensure neither becomes stressed or displays behaviours that could lead to injury of themselves or the handler. It is also worth noting that, in some cases, the companion may become so distraught at being left for even a small amount of time that the safest option for all involved is to get a companion to stay with them in the field and/or stable.

It’s important to note that, throughout this process, you want to make sure that both horses remain calm. Once they become stressed, they will start forming a negative emotional association around being apart, which will risk setting your training back. It is therefore important to progress in small steps. If one of the horses starts becoming worried, go back to a distance they are both comfortable with and start building up from there again.

​

The first step in the process of teaching your companion to be left alone might be as small as walking up to the horse you ultimately want to take away, putting their headcollar on and then taking it off again and walking away. Signs to watch out for throughout the training process that may indicate that the companion is stressed include alert posture, agitated behaviour such as walking or trotting around, or calling to their friend.

Steps you could break the training process down into might be:

  • Catching the horse you want to take away, putting their headcollar on and then removing it again and walking away
  • Catching your horse, walking them across the paddock a short distance and letting them go again
  • Walking your horse to the gate and letting them go again
  • Taking your horse out of the gate and then putting them back in again straight away
  • Taking your horse out of the gate, waiting a short while and putting them back in again
  • Walking your horse a very short distance away outside the gate and then putting them back
  • Walking your horse a short distance away outside the gate, waiting a minute and then putting them back
  • Repeating the previous step, gradually increasing EITHER the time spent waiting OR the distance you take the friend away, but not both at the same time.
Ideally you will repeat the last step many times, very gradually increasing either the time spent away or the distance until you can take your horse out of sight and your companion is completely comfortable being left. You can then gradually increase the time your horse spends out of sight of their companion until you have built up to the amount of time that you would like them to be comfortable being left alone for. For example, if you would normally take your horse out hacking for an hour, you want your companion to be secure being alone for an hour before you take your horse out for a hack.

It can be well worth repeating each step multiple times to ensure that your companion really is OK with that point in the process before moving on to the next stage. If they start to get worried, you may need to go several steps backwards to get them re-established before gradually moving forwards again. You can also pair the separation with something positive, so for example when you take your horse out put a treat ball or lick in for the companion.

If your companion really struggles with learning to be left on their own, you may find that it helps to switch the horses’ roles at the start of the process – so your companion first learns to be taken away from their friend. Once they’ve learned to be on their own by being taken away (rather than being left) and are comfortable with that, you can switch the roles again and start working on taking away their friend. Another strategy that can really help some horses is to bring them in at the same time as the one you want to take away, letting them stand in for a couple of minutes and then turning your companion horse back out. Some horses seem to find it easier to be put out in an empty paddock than to watch their friend being taken away.

It can also be well worth incorporating being left alone briefly into your companion’s daily routine, for example by turning them out first, waiting a few minutes and then putting their friend out. The length of time could be gradually built up, until eventually you might turn the companion out, take your other horse out for a ride and then turn them out too. "

My companion pony has been stabled and then corralled for laminitis management recently and I've been lucky to be able to keep his friend within line of sight initially, and now he's coping with being separated for periods of time. Effectively he's had a stepwise graded exposure to separation as an unplanned side effect of managing his diet. I think your pair sound more tricky than mine, hope you find a solution or at least an improvement. It's a lot of work, but worthwhile
 
Burnttoast said:
Stressful, wall of death nonsense is also possible in the stable. 'Eventually settling' is neither ethical nor in fact a given.
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It is, but provided the stable isn’t full of unnecessary fittings and projections, is considerably safer than a field, and considerably less likely the horse attempts to race round indefinitely.
Far more typically: initial screaming, staring through the grille, then at the mirror, or messing with the hay. If the NF had to be sold and move on, if the Dartmoor dropped dead - they would be separated, full stop. Ethically, the owner needs the least hazardous course to keep her ponies safe and exercised, within whatever constraints exist.
 
SpeedyPony said:
In that case it's probably easiest to ask the young lass and her dad to bring him in first, before taking the Dartmoor out, if you can't be there when they go out.
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Absolutely, even Dad walks round the back with NF then puts him straight back in the stable, while daughter makes good her escape out of sight with the Dartmoor.
 
Exasperated said:
It is, but provided the stable isn’t full of unnecessary fittings and projections, is considerably safer than a field, and considerably less likely the horse attempts to race round indefinitely.
Far more typically: initial screaming, staring through the grille, then at the mirror, or messing with the hay. If the NF had to be sold and move on, if the Dartmoor dropped dead - they would be separated, full stop. Ethically, the owner needs the least hazardous course to keep her ponies safe and exercised, within whatever constraints exist.
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In my experience, horses that will settle in a stable will settle in a field. Or, like mine, they can do the wall of death for as long as it takes for their friend to return, ignoring food, knocking over water buckets, churning the bed into a shitty mess (because of the constant shitting) and emerge with sweat literally running off them and so stressed they are unsafe to handle (that was an accidental occurrence, obviously not an attempt to get him to 'settle'). As it happens, the OP now says the pony is ok left on his own in a stable, so presumably they will do that rather than tackling the root issue, which also doesn't prepare him for any of the potential events you go on to mention.
 
2awesomenatives said:
If my NF is taken away from the Dartmoor and put in his stable, he couldn't care less, he can be in the barn on his own and doesnt bat an eyelid. It’s when the Dartmoor taken away from him that he cant cope with.
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Well, you’ve got your answer, then.
Burnttoast said:
In my experience, horses that will settle in a stable will settle in a field. Or, like mine, they can do the wall of death for as long as it takes for their friend to return, ignoring food, knocking over water buckets, churning the bed into a shitty mess (because of the constant shitting) and emerge with sweat literally running off them and so stressed they are unsafe to handle (that was an accidental occurrence, obviously not an attempt to get him to 'settle'). As it happens, the OP now says the pony is ok left on his own in a stable, so presumably they will do that rather than tackling the root issue, which also doesn't prepare him for any of the potential events you go on to mention.
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with respect, post 7, I cannot see that you have solved any problem or root issues at all - if your horses all behave like this - only masked it.
How long have you owned them for? Possibly post 23 might help.
Thankfully OP has a more immediately workable method.
 
Not read all replies so sorry…
Can you get them both in then turn the NF out on his own? Is he ok then? Or get them in, put him in his stable but the Dartmoor veers off out of sight while this is happening?
 
Exasperated said:
Well, you’ve got your answer, then.

with respect, post 7, I cannot see that you have solved any problem or root issues at all - if your horses all behave like this - only masked it.
How long have you owned them for? Possibly post 23 might help.
Thankfully OP has a more immediately workable method.
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Dont say with respect when you don’t intend to be respectful. I have only owned one with separation anxiety and it wasn't possible to resolve his anxiety (it had presumably been compounded over his extremely unsettled early life) but it was possible to manage it and he spend his final 8 years with me very happy. I have seen it dealt with, or not, by plenty of people - after all, it's not uncommon. It is extremely difficult to resolve severe separation anxiety and most attempts are fudges (including the people who keep their horses completely alone just so that they can ride it, and call that a solution).
 
Burnttoast said:
Dont say with respect when you don’t intend to be respectful. I have only owned one with separation anxiety and it wasn't possible to resolve his anxiety (it had presumably been compounded over his extremely unsettled early life) but it was possible to manage it and he spend his final 8 years with me very happy. I have seen it dealt with, or not, by plenty of people - after all, it's not uncommon. It is extremely difficult to resolve severe separation anxiety and most attempts are fudges (including the people who keep their horses completely alone just so that they can ride it, and call that a solution).
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Ok, so you have only ever owned one with separation anxiety, and that so extreme that whatever your attempts to resolve (no idea whether you tried the WHW, slow, incremental approach?) - you settled for management : with permanent company and complete social stability of all other horses in adjoining fields - and it worked for you for 8 years - all good, since that’s what you needed.
However on the basis of your experience, it isn’t realistic or helpful to suggest the OP never takes her Dartmoor off by himself, must always play with him in the field alongside the other, or ensure either another companion or complete social stability when that is simply not ‘do-able’. It’s not even desirable, nor necessary, as shown - not all horses with separation issues are like yours. Which is also good.
 
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