Seperation anxiety - getting dangerous

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Leanne1980

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My horse has always been stressy but after 5 years at the previous stable he mellowed and got used to having to come in and be in alone. However we have been going through rehab for suspensory ligament damage and moved yards so he could have better facilities and turn out not in a herd. This was in December. He is in a stable block were there is only two horses - him and another. Every time the other horse goes out he goes mental, bucking, rearing and trying to get over his door. As soon as the other horse comes back his behaviour instantly stops. At the weekend i tried to tie him up outside and he saw his friend going to the field, he spun and galloped off to them. When i caught him he just dragged me about into the wall grazing my arm etc. He then went in the field and galloped round and round for an hour ignoring all the other horses around him shouting for the other horse in the other field. Yesterday he was out all day, came in and his neighbour went out for 20 mins which results in him cornering me in the stable bucking at me (i was trying to get out) and then him trying to get out over the door. This morning he has gone in the field and is just shouting over and over for the other horse. Despite the fact he has several horses around him in the field. They are all in strip grazing. Prior to this yard he went out in a herd. He is now lame again, which is no surprise as he is meant to be resting his ligament. He wont box rest without sedation. However if i take him away to ride he is fine no problems at all. Its when they leave him. I am at my wits end and running out of ideas with him. Any advice anyone? x
 
My girl was like this but now she's just chilled out and doesn't come up over the door :) we had to stick electric ate across her door to sto t happening as a 3 year old , she will now graze alone, she willpower the hedge when buddies are removed but respects the electric fence good luck, an anti weave door and lots of practice maybe
 
Thanks for your reply. He is 16 now you think he would have learnt. He respects the fencing just runs round in circles, not good when meant to be resting :(
 
Yes, he just ignores it. He will ignore the other horses around him. If he wants to be with a particular horse nothing else seems to matter.
 
Leanne1980 said:
Yes, he just ignores it. He will ignore the other horses around him. If he wants to be with a particular horse nothing else seems to matter.
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That's like my new one he has fixed on J and that's that .
TBH I would move his stable and break the attachment pronto .
 
This is the second horse he has been attached too here. We moved the first horse and now the same again is happening. I have suggested moving him to the block of four rather than two but the yard owner is relunctant has she thinks it wont help the situation :( its hard when your own a livery yard with no free stables.
 
I had to buy a Quitkick box for my pony when he was on box rest. It was a last resort because we had tried everything and he would still try to get over the door when left in alone. Basically when they bang the door it sprays a jet of water upwards. It was expensive but it worked for mine. I did however introduce it to him carefully ie let it go off a couple of times while I held him in a halter in the stable. He immediately sussed he couldn't bang into the door and was actually more scared of the small motor sound of the machine going off than the water, daft pony. It is so hard for them to be on box rest but this really helped mine. I don't think he would of come sound otherwise so although harsh at the time it probably saved his life.
 
I had one who got severe separation anxiety - I sold him as he could not cope doing things on his own resulting in him jumping out of the stable, more scarily jumping out over the partition in the lorry, and generally just got too much of a pita.

I tried calmers, separating him from my other horse (he then just attached to another), join up etc etc.

I advertised him honestly and he went to a lady where he does everything in company, and he has proven to be her dream horse.

I feel for you as obviously with soundness issues you have no choice atm - have you spoken to your vet re sedation?

Tbh the only thing I can think off is moving him back to the original yard where he was more manageable, and compromise on the lack of facilities.

Good luck as appreciate how hard your situation is.
 
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I sympathise with you, it is difficult on a yard where you are not in control of all the horses. Tbh, and not what you want to hear, I think some horses just dont ever settle. My previous horse was as bad as yours sounds. I am very lucky in that I am on a very small yard and everyone else helped me to manage him, he was never left alone, the other 2 girls would make sure he had a friend left close by even if it meant extra work for them (he didnt form a bond with 1 in particular though so was a little easier). The only thing I can suggest is trying to integrate him into a herd and not let him bond with a special friend, and yes, I would try to move him to a bigger stable block. When mine needed box resting I made an electric fence paddock the size of a stable next to the main field and he was fine, box rest was a complete no go. Could you find a yard that is grass livery only, not ideal I know but he would always be part of a herd with something in the field at least or echo the poster above who suggests going back to your previous yard where he seemed happier. I dont know what sort of horse he is, mine was an ex racer so quite institutionalised, but needing to be part of a group is just what a horse does really, the ones who really dont mind being alone are the odd ones out. Again, like yours, Che would hack out alone, not a bother but you just couldnt leave him alone even for a minute. Good luck, I know its really difficult and you do need to tackle it to avoid the situation becoming really dangerous.
 
A different take...
Can he go out? Sounds mad but it may well be much less stressful for his mind and his body if he can go with the horse he has bonded with rather than stomping round the stable. I expect he is feeling insecure and that horse is his safety blanket atm. Getting him better is the priority surely, other issues can be sorted when he's well.
 
Not sure of the layout of your yard but you mention him 'being in a two' and maybe 'moving to a 4'

Before the whole yard moving trauma i would definitely move him to a 4 rather than a 2 - immediately dilutes the attention on that other horse. There were reasons why you moved from your other yard and they won't have changed if you go back. So i would try everything possible at your place whilst you still can
 
My horse used to be terrible, due to the fact he had never been left alone since birth! As soon as I realised I had an issue I separated him from my mare, turned him out on his own for a few weeks. He could see other horses but couldn't touch them. My poor mare was the one who had to spend her time completely alone! I didn't enjoy them after to spend time alone but it was the only thing that stopped him from pushing his way out of the stable or being a complete nightmare to ride.
Not sure if it would work with your boy though.
Sounds like he doesn't have much confidence to be completely on his own, maybe natural horsemanship could help?
 
Thanks for everyone's replies. Going back to the old yard is not an optio , they don't allow you back even if you left on good terms! Which i did. My plan is to ask to move him to the block of four horses. If that doesn't work I will find a yard where the layout is like his old yard, court yard style where they all face each other, and be in a small herd. I have had a equine behave person see him and she feels it's dominance rather than upset. He wants to be in charge of his neighbour like in a herd so gets upset when he can't. This is why he happy to leave them and them not him. She also feels that with his living previously in a herd he is used to a pecking order which can't be got on individual turnout, so looks to his neighbour and me. He does make sense because he is bolshy and pushs the boundaries daily. I will try change of stable but think I may have to move yards to go back to a herd. His legs will get damaged either way at the moment especially jumping stable doors x
 
Fingers crossed he settles if you manage to switch stables. Consider giving him some gastric and gut support.

Leanne1980 said:
I have had a equine behave person see him and she feels it's dominance rather than upset. He wants to be in charge of his neighbour like in a herd so gets upset when he can't. This is why he happy to leave them and them not him. She also feels that with his living previously in a herd he is used to a pecking order which can't be got on individual turnout, so looks to his neighbour and me. He does make sense because he is bolshy and pushs the boundaries daily.
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I'm afraid I don't buy this. He has had some huge changes recently, in a new environment and lost his familiar herd. Please don't discount stress and worry.
I do believe we underestimate the stress moving can cause even in horses that appear to take it in their stride.
 
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Old nap thanks for replying. If stress is the problem why for the first two months he was resonably calm? when he didnt have a neighbour he was fine, then the neighbour moved in and the problems started. He lets me take him and ride him anywhere but the issue is the stable. I am open to any suggestions :)
 
Leanne1980 said:
Old nap thanks for replying. If stress is the problem why for the first two months he was resonably calm? when he didnt have a neighbour he was fine, then the neighbour moved in and the problems started. He lets me take him and ride him anywhere but the issue is the stable. I am open to any suggestions :)
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Old nap, have I got a new nickname? :D

I can't see into his brain or what goes on at the yard. When he was alone he had no opportunity to get close to other horses there so as some horses do, just sucked it up and stayed quiet.
Stables are enclosed areas and he might now feel trapped when his neighbour is taken away. Horses are often turned out at the same time and if this has been his past experience then he might object and panic when left alone.
You say he is more difficult on the ground but when ridden perhaps he knows what is expected and feels comfortable with you riding?
I short I don't know but I don't believe it has anything to do with him apparently throwing a tantrum because he can't dominate the other horse.
I just think it's important because it can affect how you approach things.
 
I agree with amandap, every one of my horses from the top mare, right to the subservient, bottom of the herd gelding are happy as pie to be taken away from the herd. The ones left behind always make a fuss and they aren't even being left on their own anyway.
 
Apology on the name :/ i always thought the problem was he lacked confidence and was a big scardy cat when being alone. But now 'experts' are telling me otherwise that its dominance. I honestly dont know. But he has never been like this before, and what ever the reason i need to do something because he is going to hurt himself. I have tried calmers, sedation, changing routine, sticking to routine, nothing is helping except leaving him in with another horse which just is not an option :(
 
Leanne1980 said:
Old nap thanks for replying. If stress is the problem why for the first two months he was resonably calm? when he didnt have a neighbour he was fine, then the neighbour moved in and the problems started. He lets me take him and ride him anywhere but the issue is the stable. I am open to any suggestions :)
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He was probably just resigned to being alone, then had a friend who has become his focus and he clings to, totally normal behaviour in my experience, give him more than one, ideally several around him, he will not get so fixated on the only equine he knows, having just 2 horses in any situation is often a recipe for one to become far too attached and when left it will show the sort of reaction your horse has, it has nothing to do with whether it will go off hacking alone and I don't think it is about wanting to be dominant more stressing about whether the friend will return at all.

Moving to somewhere where he is never alone but does not get left with the same horse at all times should help, I have had horses that cannot cope with being left but are happy to come into an empty yard, some will form a bond to another but I try to ensure they get used to having a different horse as company, mine are in a barn so can see a horse whatever box they are in not just the direct neighbour, I feel you need to have give and take with horses like this, they rarely learn to cope by going cold turkey but by taking small steps it can improve.
 
I'd go with your gut.
I can see how upsetting and difficult this is for you and the pressure you are under. What does the vet say about letting him go out and in with another horse to keep him calmer? Be honest with the vet about the situation and perhaps there is another way to limit damage. Your old livery is a bit sad with that attitude tbh and this one should be trying to help you more by the sound of it. Liveries are a community and reading about problems such as this, I wish people would work together more to help these issues. x
 
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amandap said:
I'd go with your gut.
I can see how upsetting and difficult this is for you and the pressure you are under. What does the vet say about letting him go out and in with another horse to keep him calmer? Be honest with the vet about the situation and perhaps there is another way to limit damage. Your old livery is a bit sad with that attitude tbh and this one should be trying to help you more by the sound of it. Liveries are a community and reading problems such as this, I wish people would work together more to help these issues. x
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When I had one on box rest that was unsettled alone the other horses all took it in turns to spend a day in to keep him company, some are mine the others full liveries there was no problem at all, everyone should be prepared to pull together rather than label the "difficult" horse as too much trouble, managing the horses so all are happy is part of being a YO a bit of give and take does no one any harm and may come back when you need it for the next horse that requires some help.
 
I think it sounds as though your "expert" is more of a natural horsemanship person than a behaviourist. A behaviourist would be very unlikely indeed to attribute separation anxiety to a wish to dominate another horse.
Some useful (and evidence based) descriptions of herd behaviour and why horses may become anxious when separated here (written by folk with actual behavioural qualifications ;) ).
http://www.ebta.co.uk/faq-herd.html
 
Leanne1980 said:
Apology on the name :/ i always thought the problem was he lacked confidence and was a big scardy cat when being alone. But now 'experts' are telling me otherwise that its dominance. I honestly dont know.
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Just FYI i had this with my mare, i had some very well known behaviourists out who charged me a ruddy fortune (think people in magazines all the time!) and i was told several times that my mare was more dominant than a typical stallion. She suffered from separation anxiety and was just a nightmare on the ground and ridden.

This had all started after a yard move, and not even straight away! wasn't as long as you but was about 2 weeks after the move she suddenly lost the plot, no one could lead her, she would rear, lash out, bolt, scream at the top of her voice etc etc, ended up with me on a spinal board amongst other things.

She eventually settled over time (after weeks of me nearly selling her) and I have since moved to another yard where she settled within a week. Since then i have found some new instructors etc and all of a sudden they are agreeing with what i thought all along.. she isn't bolshy/dangerous/opinionated as a stallion etc etc.. she is actually terribly worried about everything terribly unsettled and seeking reassurance.

I always thought that, but the 'experts' have to have something to 'fix' and these sort of symptoms can only be fixed with time not in a 2 hour session.

I think move to the four boxes and take it steady, he will be fine, it just takes time. Don't give up on him and make sure you are confident with all your handling so he can take reassurance from you as the leader. Good luck!!
 
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