Serious napping - advice?

[Kirstineridesagain]

My lovely pony is a napper. Not too bad in company, though he will protest at steep hills. Sometimes I have to get off and lead him for a bit, as he walks backwards, kicks with his legs or just won't move. I struggle to find company for most of our hacks, and since he's a "happy" hacker I need to be able to ride alone. Once he's going he's fine, doesn't spook, doesn't run off, is very pleasant and sensible. But he'd rather be at home, so how do I change this?

 

[SpotsandBays]

Is it just hills he’s protesting about? Maybe something about hill work is uncomfortable?

 

[Kirstineridesagain]

He's been checked for everything, he's sound and there's nothing wrong. Apparently he's always been like this. I took him on a three hour hack last week, much longer than our usual one hour, and he was fine. He probably does find steep hills a bit hard, but he does sometimes nap on the flat too.

 

[Melody Grey]

That doesn’t sound like napping to me, more of a message of discomfort/ pain. I’d be thinking of checking saddle fit and then getting the vet.

 

[fidleyspromise]

He's been checked for everything, he's sound and there's nothing wrong. Apparently he's always been like this. I took him on a three hour hack last week, much longer than our usual one hour, and he was fine. He probably does find steep hills a bit hard, but he does sometimes nap on the flat too.

When you say checked for everything what has been checked?

How old is he? Is it old owners that say he's always been like this?
How steep are the hills? Is it only going up or going down as well?

What happens if you do nothing when he naps and just sit it out?

 

[mustardsmum]

Bizarrely I have one similar, who stops at steep hills and won’t school. He is being in the vets to be scoped for ulcers as I type. He too is lovely and biddable so I felt the stopping was out of character. Vet agreed - so he went for a work up yesterday. I left him at the vets as after ruling out feet/any lameness, ulcers are the next most likely reason. I think your pony is trying to tell you he’s uncomfortable somewhere. I would def investigate this.

Just to add, mine did the stopping and refusing and I have had to get off, walk in hand so I totally understand where you are! There is usually a reason for this sort of behaviour.

 

[Polos Mum]

Loads and loads and loads of in hand work on routes you want to ride - lead him like a dog for miles and miles.

IF you are 100% sure it's not pain related. As several others above, I'd be surprised if a negative response to hill work was purely behavioral.
Could be something as simple as the saddle slipping back a bit uphill or something else.

No harm in walking him up the hills if he finds them hard (mentally or physically) and then popping back on at the top. Eventually (if it's mental) he'll realise that making a fuss makes no difference to the ride so he'll give up doing it.

 

[ycbm]

Nobody can ever justifiably be 100% sure behaviour is not pain related.

Stopping at the bottom of hills screams pain to me, with some possible causes that a vet might not have found:

places which have not yet been scanned or x rayed (back, hocks, suspensories?)

muscles asked to work too hard (fitness, PSSM?)

a saddle that doesn't fit when the rider leans forwards to go up the hill (often not something tested by saddle fitters)

a rider that uses the reins as support to go up hill,

pain in the toe from having too long a toe levering at the floor, or early laminitis.



I hope you manage to find the answer.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Is this the same horse you posted about being unfit last winter (18 year old Icelandic) ?

 

[lynz88]

if it's hill work that is protested, then I'd immediately think a pain issue.

 

[lynz88]

He's been checked for everything, he's sound and there's nothing wrong. Apparently he's always been like this. I took him on a three hour hack last week, much longer than our usual one hour, and he was fine. He probably does find steep hills a bit hard, but he does sometimes nap on the flat too.

have you checked hocks / suspensories / SI? How does he feel over his back in general - tight anywhere? Weak anywhere? How does the saddle fit? Those would be my starting places

 

[Glitter's fun]

have you checked hocks / suspensories / SI? How does he feel over his back in general - tight anywhere? Weak anywhere? How does the saddle fit? Those would be my starting places

If it's the same horse I remember talking with OP about before , it's a share or loan horse & OP isn't directly involved in veterinary decisions.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

have you checked hocks / suspensories / SI? How does he feel over his back in general - tight anywhere? Weak anywhere? How does the saddle fit? Those would be my starting places

This

 

[Wizpop]

Nobody can ever justifiably be 100% sure behaviour is not pain related.

Stopping at the bottom of hills screams pain to me, with some possible causes that a vet might not have found:

places which have not yet been scanned or x rayed (back, hocks, suspensories?)

muscles asked to work too hard (fitness, PSSM?)

a saddle that doesn't fit when the rider leans forwards to go up the hill (often not something tested by saddle fitters)

a rider that uses the reins as support to go up hill,

pain in the toe from having too long a toe levering at the floor, or early laminitis.



I hope you manage to find the answer.

This 100%

 

[Abacus]

Apart from investigating possible medical issues as others have said, try working out the exact pattern of napping. Anything I am about to say assumes that you really have ruled out any cause of pain apart from lack of strength.

1. Is it always on hills, and is it all hills or just the same one (the latter might point to him finding this specific hill spookier, or harder if it is steeper)
2. Does he regularly nap elsewhere (if yes then he's probably just nappy if he doesn't feel like doing something)
3. Is it always going away from home, or will he still nap towards home (if it's coming home too, then maybe there is something wrong, not many horses nap coming towards home)
4. How unfit is he? Even when not very fit I think most of my horses could manage a hill at walk. If he can manage a 3 hour hack I would think he is fit enough for a hill.

Can you get through it staying on him or do you HAVE to get off and lead? Maybe he has learned that if he stops you make it easier for him.

As I said, I have ignored medical issues in most of this.

 

[mustardsmum]

So @Kirstineridesagain here is a little update after my pony was scoped today, he has been stopping at hills, stops when when schooling, stops walking down hills and stops in canter transitions. Not every single time, but enough that I felt something wasn't right.

He has ulcers, both kinds. He is sore and uncomfortable. Today I bought £1k's worth of medication to get him right, I can't really afford that and wont be having a holiday this year, but its my responsibility to make sure I do everything I can for him. The important thing here is, I cannot just ride him with ulcers - he is telling me the only way he knows how to, by stopping. It was his way of saying, look I am bloody uncomfortable when you ride me! I actually thought it was feet, but nerve blocks for that proved it wasn't. He still stopped. I am not saying your pony has ulcers, I cannot possibly say - the only person who can is the vet who scopes him. All I am saying is your pony is trying to tell you something and maybe you need to look at him again? Things change.

 

[SpeedyPony]

How is he, muscle-wise? If it is genuinely not a pain issue (which does sound likely, even if it's as simple as saddle fit as mentioned above), then it sounds like he hasn't got the fitness/strength to carry a rider up the hill, which would make me want to take a step back and look at his condition and musculature, as if he's showing any atrophy he might need more targeted strengthening work (possibly from the ground) to build him up properly. If he's enormously fat that will also make the hills much harder on him (and can to some extent hide a lack of muscle).
Does he still protest at being led up hills, or will he go happily sans rider?

 

[SantaVera]

Loads and loads and loads of in hand work on routes you want to ride - lead him like a dog for miles and miles.

IF you are 100% sure it's not pain related. As several others above, I'd be surprised if a negative response to hill work was purely behavioral.
Could be something as simple as the saddle slipping back a bit uphill or something else.

No harm in walking him up the hills if he finds them hard (mentally or physically) and then popping back on at the top. Eventually (if it's mental) he'll realise that making a fuss makes no difference to the ride so he'll give up doing it.

This

 

[Kirstineridesagain]

Sorry guys, I didn't see your replies. This is a while ago, but little update. He still has these issues, but I know why now (of course he could have ulcers, although I doubt it, he's had them before but that's a long time ago and he's not displaying the symptoms he did then).

He's sadly got a bad conformation, being bum high and cow hocked, something about his front legs too. So he can't move properly. He sort of bum shuffles. He's just had physio and I'm hoping he will show some improvement. He may also go on a bute trial. He's got a very stiff back, and I will do some exercises (bending him) and follow up physio if I notice an improvement. If he doesn't improve, I think just very short hacks or in-hand walks will be on the cards. I've noticed things weren't quite right with him for a while and been told he's stubborn, always been like that (which may be true), and just "lazy." When I ride him I notice him trying, though, so I didn't quite believe them. Hopefully he will improve, if not then I think a slower life is on the cards for him. I haven't really pushed him too much, he's been in light work, but never noticed a change in fitness.

 

[I'm Dun]

The pony needs a vet workup and the physio is being very remiss if they treat him and don't recommend vet investigation.

 

[mustardsmum]

I agree with @I’m Dun - I would def look at xraying hocks if his conformation is not great as he may have some issues the physio can’t see. What’s he like picking up his feet - does he resist or feel heavy? Update on my pony who also will stop and shut down and was also funny on hills. We treated ulcers and saw slight improvement but still not right, back to vet for X-rays and he’s got thin soles and arthritis in hocks. So we have a plan - sadly that includes shoeing (been barefoot) but needs must (please don’t jump on me re this folks - believe me this pony has had a very test and has optimal diet - for some reason his feet aren’t great despite the very best efforts and sometimes you just have to accept that). I think you really can help your pony with the physio exercises but it could be his conformation means joints are compromised and there may be other ways you can make him comfortable. But that will prob also mean his workload will still need adjusting to suit him. Really your Physio should be second to vet, so I think you’d be wise to get a good vet work up before riding him again.

 

[lynz88]

Cow hocked + sore back alone would make me think hock arthritis and/or feet. Agree with others you should be getting vet out.