Seriously difficult horse with feet

[poiuytrewq]

Any ideas?!

This is a horse I’m currently looking after PT for the owners. It’s a temporary job so I don’t know a huge amount about her.
She is a very big horse.
I believe it’s hormonal mareish behaviour and she is on Regumate. I’m told this has made her much sweeter (!!)
It’s front and back. I’m mainly the only person atm handling her feet. I can usually get them picked out but occasionally only get 3 done. She’s probably best for me currently but my god it’s hard work!
She refuses to lift them firstly so after that battle they suddenly whip up and lash out. If you i keep hold at this point then usually i then get them done quickly. Some days however we have much squealing and kicking violently. She means it.
She’s had her owner who’s a retired man just this week.
The farrier can no longer shoe her behind and has big problems in front. This has been the case since I started there. I’m told she used to be “ok” to shoe.
They now have a vet to sedate and she gets top ups through out the process but it’s still pretty awful (and she needs to at least be trimmed behind)
She still lashes out very quickly and with a lot of force.
Boots have been mentioned but I’m really not confident I’d be able to fit them without having my head kicked off!
So we need to try and get on top of this. A stuffed glove on a stick has been suggested but I can touch her legs fairly reliably and can’t pick up her feet that way.
I had thought I was getting somewhere but then as above she got her owner yesterday.
The vet suggested clicker training, I’m really not convinced that’s going to work!
Any ideas gratefully received!

 

[Goldenstar]

Have you tried a bute trial ?
Thats what I would do.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Have you tried a bute trial ?
Thats what I would do.

I have suggested that but have been told it’s been tried and made no difference.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I suggested to the vet it was pain related but her thoughts were as it’s all round that she’s just being naughty.
My thoughts are that she’s not generally a naughty horse, she has manners. If I walk in and say over for example she moves.

 

[Lamehorses]

The owner needs a new vet. This sounds totally like a horse saying it's uncomfortable

 

[View]

Tricky situation

I, too, wonder about this being pain related.

 

[ycbm]

I suggested to the vet it was pain related but her thoughts were as it’s all round that she’s just being naughty.

I don't see that logic ?

 

[Goldenstar]

She sounds like she screaming at people and no one listens .

 

[poiuytrewq]

She sounds like she screaming at people and no one listens .

I’m trying too! It’s hard when it’s not my horse.

@ycbm i know, a bit of me wondered if the vet was too nervous of looking into it because she’d have had to handle the feet herself?

 

[Goldenstar]

All you can do is be kind .

 

[ihatework]

A stuffed glove is good for sensitising the young/nervous/ferel ones but doesn’t sound appropriate for this one.

You can use a long soft rope around the fetlock to train them to lift and balance whilst staying out of the firing zone, but again this is really for horses that don’t know how to.

If this horse is older and previously good with feet, then something has changed. She has either had a seriously bad experience and got ultra defensive (in which case clicker training might be worth considering), or she is in significant discomfort and is just telling everyone to f off.

Really have a think about all her subtle behaviour in the rest of her life and that should point you in the right direction.

 

[poiuytrewq]

All you can do is be kind .

Well I’m currently giving loads of praise when I do manage to pick a foot out, then days that she’s really adamant I just leave it. (I can’t afford to be injured and have my own to do, especially with winter on its way) As I say I usually manage but we are supposed to be trying to make life easier for her poor poor farrier!

 

[poiuytrewq]

@ihatework Yes that’s what I figured. I can shampoo her fetlocks so the gloved stick is a definite overkill.
I’ve questioned and questioned it all and gather she certainly used to be shod behind and didn’t need sedating to do so. She may not have been great to do but wasn’t the huge ordeal it is now.
She is very grouchy. Will bite being groomed and tacked up etc but the Regumate I’m told has made a massive massive difference to this so that may well be hormonal still.
I’m not a mare person. I’ve never owned one but *think she’s in season this week (but then I also thought Regumate stopped that?) as she’s been squirting a bit.
She’s always good to ride. Once she’s tacked up she seems to visibly relax and get on with it.

 

[ihatework]

If she were mine I’d probably ovary scan and gastroscope.

Completely sure nothing orthopaedic going on?

Any sign of thrush?

Sounds just up my street to have a play around with ?

 

[Adoni123]

Definitely sounds pain related. A well mannered horse in every other way wouldn’t tend to act like this, especially if working on it for a long time. Can you get chiro or physio out? Is the horse completely sound?

 

[J&S]

I would be pretty certain its pain, hocks and knees. Have experienced this with two other older horses I have owned/known. If you/farrier/owner can get the hinds up then really only lift minimal amount to be able to do the job. Fronts are more difficult as they tend to pull away and paw out but if you can hold, hold very low. It's rotten for bad backs (humans)! Both horses I have known have been otherwise really well mannered, just like you describe.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I had a Clydesdale mare who needed to be sedated to trim her feet, farrier worked with her and she did improve a bit - at least we could use Sedalin, rather than vet administered IV sedation. Aged 11 ( I had for about 5 yrs) she had to be pts because an internal tumour ruptured, probably within her digestive tract, after she suffered a rectal prolapse. I have always assumed that she was in pain from the tumour when she lifted her feet/was unbalanced, or that it just tipped her over the edge.

 

[Northern Hare]

...... She’s always good to ride. Once she’s tacked up she seems to visibly relax and get on with it.

Just a thought, but could you try picking her feet out once she's tacked up, if she is a bit more relaxed with her tack on? Also is she better once she's been worked? If she's finding it painful to lift her feet due to stiffness, it might be that she'll find it more comfortable once she's been worked and is warmed up a bit. Is she an elderly horse? (sorry if I've missed this info upthread!). ?

 

[conniegirl]

Not read the reply but will say the first sign of lennys problems was him becoming difficult with his feet. Started with his hinds and then became difficult with his fronts.

That started months before he went lame.

Arthritis of the spine was the eventual diagnosis

 

[Trouper]

Mine, too, started being difficult to shoe before we found all the other problems so definitely sounds pain-related to me.

 

[splashgirl45]

my mare who i had owned since she was 15 months suddenly one day when my farrier lifted her near hind bolted out of the door with me hanging on. she was 23 and had always been perfect, we thought it was the rain coming down suddenly on the corrugated iron roof, so he finished her outside and she was ok. 6 months later she did something in the field and came in lame on that leg. stifle was very swollen and extremely painful and meds didnt help so she was PTS as she already had an arthritic knee and box rest wouldnt be good for that. i think she had a twinge when my farrier lifted her leg andwhen she had a hooley in the field she made it worse..

 

[Pippity]

Clicker training was an absolute godsend with my mare. I went from not being able to get within a foot of her legs to her picking her feet up when I tap her elbow.

She does still need sedation for the farrier but we're down to half a tube of domosedan, rather than the full vet injection and top-up, and that's for being shod all-round.

Even when I couldn't touch her legs, the rest of her manners were excellent, so I wouldn't necessarily rule it out. With mine, I'm pretty sure she'd never actually been taught to have her legs handled - it had all just been done by force.

 

[Stressymummy]

It sounds pain related to me , or memories of a bad experience with a previous farrier

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I had a horse similarly dangerous. He came across as aggressive but I'm sure he was frightened. The gloved stick definitely helped, as did picking out feet after work rather than before. The farrier avoided him at all costs, riding barefoot his feet chipped off and kept fairly tidy. After about two years he is now pretty good with me, still barefoot and very nervous of strangers. Nothing physical was ever found. Good luck - stay safe.