Seriously scopey horse & self doubt?

PaddyMonty

PaddyMonty

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From an SJ point of view Juno is extremely scopey. Not just my opinion (I'm biased). Since taking her on in november I haven't jumped any other horse.
Each time we jump I never feel completely with her over a fence. Nothing major, just a tad behind the movement or a tad in front but enough to create a feeling of being a little disconnected.
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Over the last few weeks I'd started to question my ability over a fence. Now I've never been deluded enough to believe I was gods gift to SJ but lately I've started to think I perhaps should be sticking to 1 foot CR.
Junos owner is away atm so I'm looking after (and riding) her other 3 horses. On tuesday I worked juno and popped a small course of fences (1.05cm max). It felt normal juno type jumping, not bad just not quite with it.
Immediately after I rode owners 5yo ID. He's a reasonably talented lad but not in the same league as Juno.
I did exactely the same course on him and bingo. No problem at all. We hit every fence just right. No problem staying in balance with him. Really just very easy despite his canter being less balanced and engaged.
Yesterday I jumped another horse and same thing, no problem.
So I'm guessing its just Juno and her current explosive over a fence style of jumping that is causing the problem.

Feeling a lot happier now
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but just wondered if anyone else has experienced a similar thing?
 
Hey - is it that you are trying to hard and as you are consious that something is not quite right making too much of an effort to make it right rather than just relaxing into her scope?

I know probably not (as I've seen you ride and you are better than an error like that!).

If its any help I feel all out of sorts with my new mare, the more I jump the worse I feel but I know its because we've just not gelled yet.
 
You haven't been riding her very long and it can be hard to gel with a new horse, agree with clockwork I'm definitely like that when I think about it. Have you had someone else video you or watch you, it normally looks so much better when you play it back.
 
I had that feeling with a cautious youngster last year. Now has improved amazingly and I really think its just a case of adjusting to a different style so I wouldnt worry.
And echo jumpto it about the videoing, sometimes Ive ridden rounds and thought OMG that felt awful and scrappy and just rubbish, but wathcing it back looks nowhere near as bad as it felt!!
 
Perhaps it's a) how you view Juno, as you know she's scopey and special, therefore you're more aware of how you feel on her, and b) that she is actually sharper, more quality and more scopey than anything else you've ridden lately, so your riding needs to adapt to that.

From what I remember of the chestnut (who's name escapes me, sorry
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) and then seeing Juno they are very different, and the chestnut seemed to have a lovely rhythm, smaller stride, more economical jump - correct me if I'm wrong here - whereas she's all big and soft and expansive (if that's the right word to use, I know what I mean anyway
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), so you need to be ultra soft to stay with all that stuff going on! Kenneth had us doing grids one-handed, the other hand on your head or leg, and oh my goodness that is incredible for your position.
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It really makes you stay with the horse, almost as if having both hands on the reins kind of "fixes" you in a position, whereas one-handed you can't.
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Sorry for rambling, but it might be worth a try.
 
At least it's only a minor 'just out' feeling! My jumping mare is so small (13.2hh) that if you get a little in front of the movement you hit the dirt! I think it's partially that they aren't really balanced yet, and partially that they don't have enough experience to give a smooth ride as they're still trying things out for themselves (and that they still find the whole thing far too exciting!!). We used to jump everything twice the size it was, and because I never knew exactly how high she was going to jump, it was impossible to sit the movement perfectly. With lots of regular jumping over small fences (and I mean REALLY small), she began to find it less over-exciting, and we now jump everything up to about 3ft the height it actually is. Over that - well, if you're going to get so excited that you grunt and charge at it, what's the point in jumping it the size it is, why not make it at least a foot bigger??!!!
 
Looking at your pics of Juno, perhaps when you were jumping the 1.05m course on her, you were actually jumping about 1.40
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and as the other two horses were a little more average and economical with their jump this is why it felt so much easier to stay with them. Just an idea!
 
I think you need to get used to that FEEL over a fence i used to be the same with my mare but now feel I cant ride anything without that extra ping as feel left behind or push for a funny stride !
 
[ QUOTE ]
Have you had someone else video you or watch you, it normally looks so much better when you play it back.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have several vids of us jumping. None of which i would want to watch a second time
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It looks as rough as it feels
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[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps it's a) how you view Juno, as you know she's scopey and special, therefore you're more aware of how you feel on her,

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Might be an element of that but only a small one. She is very special to me.


[ QUOTE ]
and b) that she is actually sharper, more quality and more scopey than anything else you've ridden lately, so your riding needs to adapt to that.


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Definitely all of the above.
Thinking about it (should be working but what the hell), with just about every other horse I've ridden its possible to predict to a reasonable degree what will happen at take-off-point based on how the approach feels. Sure you get the odd catch out but mostly it is within expected boundries.
With Juno there doesn't seem to be any correlation between approach and jump. She is so agile, light and such a huge jump that what you get at take-off can be anything. Take-off point also varies despite consistent approach.
Dont get me wrong, she is considerably better than she was back in november. She no longer rushes or backs off on approach and we dont have the constant rodeo after every fence that we used to. Wish she just didn't make me feel a complete numpty every time I leave the ring
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Once I've check my life insurance I will give the one handed jumping a go. Hopefully i will report back
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[ QUOTE ]
Looking at your pics of Juno, perhaps when you were jumping the 1.05m course on her, you were actually jumping about 1.40
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[/ QUOTE ]

That would be about right
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Perhaps I just need to wait until the height of fences we're jumping matches her ability. Where that height is a dread to think
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[ QUOTE ]

From what I remember of the chestnut (who's name escapes me, sorry
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) and then seeing Juno they are very different, and the chestnut seemed to have a lovely rhythm, smaller stride, more economical jump - correct me if I'm wrong here - whereas she's all big and soft and expansive (if that's the right word to use, I know what I mean anyway
tongue.gif
), so you need to be ultra soft to stay with all that stuff going on!

[/ QUOTE ]

You're absolutely right and your description of Juno is spot on.
With the chestnut, whose jumping was dire when I firts started with him all I had to do was work on his flatwork, balance his canter and give him some jump experience. Simples (think meerkat advert)
One before him was the same and the one before that and so on. Couple of months and bobs yer uncle.
Juno is on a different planet!
 
I can completely relate to this as my horse is totally inconsistent in his approach - sometimes he rushes, sometimes he is spooky and sometimes he lazy. Every time I approach a fence I do not really know what he is going to do so my riding really struggles. I jumped him 4 times in a row and he was not the same any day. I feel like an idiot riding him and no one really has any solutions for me and just keep saying you are doing the best you can. This does not help me as I feel I get it wrong far more than I get it right.
 
I think people wonder what the hell I am doing on this horse. It also does nothing for your self belief but I keep going as I have learnt more from this horse than any other and know that the next horse will benefit from what I have learnt.
 
I can relate to this feeling, I've had my boy over 2 years and I still can't stay with him over a fence, he's got a style like nothign i've ever ridden before and is somewhat unpredictable in his approach, take off (whether he will chip in a extra half stride, take a stride out totally, or fail to leave the ground at all!) and then his jump is just a bizarre feeling! I have no end of humiliating photos! Can't really offer any advice, just that you're far from alone!
 
Dear Sir/Madam
Please accept my application for the 'My Horse Makes Me Feel Like a Numpty' clique. I enclose a cheque for the required joining fee and would like to confirm that, more often than not, my horse does indeed make me feel like the most useless, cack-handed, unbalanced jockey on the face of the planet and when we're jumping I 'miss' more often than a premiership centreforward.
Yours Faithfully
Gamebird
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It's like you're describing Tilly (Juno) & Abbey (IDx)!

I think that it's to do with Juno's ability & sensitivity. Yes she's very scopey but possibly not terribly confident in herself? I watched that video of you riding Juno when you first started out at Moulton & I got the impression that she's easily distracted &/or upset.

Being the agile type, she's able to spook / buck / whatever into a fence & get away with it, but as a result you're not getting the consistency that a less able horse would have to produce in order to just get over the fence. Hence the ID gives you a good feel because he lacks the scope & has to get it right everytime.

You definitely shouldn't doubt yourself as you've brought her a long way in a short time. I think it's just down to her experience & confidence which will all come with time
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Perhaps a few sessions with placing poles will make you feel more confident about take off location and in turn will prove to you that, actually, you are doing a good job and not to analyse so much?
 
Honestly,you lot...
Juno,you are doing a grand job,did you really think that all the really good horses were like riding school dobbins when they were young??
Er...No???
What about Calvaro from Willi Melliger or Milton? Ratina or Shutterfly?
In my not exactly expert,but fairly long-lived opinion,the more talented your horse is,the less you should stress about getting results immediately.
You could try shorter periods of training alternating with a few weeks of field and hacking. Really clever talented horses are like super-gifted children,and get bored and uncooperative with a constant education.
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Or....I could also be talking out of my bo**om.
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(Sorry,boozy lunch
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)
 
OMG StaceyTanglewood, your horse can fly
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- well sat, and well done for leaving his back teeth intact.
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sj_mummy, boozy lunch or no boozy lunch, you speak sense, but I think it's may be easier when you have more experience to minimise the self-doubt you feel in this kind of situation. It seems that Juno is doubting himself so much that it's not only eroding his confidence, but perhaps getting to the point that his riding might suffer as a result.
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Juno, it's good that you've got others to ride, as that will keep your confidence in your own ability high. Try and get your trainer to help by not doing this face when you're jumping
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(
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) and maybe have some lessons on other horses too (if time and finances allow) so that Juno doesn't become all-consuming. Oh, and chill
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(says she, the biggest stressbag of them all).
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[ QUOTE ]
OMG StaceyTanglewood, your horse can fly
smile.gif
- well sat, and well done for leaving his back teeth intact.
wink.gif


sj_mummy, boozy lunch or no boozy lunch, you speak sense, but I think it's may be easier when you have more experience to minimise the self-doubt you feel in this kind of situation. It seems that Juno is doubting himself so much that it's not only eroding his confidence, but perhaps getting to the point that his riding might suffer as a result.
frown.gif


Juno, it's good that you've got others to ride, as that will keep your confidence in your own ability high. Try and get your trainer to help by not doing this face when you're jumping
shocked.gif
(
tongue.gif
) and maybe have some lessons on other horses too (if time and finances allow) so that Juno doesn't become all-consuming. Oh, and chill
cool.gif
(says she, the biggest stressbag of them all).
blush.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

ha ha thanks !!!!! my arms are only little but i tried to give as much as poss !!
 
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