Session 17 warts & all.....

I'm only 20 mins in (iPad froze) but the beginning/warm up work, even though he is (obviously will be!) still BTV, he looks a lot more relaxed and less concertined/compressed?
He's so interesting to watch, I get the impression you could hack him on a long rein and he would be very very chilled, and the more you ask him to work and try to stop him evading, the hotter he gets?
 
Have watched it all now. 21.50, 33.40 and 33.52 just so pleasing, he seems to benefit really well from that light seat in canter. And 30.00 in the canter (I think, I've confused myself!). He is definitely less tense - sure there are moments of tension but there are a lot more points when he isn't? And I see definite bits where he is taking the rein forward. I like when he gets tense/hot in the collection and she sends him forward it is helping as he's actually reaching and taking the length of rein forward for himself
 
Armas said:
Oh I see you have read the previous thread NOT.
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Not the sort of response I'd expect from an adult! Not everyone trawls through all these videos and the mountains of subsequent posts so I thought that was a bit harsh.

I've not watched the videos but I've skimmed through a lot of the aftermath and I'm surprised by your attitude at times - the post above in particular hilights why.
 
sonjafoers said:
Not the sort of response I'd expect from an adult! Not everyone trawls through all these videos and the mountains of subsequent posts so I thought that was a bit harsh.

I've not watched the videos but I've skimmed through a lot of the aftermath and I'm surprised by your attitude at times - the post above in particular hilights why.
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Tbf, Sonjafoers, if you had read the previous thread you would be aware that vieshot read and commented on it too. I'm not convinced "he's wearing more tack" is a particularly mature post either!
 
Armas said:
Oh I see you have read the previous thread NOT.
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Sorry.....I wasn't aware that I had to have watched all 16 previous videos and the hundreds of comments before I was allowed to make my own. Christ. No I didn't really read the previous thread, however I am still shocked at your choice in gadget and would feel this way having read it or not.
 
JFTD said:
Tbf, Sonjafoers, if you had read the previous thread you would be aware that vieshot read and commented on it too. I'm not convinced "he's wearing more tack" is a particularly mature post either!
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Actually I didn't read it much at all. I watched it and posted saying I didn't believe he looked relaxed as the original post claimed. I then skimmed to see if anyone had replied to me. I can't read all the posts as much as I would sometimes like to, not enough hours in the day!
 
I see that you commented on this thread and clearly did not watch the video in full. As if you had you would understand the choice in tack and you would understand why the tack was removed a short way in to the session.
Did you bother to listen to the riders comments at the end and her explanation ? I guess that the answer is no.
 
I adore Armas - he's stunning. I adore the videos you put up of him in the field, strutting his stuff, using himself superbly and all without any pressure. In the ridden videos, he looks almost resigned, half the horse he is when he's loose.

If he was mine, and bearing in mind I haven't fully read the previous 16 session's worth of threads, I'd take all the pressure off, hack him out, perhaps give him a jump, let him learn to relax and enjoy being ridden again. Some horse's can't handle being schooled excessively - I own a couple, and the more you work in the school, the more you drill things the worse they get as they get as they get worried. Yet if I school once a week there's a much more noticeable improvement.
 
Armas said:
I see that you commented on this thread and clearly did not watch the video in full. As if you had you would understand the choice in tack and you would understand why the tack was removed a short way in to the session.
Did you bother to listen to the riders comments at the end and her explanation ? I guess that the answer is no.
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Nope, I don't get enough time to ride my own horse so definitely don't have time to watch somebody else ride yours for forty minutes. I'm sorry that my opinion has touched such a nerve. It is just an opinion which I'm sure you can appreciate is expected when you post on a public forum.
 
GinaGeo said:
I adore Armas - he's stunning. I adore the videos you put up of him in the field, strutting his stuff, using himself superbly and all without any pressure. In the ridden videos, he looks almost resigned, half the horse he is when he's loose.

If he was mine, and bearing in mind I haven't fully read the previous 16 session's worth of threads, I'd take all the pressure off, hack him out, perhaps give him a jump, let him learn to relax and enjoy being ridden again. Some horse's can't handle being schooled excessively - I own a couple, and the more you work in the school, the more you drill things the worse they get as they get as they get worried. Yet if I school once a week there's a much more noticeable improvement.
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Love this. Totally agree. He needs to go gallopy gallopy :-)
 
Indeed your opinion is important. However to be able to give an informed educated opinion you need to watch the video. Other wise your opinion is worthless. Is there even a point in posting if you don't watch ??
 
GinaGeo said:
I adore Armas - he's stunning. I adore the videos you put up of him in the field, strutting his stuff, using himself superbly and all without any pressure. In the ridden videos, he looks almost resigned, half the horse he is when he's loose.

If he was mine, and bearing in mind I haven't fully read the previous 16 session's worth of threads, I'd take all the pressure off, hack him out, perhaps give him a jump, let him learn to relax and enjoy being ridden again. Some horse's can't handle being schooled excessively - I own a couple, and the more you work in the school, the more you drill things the worse they get as they get as they get worried. Yet if I school once a week there's a much more noticeable improvement.
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Agree with every word of this ^

I'm not very knowledgeable on the technical side of things but this strikes out to me a lot. He's very much in his element when he's galloping round his field and jumping over things. Why not do more of that with him?

I think i've missed something somewhere but whats your main goal with these sessions?
 
vieshot said:
Actually I didn't read it much at all. I watched it and posted saying I didn't believe he looked relaxed as the original post claimed. I then skimmed to see if anyone had replied to me. I can't read all the posts as much as I would sometimes like to, not enough hours in the day!
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I can sympathise with that - I haven't watched or read all Armas' training reports. But having watched the previous video and skimmed the thread, the additions to the tack should have been unsurprising... Now if you'd said "I don't approve of the running reins", or "I don't think they're achieving what she wants", I'd think you were just expressing your opinion - the way you put it sounded more of a snide dig at the OP, and these threads get enough of those! I know the OP doesn't seem to care, though, so...
 
GinaGeo said:
I adore Armas - he's stunning. I adore the videos you put up of him in the field, strutting his stuff, using himself superbly and all without any pressure. In the ridden videos, he looks almost resigned, half the horse he is when he's loose.

If he was mine, and bearing in mind I haven't fully read the previous 16 session's worth of threads, I'd take all the pressure off, hack him out, perhaps give him a jump, let him learn to relax and enjoy being ridden again. Some horse's can't handle being schooled excessively - I own a couple, and the more you work in the school, the more you drill things the worse they get as they get as they get worried. Yet if I school once a week there's a much more noticeable improvement.
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There is something in this comment. He does not float my boat in terms of conformation or type, but I do wonder if he would be better off out of the school, chuck the contact away and take him hacking in woodland, up and down hills and on tracks where he is forced to pick his way and look after himself without help from the rider.

Would six months of this type of work achieve a forward going, long and low outline with the build up of muscle behind the saddle, improve balance and make the horse think for himself ? I really cannot see that endless circles in the school is going to persuade this horse to uncurl himself. stretch down and forward and let go through his back.

I know nothing about the breed so perhaps the above is not possible, but it certainly works for all my young horses.
 
I thought he looked better today, particularly with regards to his relaxation at the start of the session and the initial canter work. Also when the rider started the passagey steps she did a good transition with him up to a medium trot and he carried himself and moved really nicely. However, after that when she did the passagey steps she did what I have seen her do a lot before, which was just drop him and let him run off. I'm not entirely sure why she does that....?

But that aside I thought it was a relatively positive session until the lateral work in walk at the end... I have never commented on his awkwardness behind before, but James, Armas really does appear to have pain (rather than weakness) in that hind leg. He limps sideways as he has to bear down on that leg...
 
I'm sorry but I it's unfair that your asking that people replying should watch the video in full before commenting. everyone here has there own things to do in their life's. I don't like many others have 20 to 45 minutes depending on the video to watch it in full. that's a lot to ask everyday.

all the people who are saying he looks lame can't all be wrong? surely it's not just one person commenting on that it's many.
 
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Ok so if we take this as a whole process we can't deny that there have been improvements, but I am still not sure I agree with her approach here. As I've said before and AA suggested earlier, take away the reins and allow him to find his balance and build himself up.

This vid was ouchy to me in the walk at the beginning because that sticky leg sticks out a mile today. Do we know he isn't in pain on it Armas?
 
Probably against my better judgement, I am going to dip a toe and post :o
AdorableAlice said:
There is something in this comment. He does not float my boat in terms of conformation or type, but I do wonder if he would be better off out of the school, chuck the contact away and take him hacking in woodland, up and down hills and on tracks where he is forced to pick his way and look after himself without help from the rider.

Would six months of this type of work achieve a forward going, long and low outline with the build up of muscle behind the saddle, improve balance and make the horse think for himself ?
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Funny you should say that :) Back in dim and distant past, when I was living in my home country with harsh winters and indoor schools have been a rarity, we used to hack out our showjumpers of various levels throughout the cold months. From November to end of Feb, all I would do is ride out a string over hills, fields and tracks, in snow and cold, half sitting and half hanging onto them, it wasn't the most ''quality'' work, but without fail, every year at the start of season training camp in March, every single horse would present with swinging, powering through from behind movement that required very little effort from the jockey. Go figure.
 
He is such a lovely looking horse and I can defiantly see improvement and more relaxation.
I find it hard to be a bit negative but I do think she should really be much lighter in her seat because whenever she does he seems so much more happy. IMHO she should say of his back as much as possible.
 
Ok, so as a warning Armas, I watched probably the first two videos and have now picked this back up at session 17 so I haven't watched the in between vids or read any if the discussion. BUT....
I would wonder why the horse is being moved on to the advanced movements in the same session that started with side reins (or whatever they were) to control the shoulder? Surely you would want the basics in place before getting more complicated? Would it not be fairer to the horse to just work on a few items in a session (I.e. straightness, shoulder control and quality of the working trot) than bombard him with the volume of work he went through in that 30 minutes? The trot at about 17:40 was warp speed after the passage work -reminiscent of the first session and a real backward step IMO. I can imagine this rider isn't cheap, so you may want to see 'results' but don't move on to passage before he can consistently trot in a satisfactory contact.
Just my opinion though....
 
Just want to point out, the side reins were only on for a short time in this video.

Has Virginie ever ridden in England, James? When she was a lot younger? She looks awfully like a girl who stayed with my family at our yard in the UK many years ago. She was also from the Loire and named Virginie. Maybe not, just coincidence as it was many years ago now, but just thought I'd ask as she does look familiar.
 
GinaGeo said:
I adore Armas - he's stunning. I adore the videos you put up of him in the field, strutting his stuff, using himself superbly and all without any pressure. In the ridden videos, he looks almost resigned, half the horse he is when he's loose.

If he was mine, and bearing in mind I haven't fully read the previous 16 session's worth of threads, I'd take all the pressure off, hack him out, perhaps give him a jump, let him learn to relax and enjoy being ridden again. Some horse's can't handle being schooled excessively - I own a couple, and the more you work in the school, the more you drill things the worse they get as they get as they get worried. Yet if I school once a week there's a much more noticeable improvement.
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I agree with this . . . and I believe I've said it before . . . I think Armas will gain much more strength and confidence in his own balance by being a horse. And, yes, that's a very trite phrase, but I know what I mean - so there ;).

P
 
Armas, I hope you don't mind me asking, but what is the end goal?

The end goal of his training with this rider (where I assume you will take over??)
Then the end goal of where you want him to be when you ride him (competing? dressage? Iberian breed classes?)

I'm curious to hear what you want from Armas in the long run and if you think he has the structure/mentality to get there.
 
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Hi James...yep I am still watching...

You mention at the end of the vid about suggestions from other posters regarding Armas' lameness ( I am not a vet so I could not comment) and she mentions that he is just not wanting to use his muscles behind and that he is a bit weak....so you reply that he needs to work on his musculation ...I am lovin' that word:)....
Would it be possible to ask her why she does not deem the use of transitions a valuable tool to help with the tempo she talks about and also the building up of back muscles....? Not being smart here...just interested.

Many thanks
Best wishes
Bryndu
 
Bryndu said:
Hi James...yep I am still watching...

You mention at the end of the vid about suggestions from other posters regarding Armas' lameness ( I am not a vet so I could not comment) and she mentions that he is just not wanting to use his muscles behind and that he is a bit weak....so you reply that he needs to work on his musculation .

Many thanks
Best wishes
Bryndu
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I have never commented but have watched most of your videos. I'm sorry to say but I do agree with other posts that the horse is lame. The rider in the video seems to think that viewers are only seeing this in the harder work and if he was lame we would see it from the start. In my opinion the horse is quite clearly not right behind even walking on a loose rein right at the start. It does not improve with work either. Look at his hind legs, he is not taking even steps.

Have you had a vet follow up recently after his issues earlier in the year?
 
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