Setting up a livery yard package

RubyFrench

RubyFrench

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Hello lovely HHO'ers,

I have the chance of taking on an exisiting livery yard (in terms of building and legality but no customers) and have been seriously mulling over the figures.

I am aware I wont get rich, but atm i am only working 12 hours a week and I would be better off doing this (of course if I actually find customers).

The thing I am struggling the most is working out the cost of food the liveries will consume, i have done my hay prices. I am thinking of including basic feed in the price so chaff and nuts.

I want to know what sort of feeds livery yards offer you, and how I can work out how much a horse might cost me in feed per week. I will have 6 liveries. I can't find any feeding guides on sny websites for the value/economy type of horse and pony nuts so don't know quantities. The ones I have found (more expensive brands) state to feed up to 2-3 kgs a day for larger horses, do people really feed to the guidelines? As when my horse was on nuts it was as a gesture and had just a small scoop (or 2) in 1 feed.

Many thanks in advance for anyone who made sense of that waffle!!
 
Although I have been on part inc food livery the feed offered is rarely what I'd choose and ended up feeling was subsidising the competition/poor doers as my mare doesn't need more than a balancer. Much better to have owners provide hard feed but for you to prepare and dole out. I doubt you would make anything out of buying in feed TBH.
 
No idea on weekly feed costs - I would however suggest that you either exclude feed from the weekly cost or give liveries the option to "personalize" their feed options and supply it to them at cost + a little extra to cover the costs of you organizing this?

I know that some yards work this way as many liveries don't want to feed bog standard cheap pony nuts and chaff and they end up paying extra to buy more specialized feed.
 
I have a small yard and do full and part livery, the horses are all fed individually on a small range of feeds , the cost is fixed so I may lose out on one but do better on another, it is only a few £s difference so feel it works out ok, owners provide or pay me for supplements as they need them. All horses have adlib hay or haylage and again I dont really vary the price, ponies are less than horses but otherwise they all pay the same.
If you cannot be flexible with feeding it would be best to leave the owners to get what they want and you just give it to them.
 
We used to do DIY and included haylage. It was quite a shock, having two good doers, just how much people shoveled down their TBs without putting any weight on them, so be prepared to up what you were expecting to use.

I would feed sugarbeet, chaff and a pasture mix type feed (not cheap and nasty, but reasonable quality) as basic feed, something that would be quite suitable for most horses/ponies as hard feed, then let people add things to that themselves if they need to or like to.
 
You may be better offering a slight more variaty of food, maybe a basic nut, basic mix, chaff or maybe somthing like just grass, and sugarbeet. Gives the liveries a little bit more choice then.
 
I think I may have finally got it sussed!

I now itemise feed per horse. I get a good deal on my haylage and it comes out at about £15 -£20 p week per horse ad lib (ish) However! When it snows, I can easily use a £30/bale on a horse in one week.
Likewise I hated it when something would arrive looking thin, I'd have to feed it more and I'd end up making nothing. Mine are all on a good chaff and a balancer, but I have the option if required.

I have probably lost the cheapskate owners, who thought their skinny tb was fine on some nuts, but people who actually want their horses looked after as individuals appreciate it :D

Good luck :)
 
As a livery I am never impressed with yards that think value mix/nuts are acceptable ....
I'd rather have a price minus hard feed and then supply my own
 
ihatework said:
As a livery I am never impressed with yards that think value mix/nuts are acceptable ....
I'd rather have a price minus hard feed and then supply my own
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See i didnt mean value nuts/mix, ours have dodson and horrel either high fibre nuts of pasture mix. I mean supplying basic feeds but for example competiton mix or condioning feeds are at liveries expense. But TBH ours all have adlib hay so dont actually need much hard feed as they maintain there weight on good quality hay.
 
Thanks guys :)

I did spend ages writing a list of all different types of chaff and mixes/nuts, sugar beet, calm and condition etc and worked out a "surcharge" for the more expensive ones but it gave me a headache!

I think i would get them to supply feed or get them to buy it off me for a "door stop" service eg they don't have to go to the feedstore and buy it themselves
 
Ruby French, just a word of warning... I'm absolutely not going to button push on this, but I asked the similar questions the other day because i was considering setting up a livery business and I got a warning from the admin team for conducting online market research:mad: so be careful asking for advice off other horsey people on this forum :rolleyes:;)
 
I provide a 'basic feed' but it is slightly adaptable ie standard is chaff, nuts, straights, beet all good quality and named, not off the floor cheapies! A couple of owners have a slightly different feed but by the same maker and if the difference isn't too bad then i buy it in. All other feeds and supplements are supplied at their own cost, unless they want livery to go up....;)

It can be hard to make some liveries see that the money they pay to me doesn't just go into my pocket - if only! A hell of a large chunk of it goes back into their horses, but short of literally showing them it all broken down you just have to nicely explain to some that while you try to accommodate you can't budge on everything.
 
I would also be careful about providing hay/haylage 'ad lib' I had a livery who thought it perfectly acceptable to give her horse 66lb (at least) of haylage for overnight consumption, I only found out when I saw the horse practically crippled with laminitis. Never underestimate how stupid people can be if something is included in the price!
BTW with 6 liveries you would be best offering a full/5 day livery package to maximise your income.
 
As some previous posters have suggested, I'd think about excluding the cost hard feed from your livery package. It might end up being contentious if you end up with a poor doer vs a chunky monkey who could happily live on air, for example. (I've been on a yard where this was the case and as it was at fixed cost, the chunky monkey owner was unhappy ....)

Personally I would leave it to the owners to buy their own feed in, and either leave it to them to make feeds up, or provide you with a menu for their horse so you could make them up on their behalf.

Perhaps you could offer to buy their chosen feed in for them whilst ordering yours and bill them? Then at least the hassle of getting the feed in is taken away from them .... just an idea.

Hope it works out!
 
If you are offering part livery then I would expect the feed to be included. I would also specify that you do use good quality feed, ie D&H or Saracens. I will not feed my horse low end feed. My yard feeds from the above range, if you want supplements you pay for them yourselves and bring them in but yard is quite flexible on it being competition or nuts etc. TBH most horses are quite happy on a straightforward feed of nuts and chaff. There are a couple who have gone off piste and provide their own feed but their horses are well off the bar in terms of tricky feeding. Yard also provides ad lib forage and again, I would not want to be in a yard again where it is restricted. I am an adult, I don't stuff my horse and we are expected to be sensible about it.. so we are. Its a fine line. I fully appreciate that with all the rising costs that yards do not have a great deal to play with, on the other hand, if you are paying around the £5-600 per month for part livery, then you expect your horse to be fed properly. I have been on a yard where the YO cut back and the horses never looked good plus charging (10 years ago) £1 for every extra section of hay. Not great when you 16.2 is only on 3 sections for 12 hours.

Work out your costs carefully, add in the unseen extras like field maintenance and upkeep and be really brutal with yourself. I have really feel for the YO who is doing it on their own as they always have to plug any gaps. Someone else can take different days off or go home sick but the buck well and truly stops with the YO!
 
RubyFrench said:
Thanks guys :)

I did spend ages writing a list of all different types of chaff and mixes/nuts, sugar beet, calm and condition etc and worked out a "surcharge" for the more expensive ones but it gave me a headache!

I think i would get them to supply feed or get them to buy it off me for a "door stop" service eg they don't have to go to the feedstore and buy it themselves
Click to expand...

Thank you :eek: I had no idea, I will wait and see what comes my way and hide!
 
Baggybreeches said:
I would also be careful about providing hay/haylage 'ad lib' I had a livery who thought it perfectly acceptable to give her horse 66lb (at least) of haylage for overnight consumption, I only found out when I saw the horse practically crippled with laminitis. Never underestimate how stupid people can be if something is included in the price!
BTW with 6 liveries you would be best offering a full/5 day livery package to maximise your income.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I didn't mention before.... the entire barn is of 13 stables, one girl is currently renting 7 and I would take on the extra 6 so I will be sticking to what she currently charges. She includes 6kg hay plus 25p per kilo extra, I guess so if you do have a massive horse who needs more it wont cost you the earth to feed it properly but will stop people from shoveling it down their horses necks!
 
RubyFrench said:
Thanks guys :)

I did spend ages writing a list of all different types of chaff and mixes/nuts, sugar beet, calm and condition etc and worked out a "surcharge" for the more expensive ones but it gave me a headache!

I think i would get them to supply feed or get them to buy it off me for a "door stop" service eg they don't have to go to the feedstore and buy it themselves
Click to expand...

We have an onsite feed shop which works really well and the feed is added as you 'buy' bags to your livery bill - horse gets what I'd like it to, I dn't have to muck about going to get it and prices are what I'd pay anywhere else :) ( I am on assisted DIY tho).

Prev when I've been on full livery I've ended up buying my own as what was supplied was not right - we did get a £5 per week discount :)
 
RubyFrench said:
Thanks, I didn't mention before.... the entire barn is of 13 stables, one girl is currently renting 7 and I would take on the extra 6 so I will be sticking to what she currently charges. She includes 6kg hay plus 25p per kilo extra, I guess so if you do have a massive horse who needs more it wont cost you the earth to feed it properly but will stop people from shoveling it down their horses necks!
Click to expand...

I would do a bit more research on how much hay at least in winter. My 16.2 and 17 h easily get through twice that in winter and that's if they go out in the day. Neither is overweight.

ON full livery I expect to get enough forage to keep my horse well and some eat more than others. If I'm not throwing hay away and my horses are not overweight I don't expect to be rationed. Yes keep an eye people aren't wasting hay but 6kg is a bit low.

Feedwise I would expect my straights to be included as they are not expensive or if they can't then I have negotiated a discount and supplied my own.
 
I have decided!

The other girls price includes chaff/nuts and 6k hay, I think I will scrap the feed and increase hay to at least 8/10kg depending if horse or pony. A lot of her liveries are lami or ems (she runs a fat camp lol) so that's probably why hay is so low.

Is this more along the right lines? Obvz if snow on ground it will be higher but it should equal out over summer when they aren't in as much?
 
RubyFrench said:
I have decided!

The other girls price includes chaff/nuts and 6k hay, I think I will scrap the feed and increase hay to at least 8/10kg depending if horse or pony. A lot of her liveries are lami or ems (she runs a fat camp lol) so that's probably why hay is so low.

Is this more along the right lines? Obvz if snow on ground it will be higher but it should equal out over summer when they aren't in as much?
Click to expand...

Grrrrr, fatcamp with less forage and more nuts and chaff grrrrrr!

Erm, anyway. yes I agree 6kg was too low. I don't think there should be a limit at all. Full and part livery usually mean ad lib hay. If my horse, who is a good doer, were to have to stay in for a whole day she would want about 12kgs of hay which I don't think is unreasonable...
 
I dont have a problem with cheapo pony nuts/mix... in fact my horses have looked just as good on the cheapo stuff as the more expensive stuff. If you have a mole valley store near you, their feeds are quite good, and keenly priced.

How about looking into something like Pure Feeds? You can order different sorts from them, delivered to the door, and should be something to suit all types of horses?
 
The yard I'm at right now is different from anything I had before. Until now, the YO would supply two feeds (one higher in energy and protein and one lower) and anyone who wanted anything different could bring in. Loved it. If it was good for my horse, I would stick to it and not have to worry about feed, if I thought it wasn't up to par, I would just bring the feed it and be done with it.

The place I'm at now insists they buy the feed themselves, and then make me pay a 6% surcharge for ordering. It really bugs me because I would much rather get the feed myself and make sure everything is the way I like it. If the yard wasn't super nice in other aspects, this could potentially be a deal breaker for me.
 
I would rather not have feed included and buy it myself so that my horse gets what she needs. You can't feed all horses the same feed, it isn't as simple as just varying the amount they get.

Also I think even at 12kg your haylage ration is tight. Either up your price and include more or allow for people to pay more for a higher amount. Our yard has a limit of about this and my not very big or very greedy horse needs more than this to hold weight, I pay extra for more haylage, some of the others who are on packages that include feed end up feeding more hard feed to keep the weight on when it would be more economical for the YO to up the haylage.
 
I run a livery yard where all horses are on full or part livery. I don't like cheap economy feeds. I like to feed mixes by the Pure Feeds company. At the moment, notne of the horses is in medium or hard work and so they are all on Pure Easy. It is around £12 a 15kg sack. I like this feed because it is free of mollasses, contains a balancer and smells absolutely lush! So it is really easy to feed as each scoop happens to weigh a kg and you don't have to mess about with different amounts of mixes and chaffs. Most of the year the horses only get one feed. But from November until the end of March they get two feeds a day. One horse will get 15 feeds per bag, so it will last one week in the winter and two weeks in the summer. When horses are competing or in harder work I just move them onto Pure feeds Working or Pure Feeds Racing.

I know this works out more costly than some feeds, but it is worth it for the ease of feeding and for the knowledge that all of the horses are getting a carefully balanced feed. They all look great on it. Coats and hooves have improved since I changed to it two years ago.
 
Billie1007 said:
Grrrrr, fatcamp with less forage and more nuts and chaff grrrrrr!

Erm, anyway. yes I agree 6kg was too low. I don't think there should be a limit at all. Full and part livery usually mean ad lib hay. If my horse, who is a good doer, were to have to stay in for a whole day she would want about 12kgs of hay which I don't think is unreasonable...
Click to expand...

A horse at maintenance or light work (recreational riding) will typically eat 2% of its bodyweight in dry matter; therefore a 500kg horse will eat around 10kg of dry matter per day. At least 70% of this dry matter should be good quality forage.
 
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