Settle a "discussion" about bits

What date for the HHO meetup next year?

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It's a cliche but it depends who's on the end of the reins and how you use it!

I use a waterford sometimes on my horse and he responds really well to it. I have also used a 3 ring gag and he hates it, but then the action is really different.

I don't think you can compare them because the action is so different.
 
Taken from Shop 4 Bits


This bit has a chain type mouthpiece which has ‘ball shaped links’ linked together, the bit is floppy and mobile in everyway, it is completely movable in all directions. The Waterford mouthpiece has proved one of the most popular bits for bitting problems such as leaning, taking hold of the bit, setting the jaw ect, when the horse tries to lean or take hold of the bit, the waterford mouthpiece collapses, thus the horse has nothing rigid to take hold of. It encourages the horse to work of their quarters and carry themselves rather than using the bit as a ‘bike handle’ to lean on. This bit has several joints and distributes the pressure of the mouthpiece over both the tongue and bars. Also this bit may look severe, this is quite a mild bit and due to the mobility of the mouthpiece it generally suits any breed of horse and mouth confirmation. The Waterford mouth should be worn ¼” - ½” longer than any other mouthpiece as the mouthpiece needs to curl slightly around the lips to enable the bit to work to its full potential (except the Waterford Pelham – as the mouthpiece is worn the normal length).
 
For the puposes of needing a stronger bit for a horse that grabs is and canters off either jumping or out on a hack.
 
I don't think its a case of a bit being stronger. They both do very different jobs. I would say that in the wrong hands the gag could do more damage to the horse...
I would have thought the waterford would help in the above senario though
 
I think it depends what you mean by stronger. I think on certain horses a waterford could be more effective than a gag. However, it depends on the horse and the riders hands. I think if the horse is a TB type or type liable to fling its head in the air and clear off, a gag would be more suitable. However, a native type or heavier type horse, which puts its head down and tanks off with a hold on the bit would respond better to a waterford.
 
well dpeends on what mouth piece you have in the gag as well doesn't it after all you can get waterford gags!

I consider waterfords to be harsh as they work on all parts of the mouth and used badly can ruin the horses entire mouth by completly desensitising it.

A french link gag would not do this it would just use the extra poll pressure.

So for harshness on the mouth I's say waterford is harsher but over all? As ever depends doesn't it.
 
Not sure which is stronger, but a friend of mine had the EDT out for her horse (ridden in a waterford snaffle) and got a right telling off - apparently they cause all sorts of damage to the mouth and teeth.
 
The best test to see how any bit feels is to wrap it around your fore arm and then close it. That way you know excatly how it feels around your horses mouth.

I have a 15.3hh cob who used to be ridden in an egbut fulmer, he hated it, everytime the nut cracker action happend he opened his mouth and grimaced! I changed it to a french link, he was better but still not happy. Then he discovered bucking! I just couldn't get his head up and he was holding on to the bit and leaning on it. I swapped to the Waterford Gag using two reins he took to it so well and stopped bucking and leaning on me. Now we have lost the pelham rein and he is still beautifully submissive. He tries his little heart out for me. I'm hoping that sometime in the near future we will end up either in a fulmer cheeked waterford or a hanging cheek waterford. I love this bit and two of my friends have since started using it just because of the results I got with it. Long live the Waterford!!!
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Not sure which is stronger, but a friend of mine had the EDT out for her horse (ridden in a waterford snaffle) and got a right telling off - apparently they cause all sorts of damage to the mouth and teeth.

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Again - depends on the horse and the rider IMO - no offence
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I have a waterford loose ring which does work wonders on my large cob x who like bucking and leaning to evade me, but I must say he gets bored with it and does lean on it after a while. This is when we swap to a tom thumb for a couple of weeks and then he goes lovely in the waterford again !!

It does total depend on the hand that use it.

I use my tom thumb on the lower shank and H goes lovely in it, but I do have soft hands and it gives me the added bonus os picking his head up when he trys to buck !!!!
 
i put waterford just because you can change the setting on a gag.

*excuse me, im not 'bit knowlege worthy!'* just having a crack at it xxx
 
I would say a Dutch gag is stronger (assuming you are not using it just on the snaffle rein and there actually is some gag action).

I have used both on my horse - he hates gags and loves the waterford - but some horses would prefer a gag...

I personally think gags have a much more severe action... The poll pressure is very strong... obviously depends on the rider tho
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I don't think its a case of a bit being stronger. They both do very different jobs.

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Bingo. Bitting is almost a science in and rightly so.. Both of the bits work in very different ways, and of course can be combined to form a waterford gag! The two bits you have described are essentially one type of mouthpiece and one type of cheek. A continental gag cheek works on poll pressure whereas a waterford mouthpiece works on the tongue and bars of the mouth. Both can do damage, both can be strong.. As someone else said 'How long's a piece of string..'
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ETS.. In this scenario -

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I mean generally, in the same hands, on the same horse?

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It depends on both the horse and the rider!
 
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