settle my mind about soaking hay please?

[lhotse]

Hence my post stated that the majority or cases, but not all. There are always going to animals out there who will get it no matter how much care is taken, but they are the minority in my view. Case in point, mare on our yard has laminitis today, why? Because she has been turned out on the summer turnout for the last two weeks from 8am till 6pm, no muzzle, and she has gorged herself on the spring grass, simple.

I am not making a sweeping statement that ALL ponies who get laminitis are because of the management they receive, but the majority of cases are preventable, as in your case, you know what triggers it, so prevent it from happening, and that is good management

 

[tallyho!]

Laminitis is still a learning curve for owners, vets, ecologists, farriers, trimmers and hearing others experiences on here (not just today but the endless list of lami threads).

Every week I read something new in the development.

Just this week I was enlightened to the fact that urea & nitrates have a part to play (thanks Rob) as well as potassium.

Not only that, kidney function and liver toxicosis (maybe why some can't tolerate vitamins whatsoever) is also a risk factor.

We have to look beyond feet & grass as that is only the tip of the iceberg...

 

[binkymerlin]

good discussion going on! now, i soaked my hay today and checked it throughout the time i was up there (3hours). two factors here, 1- its cooler 2-it wasnt left in for so long. AND... it was all good. i did notice that after 20-30 mins that the water was starting to turn brown. my thoughts? i will be taking this up with the vet, joy! and doing reasearch and experimenting< not on my horse tho.

 

[dumpling]

I think a few hours is suffice. Any longer and there's more bacteria going into it! I know someone that soaks theres over night and it absolutely stinks you can smell it before you see it. The horse eats it though. I'm sure that I read somewhere if it's been soaked for that long too the water is stagnant and basically has the same bacteria as a sewer!

 

[amandap]

We have to look beyond feet & grass as that is only the tip of the iceberg...

I like to sererate feet and grass. I see grass as something to, as you say, look beyond but imo feet/hooves are a good indicator of how body functions are doing generally. If feet aren't right then something isn't right with the horse.

Good to hear that binkymerlin.

 

[Tnavas]

I hope someone with a horse with laminitis doesn't take this advice. Reducing or stopping grass altogether is not enough for many horses when they have laminitis.

Exercise is crucial for keeping laminitis at bay, but care must be taken when in an acute attack..

Commonsense would tell you that exercise is not for the horse in an acute lamanitic state - but bringing in, on a soft bed and fed meadow hay has been the traditional way to care for a lamanitic horse/pony. Have had a few in my care over the past 40 odd years and all have responded well to this treatment.

All the sufferers were the result of insufficient exercise in ratio to feed eaten.

 

[Tnavas]

Evelyn,

Interested in what you say. I have a cob who would get fat in the proverbial car park. During late spring to early autumn (i.e. when it's light enough after work) he is ridden for at least an hour 3 times a week & about 3 hours a day at the weekends. After the recent dry spell the summer field has no grass & I been topping up with soaked hay for the last couple of days - 1 net per horse per day. I put the hay in small piles to encourage them to move around. He has no hard feed just a small handful of chaff (unmollassed) to put a broad spectrum vitamin supplement in to make up the vits/minerals lost in the soaked hay. If I gave him any less I would be concerned about colic from lack of fibre, I work 5 days per week with 2 hour round trip commute so can't up the amount of work. What would be your suggestion?

Sounds like you have it covered - I personally wouldn't worry about soaking the hay - putting it in small piles is good to get him moving around. The only thing I would do is to give him a vitamin mineral block in the paddock so he can help himself when he needs it. Make sure that your work is a mixture of steady trotting and some canter work - the trotting keeps him fit and the canter will burn off some extra calories.

I've resorted to a muzzle on my Clydie mare as she is turned out with her 2½yr old daughter who needs good grass as she is growing - Serenity comes into the yard at night with a slice of meadow hay in a haynet with small holes. In the day time - 7:30am - 5:00pm she is out with a muzzle on. I tried her on an almost dirt paddock and she ended up with a swollen face - may have eaten something she shouldn't have. She is not impressed with the muzzle but she needs to reduce her tum.

 

[bathmat]

You do not need to soak hay for 24hrs!!! Or 12hrs!!! or even an hour!!!

Ewww, what is the point of leaving it to stew in it's own sugars, salts, potassiums, urea (yes UREA!).

It takes approx 20mins to leach out toxins and sugars from grass.

Think about it...

When dry matter is exposed to water, by the process of osmosis, salts, sugars and all that is bound to it goes up the gradient and is removed. However, once the dry matter reached a the same gradient as the water, stuff can flow back in. So you have soaked all the stuff back in that you wanted to soak out.

I mean, feeding 24hr soaked hay will still be okay as the sugars have fermented (think about beer and cider) but why would you want to give a horse that kind of feed when you don't have to.

Check the colour of the water after 30mins and you will see it is nearly the same colour as a 24hr soaking except it doesn't smell. If you still doubt me and think I'm a loser, use a urine-test strip available from your friendly Community Nurse at the surgery and check the sugar levels at 30minute intervals.

Anyway -that was my thoughts on soaking.

Very intereting thoughts!

 

[LouandBee]

Back to the original OP.............I know what you mean about the vinegary smell - I found that with the hay I was soaking for my fatty last year. I just made sure I rinsed it thoroughly after soaking and made sure it was in the shade on hot days.

I soak his hay overnight - so sometimes longer than 12 hours, sometimes less.

I understood it that it needs to be about 8 hours soaking to be effective for laminitics/ to reduce the sugar contents. 20-30 mins soaking is what you do if you want to reduce the dust levels, not for a laminitic -but if in doubt ask your vet.

 

[luckyjac]

A very nice lady at the laminitis trust told me to soak hay for up to an hour!

 

[Tnavas]

OK, I'm going to upset the proverbial applecart here. The majority of cases of laminitis are caused by overfeeding, so that is down to the owner. The rate of Cushings syndrome is through the roof, as are metabolic disorders. I know of several vets who believe there is a link between obesity and the onset of these conditions. Twenty years ago, Cushings was few and far between, and always in older ponies. Now every yard has several with it, and they are young. I agree with Evelyn, modern methods of keeping horses are not always to their benefit, laminitis is almost always preventable by management, and I believe that if there were not so many fat ponies around, the rate of Cushings would come down too.

Definately not upset my applecart - I totally agree with you.

I firmly believe that many of the current problems our equines are suffering from is the direct result of feeding processed feeds - especially those that contain soy products. (These have been proven to cause metabolic problems in humans)

People are brainwashed into believing that their horse/pony MUST be fed - despite the fact that most living out 24/7 will do fine on just grass. I still rarely hard feed mine that are out on grass. Work load, weather and grass conditions dictate when I hard feed.

 

[tallyho!]

Definately not upset my applecart - I totally agree with you.

I firmly believe that many of the current problems our equines are suffering from is the direct result of feeding processed feeds - especially those that contain soy products. (These have been proven to cause metabolic problems in humans)

People are brainwashed into believing that their horse/pony MUST be fed - despite the fact that most living out 24/7 will do fine on just grass. I still rarely hard feed mine that are out on grass. Work load, weather and grass conditions dictate when I hard feed.

I quite agree with you Evelyn. It's the fancy advertising - there should be more accountability and regulation with regards to magazine ads. Even I have been spellbound! Thanks goodness someone spotted my horse was having liver & kidney problems (thanks to F4F - which I swore by a year ago!!!). I was literally killing him with vits & mins!!!!

I could never have sued if worse case scenario played out - they are too clever. Dr Eustace is just another business.