Severe muscle wastage

Cortez

Cortez

Tough but Fair
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I have a horse who has the worst muscle wastage on his back I have ever seen. This is the result of being ridden for several years in a badly fitting saddle; when I bought him the entire top of his withers came off in my hand as a massive scab. The whole of his back was wasted, but particularly just behind the withers and under the back of the saddle area (where it was so bad I could feel the ribs where they attach to the spinal process). He wasn't underweight, nor particularly sore in the back. Now, 18 months later, he is in great condition, the area behind the withers is filled in, but he still has a noticeable dip on both sides of his spine right under the back of the saddle. Several saddle fitters and a physio have told me this will never come back. He now works over his back well, we do all the obvious back-lifting exercises, and at least I can no longer feel the ribs there. He is a PRE stallion and has quite high withers for his breed, with a wide barrel which makes finding a suitable saddle quite difficult. Does anybody have experience of this type of problem, and recommendations for pads or other remedies? Someone told me a Prolite pad would be helpful?
 
Do you have any photos? What did the saddle fitters suggest re: pads?

I like the acavallo gel pads as they are nice and soft although haven't actually used one of the thicker type pads
 
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This is him 18 months ago - you can't really see the damage. Although you can see the white hairs on the wither - this is what came away in my hand a couple of days later.
 
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Love my prolite, I use it for my tb. I bought the one with removable riser inserts as he has similar wastage either side of his withers.

The saddle he came with pinched badly, no idea how long he'd been ridden in it but it didn't do him any good :-(

Got him in a medium Ideal dressage with the prolite pad and its perfect, he moves beautifully now.
 
The saddler recommended prolite pads, I have never used them but am a bit opposed to anything other than a thin pad to keep the saddle clean (and a well-fitting saddle, obviously). Despite being quite a round barrelled horse, he appears to fit a narrow tree - unusual in a Spanish horse. I have a medium wide saddle which the saddler said would be OK if there was a prolite pad to "take it down a size". I also have a narrow treed saddle, which doesn't fit him at all and rests on his wither even before it is girthed up (never attempted to ride him in this, obviously).
 
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Lucky boy he has ended up with you, I had a pony come here that had dips of wastage at the back of his saddle, they were pretty deep, the vet said nothing would really make much difference, physio was a bit more hopeful, he did improve a little once the saddle had changed.
I found that stimulating the area several times a day, just massaging with my fingers over the whole area before and after riding along with tummy lifts and correct work, did make a visible difference, a massage pad would probably help, anything to get the area reacting should start to get the muscles moving again although he will probable never be how he should it is surprising how they can change even after years of incorrect use.
 
we had a pony with very severe asymmetrical muscle wastage who we worked regularly with our saddler and physio to build him up and redevelop using a prolite with removable shims.....which were reassessed and changed if necessary every few weeks as his muscles built up again. Worked a treat in the end although he still managed to look like a llama at every available opportunity!
 
I'm a bit meh on Prolite pads as I find them thick, hard and I'm not keen on the feel. Never say never and I have used them and will use them again, but they aren't my first pick. I like some of the memory foam and gel pads more.

For a horse with a severe issue that you are trying to fix, I'd also suggest you look into one of the pads with shims systems, that way you can keep customising. Also Acavello makes sectional gel pads that always look like a bit of a bad idea to me but they actually seem to work really well. I am also a BIG fan of the sheepskin pads straight on to the back. I know people don't like doing that because it gets the pad dirty but that is how they are supposed to be used and I have had so many sensitive horses respond well to it.

I'll be honest, I have DIYed pads for horses in the past, using all sorts of materials and "moulding" a pad to the horse. It's a huge faff but I'm a bit of a gadget freak and a couple of times it's really done the job for me.
 
be positive said:
I found that stimulating the area several times a day, just massaging with my fingers over the whole area before and after riding along with tummy lifts and correct work, did make a visible difference, a massage pad would probably help, anything to get the area reacting should start to get the muscles moving again although he will probable never be how he should it is surprising how they can change even after years of incorrect use.
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Ditto this. If you can, get a hand held massager (they sell them in boots, argos etc) and use it on the area for 10 minutes before exercise. It helps to increase blood flow, and therefore will increase muscle.
 
Cortez said:
The saddler recommended prolite pads, I have never used them but am a bit opposed to anything other than a thin pad to keep the saddle clean (and a well-fitting saddle, obviously). Despite being quite a round barrelled horse, he appears to fit a narrow tree - unusual in a Spanish horse. I have a medium wide saddle which the saddler said would be OK if there was a prolite pad to "take it down a size". I also have a narrow treed saddle, which doesn't fit him at all and rests on his wither even before it is girthed up (never attempted to ride him in this, obviously).
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So really you have a couple of issues, firstly that you don't have a saddle with a suitable tree width and then you are battling against the other issue of his muscle wastage. In addition this horse appears to have a very straight back and as I've been through saddle searches recently myself on a horse with a straight back, there are limited options with needing to find a saddle with a fairly flat tree and flat panels - not easy :)

I too am of the opinion that less is more in regards to saddle pads so if it were me I would be trying to find as close a fit as possible in terms of saddle, so not padding out a medium wide to make the width a better fit but trying to find a medium saddle with flat panels. If you still need to pad the muscle wastage part of the back then you should be able to be more precise.
 
The saddle in which he is normally ridden is a pretty good fit treewise (it is an adjustable tree baroque saddle, and I use a sheepskin 1/2 pad directly on his back already), it is more an issue with finding a conventional modern saddle that will "do", and something that will help with relieving the obvious area of wastage. There is, I believe, a prolite pad which uses shims and this is the one I had the recommendation for, might give it a go and see what we get. To be fair, he has come on considerably since we've had him and has never complained or shown any resistance; I'd just like to be able to help him as much as possible.
 
TarrSteps said:
For a horse with a severe issue that you are trying to fix, I'd also suggest you look into one of the pads with shims systems, that way you can keep customising. Also Acavello makes sectional gel pads that always look like a bit of a bad idea to me but they actually seem to work really well. I am also a BIG fan of the sheepskin pads straight on to the back. I know people don't like doing that because it gets the pad dirty but that is how they are supposed to be used and I have had so many sensitive horses respond well to it.

I'll be honest, I have DIYed pads for horses in the past, using all sorts of materials and "moulding" a pad to the horse. It's a huge faff but I'm a bit of a gadget freak and a couple of times it's really done the job for me.
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I've found a Reactorpanel saddle very good for rebuilding muscle, the only downside is the weight, but all my horses have gone well in mine. For the wastage, the quickest way is to use an EMS machine on him to build up the muscle as it works on both sides evenly. Its a bit of a faff, but I've had some spectacular results with it. They are readily available on Ebay and other sites.I use the Sanitas one which has several options. A very useful piece of kit, and it won't break the bank.
 
I would be looking to get the same pressure across the whole area and the only way I know to do that is with air. If you don't want to use a saddle flocked with air, then a korrector pad, as someone else has suggested, will also do the trick. Nice horse!
 
I recently encountered a similar issue with my TB ex- racer. My saddler recommended a le mieu half pad with foam shims in 4 different pockets- we are using none at the back, but two layers in the front. Not too bad at £40 and can continue to be adjusted. I wonder if this might benefit you but perhaps with padding in the back only if I've understood your description properly?
 
be positive said:
I found that stimulating the area several times a day, just massaging with my fingers over the whole area before and after riding along with tummy lifts and correct work, did make a visible difference, a massage pad would probably help, anything to get the area reacting should start to get the muscles moving again although he will probable never be how he should it is surprising how they can change even after years of incorrect use.
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I'm another that agrees with this. My pony (21 year old welshie) developed a dip on one side of her back. The vet wasn't much help but a visit from the physio helped tremendously. She showed me how to massage the area and gave the pony exercises such as carrot stretches to do regularly. The dipped area improved so that you could hardly tell the difference between the two sides of her back.
 
Thank you all, I will be trying out a thin pad with pockets to add shims at the back (not sure of the make just yet). He's improved a lot since we began, so I have hope that we can continue to build up the "problem area". I am assuming that the area of long muscle under the saddle has not just atrophied, but actually necrotised/died and will never return. Will consult with physio re massage/stimulation options.
 
One of my oldies has this problem. The vet recently suggested lunging in a pessoa to encourage him to stretch his back muscles and to (hopefully) then build them back up slowly. Might help I suppose, confess I've not tried yet as there is the small problem of not owing a pessoa!!!! (Working on it)

btw - the damage was caused years ago before I bought him and called in a saddle fitter - the saddle he'd been worked in while young was really bad, way too narrow and too long for his back. One of the first things I did when I bought him was call in a saddle fitter. However, it's only now in his advancing years that the damage from all those years ago has come home to roost.
 
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3OldPonies said:
One of my oldies has this problem. The vet recently suggested lunging in a pessoa to encourage him to stretch his back muscles and to (hopefully) then build them back up slowly. Might help I suppose, confess I've not tried yet as there is the small problem of not owing a pessoa!!!! (Working on it)
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He has no problem with working long and low, either lunging or riding, and goes over cavalletti like a pro - he's a really willing and co-operative chap who does all his back-building exercises with a smile on his face, hence I think why we have had success with the other areas. It's just these last, stubborn places that are left. Sorry, but I REALLY HATE the pessoa - nasty hock-hobble things that punish the horse in the mouth with every step.
 
Fair point about the pessoa, and thanks for the info - I had wondered having looked at them. I thought the poor horses looked like a turkey trussed up for the Christmas oven. Which is why I didn't rush out to try and find or borrow one. I wanted to take my time and see if there was an alternative that isn't so awkward and dare i say 'vicious' looking. Especially as he is an old chap and ridden work isn't possible, even lunging I have to be careful because of his spavins. tbh was mildy suprised at the vet suggesting lunging given his spavin problem.

OP - sorry I didn't mean to hijack your post!!!!
 
3OldPonies said:
Fair point about the pessoa, and thanks for the info - I had wondered having looked at them. I thought the poor horses looked like a turkey trussed up for the Christmas oven. Which is why I didn't rush out to try and find or borrow one. I wanted to take my time and see if there was an alternative that isn't so awkward and dare i say 'vicious' looking. Especially as he is an old chap and ridden work isn't possible, even lunging I have to be careful because of his spavins. tbh was mildy suprised at the vet suggesting lunging given his spavin problem.

OP - sorry I didn't mean to hijack your post!!!!
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Not at all, hijack away! I too am surprised that your vet suggested working an old horse (with spavins, yet!) this way. Lunging, with nothing on (the horse! The horse!) over poles on the ground or cavalletti would also encourage him to lift his legs and back, I would think.
 
I have the prolite pad but the one with the various shims so you can adjust as you need. It is quite thin and wouldn't say it was hard.


I use Lavinia Mitchell who works with a lot of horse in a similar position to your and she showed me some very interesting before and after templates of horses, many of which had been told like yours they would not rebuild the muscle so hopefully you can still get some improvement.
 
Thanks Cortez!

I was thinking that maybe some poles and no gadgets (as a general rule I don't like them I think they are like taking shortcuts and not always horse friendly either) might be the way to go. Also, I have poles and a means of raising them slightly, so no need to beg, borrow or purchase anything.

Hope you get the mw problem with yours sorted, seems like there are plenty of suggestions for pads and shims that would help, I'll be bearing those in mind as well if we look like getting to the point where an amble up and down the lanes might once again be possible. So thanks also to everyone else who has posted with suggestions.
 
My friend's PRE gelding is in a Wintec Isabell with the widest gullet fitted and air flock and a sheepskin half pad only if he drops weight in the winter, otherwise just a thin cotton numnah is used and is very happy in it. It took her over two years to find something that suited the horse as he is very broad across his back, completely deviod of any discernable wither and built uphill as well so everything seemed perched. I am also using exactly the same set up on my small but wide (with withers) welsh cob and after years of made to measure saddles she goes the best she has ever done with this set up. The nice thing about the new Wintecs is that you can add shims into the saddle itself which fit between the tree and the air flock and can be changed and adjusted very easily as the horse changes shape without altering the feel of the air panels on the horses back. I personally have never liked prolite pads but then I've always had wide horses and they just make the saddle perch and rock about on those types as all they do is lift the saddle too far away from the back which in itself makes the horses uncomfortable due to excessive saddle movement. I too share your opinion of Pessoas, horrid things that should in my opinion be banned as it is just utter craziness to tie a horses mouth to his hocks. I hate to think what would happen if the horse tripped!
 
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