Shall I cut hay back regardless?

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Megibo

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Ok so here are my 2 girls, as you can see both are overweight at the moment (stupid winter, being so mild! :p)

Kali-
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Meg-
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For various reasons and mainly because its free I'm putting them back on straw supplied by the yard. As its lovely soft golden stuff I'm assuming they're going to eat it again! They're on big beds... So was wondering if it would be cruel to cut their hay right back? (also lovely soft stuff)
I've got 2 tricklenets, a red one that would hold 2 sections of hay stuff full and a purple one which holds 3.. obviously red would be for Meg and purple for Kali.. what do you think? They come in between 1-3 each day and go out about 8-8.30am the next morning.

At the moment they get the large (but not the massive) shires small holed haynets. Not that it slows them down any!
 
Oh and I meant to say, hard feed wise each get a baileys cup of wet fast fibre, a small handful of molasses free chaff, handful of grass nuts (am) little bit of corn oil in both feeds and 1/2 a baileys cup of balancer (pm)
 
Megibo said:
Oh and I meant to say, hard feed wise each get a baileys cup of wet fast fibre, a small handful of molasses free chaff, handful of grass nuts (am) little bit of corn oil in both feeds and 1/2 a baileys cup of balancer (pm)
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I would cut out everything except the balancer, if you're sure they need that (I'm not convinced about balancers, personally) before cutting down the hay but there is no reason why they shouldn't eat some straw. Although I have to be careful with one of mine because she gets colic from eating straw.
 
How about upping their excercise too?

I would be tempted to cut out all hard feed bar the balancer before cutting down the hay....
 
My mare tends to be a good doer as well. I get my own hay in, so it's always second cut. You could soak the hay for 12 hours to reduce calorie content. It's important that the gut keeps moving so I would make sure they always have something to eat. There is also the eliminet which is equivalent of putting two small holed haynets one inside the other. This really does slow them down a bit. I have to say I feed mine loose on the floor and let her feed naturally. For her it actually slows her down as she doesn't get into that have to keep pulling habit. She tends to be very ginger and eats just a few strands at a time if you watch her, she sifts it so carefully!! However I appreciate that not all horses slow down for loose hay and a lot of people find it messy. Do you need to feed the corn oil? That will be calorific. And do they need the grass nuts? Mine just gets the handful of lite chaff and her supplements (including vit and min) she looks fab for a 24 year old on this!!
 
I'd be very careful eliminating all their hay and just feeding straw. Colic would be a big worry especially if the weather was to turn colder and they get impaction colic and don't drink enough water. How about mixing some straw with their hay rations in their haynets. They would really have to work at their nets through the night and it would eek out the hay. Or putting lighter weight rugs on, so they burn off a few calories keeping warm. Or as Sidney suggests - more exercise .
 
They only get hard feed as everything else gets fed :)

I have elimanets sorry don't know why I put trickle! Doesn't slow either of them down sadly !
Once the hard feed runs out then I will leave it out except for a handfull of chaff.

Exercise wise, Meg is doing groundwork at the mo about 20 mins gentle lunging/long reining to see if the steroids in her spine are working so no hard work for her!
And Kali works for about 1/2 hour a few times a week in the school as she's 4 1/2. Don't want to do too much!

Oh and both in 100g fill rugs, though tempted to leave Kali naked overnight as her clip has almost grown out!
Am just concerned about both staying on the same amount of hay, and then eating their entire straw bed and putting even more weight on (which is what Kali does, she just does not stop eating!)
 
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It might be worth trying the trickle net instead of the eliminet, it certainly slowed my greedy mare down. I'd also soak the hay if at all possible.
 
From what you have said I would take off rugs if you can - my girl is out naked with a small clip and fine. and soak the hay for 12 hours so it is giving them bulk, but no nutrition other than the fibre. By starving them, you will only make them store what they get, they need to be eating to keep the gut going and keep burning calories. What kind of field do they go out on?
 
crazyhorse37 said:
From what you have said I would take off rugs if you can - my girl is out naked with a small clip and fine. and soak the hay for 12 hours so it is giving them bulk, but no nutrition other than the fibre. By starving them, you will only make them store what they get, they need to be eating to keep the gut going and keep burning calories. What kind of field do they go out on?
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Meg is fully clipped so can't leave her totally naked! Will see if I can soak hay. Wasn't planning on starving them, just if I should reduce hay as I know they'll finish their nets and then stuff their beds too! Its a large field, boggy by the gate but they have their heads down nibbling away for a few hours before wanting to come back in.
 
I thought the same, Wagtail. Neither are massive porkers unless you have a magic camera that takes off lbs. If that's the case, come and do a photoshoot of me.
 
Agree that they are not hugely overweight but if we have an early spring, their weight could become an issue then.......I'ld rather see a horse a little lean at this time of year.
 
Meg is 353kg on the weightape (I use it for observation purposes!) and at her ideal she's 335kg as she was when this picture was taken-
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And Kali has a big neck and belly on her! Hence both needing weight off before spring time. :)
 
I don't think Kali is over weight at all I do like to see them fairly lean by the end of winter though and the winter has not arrived yet, I would stop all hard feed-they don't need to be fed because the others are (mine is the only one in a yard of 40+ that does not get fed when the others do), reduce rugs on the youngster, the other looks to be carrying a belly but if she has spine problems she may not be using her back and stomach muscles to carry herself and it may be lack of toned muscles rather than weight, I would not reduce her rugs as I would not want her to get a chilled back.

the cols stuff is on its way and that will shed a few pounds. soak hay for 24hrs rather than feeding less of it-colic is a high risk at this time of year with a lack of green stuff going through their guts.
 
Cut forage at your peril, the equine gut is designed to process fibre for 22 hours a day.

The cobs are weak over their tops and have a bit of a tub with gives an impression of being overweight. In your position I would double net good quality hay and give them plenty and put up a good mineral lick in their boxes.

When they can be worked you will find their tummies will tighten and their back/quarters and loins will strengthen.
 
Don't wait till the hard feed runs out, stop it now and keep it in reserve for when the cold weather arrives, just feed the balancer. I wouldn't cut back on hay either, maybe soak it for a couple of hours and see how they go, you can always soak for longer in they're not losing enough.
 
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AdorableAlice said:
Cut forage at your peril, the equine gut is d esigned to process fibre for 22 hours a day.

The cobs are weak over their tops and have a bit of a tub with gives an impression of being overweight. In your position I would double net good quality hay and give them plenty and put up a good mineral lick in their boxes.

When they can be worked you will find their tummies will tighten and their back/quarters and loins will strengthen.
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Thanks all. Looks like I'll be soaking hay (if I can), upping exercise for K, double netting (not that it really slows them down at all!) and cutting out breakfast and dinner!

AdorableAlice said:
Cut forage at your peril, the equine gut is designed to process fibre for 22 hours a day.

The cobs are weak over their tops and have a bit of a tub with gives an impression of being overweight. In your position I would double net good quality hay and give them plenty and put up a good mineral lick in their boxes.

When they can be worked you will find their tummies will tighten and their back/quarters and loins will strengthen.
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As I have said, wasn't planning to cut forage out at all, my question was if eating their straw bed alongside the hay they already get would hinder me in my attempt to get weight off them. Kali has just started on a work plan to help her get some topline, lunging in an equi-ami a couple times of week (though being introduced verrry slowy) and we have some great hills around us for hacking! :)

If the vet gives Meg the all clear to be re-introduced back to work she will do the same but sadly it looks unlikely.
 
Sidney said:
I find that if I mix a little 'mucky' straw in with any new, it stops mine eating it!!!
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Lol both just sift through and pick out the clean regardless!

As of today though Meg has 2 smaller nets doubled up, Kali has one shires net stuffed full and two other nets over it ! As double netting doesn't slow her down but the triple netting means she's getting little bits out and not stuffing herself so hopefully this will work. Have also cut hard feed back even more and will try to exercise them daily. Can't soak hay but will monitor weight on the tape so hopefully they don't put any weight on eating their beds.
 
Maybe try stable fresh, my girl used to eat her bed and even with cribox spray on it but stable fresh can be used to stop bed eaters and I found it worked really well.
 
I don't think that they look terribly overweight either, their Welsh D's aren't they?

Why is Meg fully clipped if she's not in work?
 
Thanks for opinions but they do need to shift a bit before the spring grass comes through. To condition score they ARE overweight. No, Meg is a sec D and Kali is an Irish Cob.

Can anyone answer my original question which hasn't been answered yet?!
This morning after double netting Meg and triple netting for Kali both had hay left and were still eating which is good but had clearly eaten all the clean straw from their beds, so will this stop their weight loss? Thanks in advance.
 
Straw still does have some calories so eat enough and they will put on weight, you said you're sensibly monitoring with tape so you'll spot a trend and see if what they are eating is making a difference. If it is, personally, I would cut hay back further. In overseas countries where they can't get hay all they feed is straw and as long as this isn't an overnight change and they are drinking enough colic shouldn't be an issue
 
I changed bedding from straw to pellets as Tartine would eat all of the bed. Now straw doesn't contain many calories, but the amount of digestion it needs creates a lot of gas, and left ler with a huge belly.

So since changing to a pellet bed, and having double netted hay on an evening (loose hay on the floor on a morning before t/o onto mud patch), she has lost 40kg (from 448 to 408 on a tape) and is starting to look like a sport pony rather than a Thelwel pony.
 
Ok, thanks all. Have put them on straw as its free from the yard and nice stuff plus I can't afford to buy bedding at the moment but I'll start saving and put them back on wood pellets asap!
 
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