Shannon Matthews alive

[alleycat]

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I know it cant be nice for the family reading this,

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Then why write it?
What do you think this says about you?

To me it says that under NO circumstances should you be involved in Childrens' services.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

I am not anymore, I got out as I could not stand to see children left time and time again in a situation where they should be removed and the ones that stood a chance with there family being taken away, thankfully things have changed an awful lot now and unfortunately the only time we do hear of ss now is for the bad things that get the media coverage. I personally dont look at class when looking at something like this, you can have a family that live in a high rise, living in poverty and speaking like Vikki Pollard, doesnt mean they dont have an abundance of love in there household, by the same token you can have a rich family, living in a mansion, the child gets everything they want, but not the love they need. I dont believe that class, were you are from, how many Dads your child has come into it, but I do believe that there is more to this than meets the eye. As for the Mccanns, I think the only thing they are guilty of is being naive and neglectful. Thing is with both cases, we will never all agree on what is tthe so called right and wrong way to bring up a child, one persons values and norms are not the same as the next, BUT, we do all no what is right and what is wrong, not the same as what is acceptable socially and what is not.

 

[YorksG]

However, do you believe the rest of the article now you have been informed that they have named the wrong social services department, (I do know the correct one, I used to work for Kirklees and now work in Leeds). You do not say in what capacity you worked in child protection, it would be interesting to know.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

Personally I take what I read in the paper, any paper with a pinch of salt, you always have to read between the lines. I am not sure what I beleive to be honest, I do know though that my instincts if you like told me there is more to this one than meets the eye, from the start.
I used to work in a family centre and I also worked on the 1st contact team many years ago. I then went onto work with drug addicts and homeless people and then went into mental health for a good few years. I am now studying forensic psychology and profiling.

 

[YorksG]

Then surely you would know that speculation in this manner is not something which would normally be seen as ethical?

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

Correct, however, this is an anon to a degree forum that people can discuss things on and as long as there is I, you or anyone else reading this/contributing to this is working on the case and does not have inside info then I do not see why it can not be discussed

 

[polyphonic]

Regardless of reports or news articles.... I like to use my own judgement- Yes having so many children by 5 different fathers doesnt make you a BAD person, but it does show irresponsibilty, lack of control and without many means to look after them a bad mother. I should know...One of 5 who were adopted as my mother was only 22 when she had me...I will say I WAS the youngest. She never was ever good at the baby trap malarky. I do not understand for the sake of peace of mind ANY parent letting there child walk alone from school for a mile. Even to me that is a huge distance. I will say that I thought well before it was mentioned that the family, be it step or not KNEW, and I dont think that the mother wasnt aware. I am sure the police and other genres of social told them to carry on, but to buy loads of beer and have a party either shows she wasnt all too concerned, she knew or it is just the type of mother she is. I dont think the poor girl should be allowed back to that kind of environment- This maybe the break she might of needed to give her a chance in life

 

[itsme123]

I agree with what you say regarding 'class', and that a family with little class and no money can give as much love as anyone yet a family with alot of class and alot of money could as easily totally deprive a child of what it needs most (love).

What a sad situation, and what a mess for all concerned

.

I don't believe all I read in the papers, but am shocked to find the child is still not back with family. Something really must be amiss

.
At the start I thought as any other; that this was an awful thing to happen, a child gets abducted on her way home. When she was found people mocked the community for holding a disco for her, and all i thought was "well, at least they show they care, why should they show their happiness behind closed doors? just because they do things differently doesnt make it wrong or somehow distasteful".

But now I'm inclined to think that yes, something is seriously wrong, but still blown up by the media who are playing with the fact the family come from a rough council estate and the mother has seven children by five fathers.

Plenty of women have seven children by five, six or seven fathers (some by eight or nine as they're not sure who the father is), but they still make decent mothers...

fact is, this is something that could happen in any area within any class or person.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

Flintus,
I think there are many now that have a baby or 10 just because the goverment give them the basics to live on. There are also many who grow up in h-hold where alcohol is the norm and walking to and from school is too. I think the whold beer thing was irresponsible yes and also may of seemed to the outside looking in as arrogant and nonchalent, thing is to them it was probably the norm and to be fair, they were seen with beer, would everyone be up in arms if it was say Mrs Upper class doctor Mccann walking in with a few bottles of red? We are a nation nowadays that is tried and found guilty by the media before we've even got to court. All of that said I think there is more than meets the eye.

 

[itsme123]

it does show a certain lack of control to have that many kids and fathers maybe, but as you said, doesnt make her a bad mum.

However, allowing a child to walk that distance alone, is IMO irrisponsible.

To have loads of beer at that party, I think, is just the sort of thing people in that kind of area do. You know the sort, any excuse for a good knees up. But the sense of community and caring you find in estates like that is often second to none.

 

[itsme123]

[ QUOTE ]
Flintus,
I think there are many now that have a baby or 10 just because the goverment give them the basics to live on. There are also many who grow up in h-hold where alcohol is the norm and walking to and from school is too. I think the whold beer thing was irresponsible yes and also may of seemed to the outside looking in as arrogant and nonchalent, thing is to them it was probably the norm and to be fair, they were seen with beer, would everyone be up in arms if it was say Mrs Upper class doctor Mccann walking in with a few bottles of red? We are a nation nowadays that is tried and found guilty by the media before we've even got to court. All of that said I think there is more than meets the eye.

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well said.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

Also Charlie as you say about that area, a street party would not be out of place, that doesnt make them uncaring or a cr@p parent.
This couple will never beat the media, just like the Mccanns, damned if you do show emotion and damned if you dont.

 

[polyphonic]

McCanns are a diff story and I dont applaud them either.
If you think that I am media- then yes guilty. From what HAS been reported I can make a judgement- Its like saying you know from media about Marilyn Monroe- Suicide, accident or murder.
Shoot me down for this but I think If you live in an area of poverty and have little to no means raising children then you should stop at the one you can comfortably bring up. Coming from a V deprived area to being fostered into a comfortable family made me realise alot more than feckin news reports or media potryal- I have lived it- SO no, she was selfish to bring so many children into this world with little means of support but by us the people of the UK, she was foolish to be shown carrying crates of beer into her house for a party- and she was down right stupid to let her child walk back from school with out any supervision what so ever. Have we not learnt from other families misfotunes, hurt, upset and life shattering experiences. This isnt about what class of people they are, this is classed as the TYPE of people they are. She was wrong- the child suffered. Raise a beer if you like?!

 

[YorksG]

If you have two children at different schools a mile apart and do not drive, which one do you collect, the six year old or the nine year old who is supposed to be walking home with friends from the same street?

 

[polyphonic]

My point being collect BOTH!! One stays at school until you get there or not or how about giving the child money for the bus? If you cant afford for the child to catch the bus I dont think its fair to have anymore children. I have lived on deprived estates and yes its irresponsible not to know who the dad is, on my actual birth certificate its my mothers 1st husband- the truth was he isnt and took me many years to track down- I know im not his, im not half indian like my 3 brothers!! As I said this isnt about class of people but the TYPE of people, and it could of been many wealthy couples who let their child walk home, of which they do...but ;point is...it wasnt.

 

[YorksG]

There is not the option of the bus on this estate unfortunately. I can see that this is a situation which you feel very strongly about because of your own situation, unfortunately people do live in far from perfect circumstances, but it should not necessarily lead to people making assumptions about the mothers "involvement" in the disapearance of this child.

 

[polyphonic]

I think she knew something- I wont say sorry, I am not. I will wait for me to be proved wrong and then I will doubt my judgement. As I said, the McCanns were in the wrong- and just because they taste the same wine my mom does doesnt mean that they were irresponsible parents, they were and have hopefully will not be. This was not about class....me dragged up, slapped about, struggle that children shouldnt know or worry about but I did.... I stick by what I said... I HOPE this could be the chance the girl needed to get out of that situation, not for finicial gain, but for where some one might look after her in a loving caring and overwhelming fashion.

 

[polyphonic]

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No I can assure you that this family would be looked after by Kirklees council, do you believe that this family is more worthy of your oprobium than the McCanns, this child was nine years old and was walking home from junior school as her mother was collecting her younger brother from the infant school a mile away.

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I do think you question wealthy families too much, this isnt about wealth, but charachter and the McCanns and the Matthews' are in the same league

 

[itsme123]

I can see your point, and think you are more qualified than most to speak, having been through so much yourself (and may i add, proof that not all kids who land up under social services books are bad apples) but I think the McCann's and the Matthews' situations are entirely different.

In situation one we have a family who had wealth and education who left a three small children in a holiday apartment. They could have afforded a babysitter, they KNEW the risks. They took the risk and paid the highest price possible.

situation two we have a family from a deprived area. Chances are the parents havent alot of money and probably not too well educated. They allowed their 9 year old child to walk a mile home in an area she knew and with friends.


Once a week i have to catch a bus which leaves five minutes before my child's school bus (from the same stop). I pay a childminder to wait with my child(who is a year younger than Shannon) for those five minutes.
My child does not walk anywhere outside our front gate alone.

The matthews family may not have been able to afford to pay someone to collect the child.

I can see both sides of the coin, but you are right, people should not have kids they cannot afford to care for properly.

I do not profess to be higher morally or anything, I was once a single parent on benefits myself, but is was hard and no way would i have brought a second or third child into that situation.

 

[polyphonic]

I have read your post and sat back in deep thought- Hat goes off to you! But maybe if my mom had stopped at the 2nd child then the children wouldnt of been deprived on what should be theirs. I was lucky enough to be no millionaires row child or wood end coventry- have a look people- lot more deprived than shannon BUT Its about parenting- judgment on the next child. I think Shannon could now have a better shot at life, sickening thing is it could be down to the mother. There does not seem to be a want to change her life. Its equally sad that Shannon might have to go back

 

[alleycat]

bettyboop- what really got to me about your post is that you claimed to be in some way a professional; and the first rule of professionalism in such a profession should surely be not to cause further harm to your possibly already damaged client; and by your own admission you seemed to be ignoring that rule. But I can see from your replies that you maybe didn't mean it that way, so I'm sorry if I over-reacted.

I'm amazed, though, that people really feel its irresponsible to let a nine year old walk a mile home from school. Those who think this- do you have kids yourselves- and if so do you honestly shadow them everywhere they go? Remember that when the schools come out there are loads of kids on the street; its daylight, other adults and possibly staff are about, and a nine year old would already be aware that she shouldn't go off with anyone. The risks, under those circumstances, are actually very low.

At my daughter's primary school, (moderately posh area; I was a bit better off at that time) I can only think of one parent who deliberately brought her child to school by car; and this was because she lived down a busy lane (farm lorries, no pavements). In a less rural area (we were in a village bypassed by a major road) a child would have been even safer, as a passing car couldn't swoop through, scoop up a child & make a fast getaway. I totally refute any suggestion that allowing a 9 year old to walk a mile home from school, through a residential area at 3.30 or thereabouts is irresponsible. Far from it- its normal!

 

[polyphonic]

Quote: remember that when the schools come out there are loads of kids on the street; its daylight, other adults and possibly staff are about


Yep. Dont have kids nor children BUT the above isnt really airing on the side of caution, as in, Shannon was taken when the schools come out, there are loads of kids on the street, its daylight, other adults and possibly staff are about.

Is it not irresonsible to let a nine year old walk home? I was not allowed to walk home from school until it was legal for me to stay at home on my own, Cant remember what age, 12/13 but it was not nine.
In Nether Whitacre- 2 girls who all made the news, were spoken to by someone who wanted for them to get in the car, needless to say, their parents waited for them to get on the bus and school teachers made them get on the bus without a parent being there, LESS than a mile from my home- rural safe? safer than city culture possible- albeit not much safer, right?

It may be normal by YOUR standards, for what I grew up with, THOSE normal standards, it was IRRESONSIBLE not to.
I am happy that you are comfortable with this.

I do belive it really would be (and heaven and heart forbid) that this was your child, there might be a different choon piping from that chord,
One question...why risk it?

 

[alleycat]

Why take the risk? Because it is normally a minimal risk! Of course, it depends where & when; I wouldn't (as my neighbour did) allow my daughter to go into school at half past eight, and play in an empty playground until it filled up at about 8.45; it was a bit too early, a bit too empty. I had to leave early for work, and took my daughter to a child minder for 45 minutes or so before school- she then walked in from there, returning to the childminder after school, at first with a friend and her parent; then with a group of children. She had to go about half a mile.

I said that only one parent brought her child in by car; this was within the village, of course. Kids did come in from the outlying farms and cottages, and they came on the school bus. Children had a right to a place on the school bus when they lived outwith walking distance; that distance, decided by the council, was set, I think, at TWO MILES- may have been two and a half. (Even with adult supervision this journey would have been dangerous; you had to cross the main road. In fact, there were enough places on the bus for everyone living over the road to get on.)

I think this suggests, though, that the local authority saw children walking considerable distances to school as normal and acceptable. Whether they were accompanied by adults or not was always left to the judgement of the adults; we tended to go with them for the first couple of years, then they would start to go in in the company of other children and there was never a problem.

Had anything happened to my daughter, I don't think I'd be blaming myself in this instance, except in the way one always wishes to put the clock back and do something different; but I do feel there was nothing intrinsically wrong with the arrangements made for her journey to and from school; and I wouldn't be so hypocritical as to blame Shannon's mother for doing what I did and what (to judge by the number of children on the streets in the morning) a large percentage of other parents do also, dependant more upon where they live in relation to the school than upon wealth or social class.
As for why take the risk; there was- and is normallynext to no risk, at these times of day. Thousands upon thousands of kids make this sort of journey safely every day. What risk there is comes generally from parents who DO take their kids to school- by car, and are in a hurry to go on to work, and don't care who they drive over to get there.

Every parent draws their boundaries between what is safe & what is dangerous little bit differently, and some parents are quite happy to do things that leave me cold, whilst I probably crossed the boundaries for others; not everyone likes pets, for example, and we always had pets. Other things are accepted but undeniably risky; e.g. letting your kids ride ponies. However, if opinion is really swinging any further in the direction of safety at all costs, then I think it may be a negative step, and we will have kids who really cannot cope when they become adults because they have never had a chance to grow up.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

Alleycat, no problem, I sound like a pompous tw@t at the best of times.
There is no ideal answer in this case, one mans meat as they say is another mans poison.
There are obviously people on here that have had experiences of all different kinds and that in itself makes them qualified enough to comment.

Flintus, I have said all along and I will stand by that now, the mother knows more than she is letting on.

 

[alleycat]

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Alleycat, no problem, I sound like a pompous tw@t at the best of times.

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No no no, that's MY role

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

Thats ok then, we can be pompous 2gether, I do try not to though.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
I totally refute any suggestion that allowing a 9 year old to walk a mile home from school, through a residential area at 3.30 or thereabouts is irresponsible. Far from it- its normal!

[/ QUOTE ] I must say that I agree, assuming that they walk with friends. I'm less happy that the mother didn't become concerned until 6.45pm because Shannon frequently didn't come straight home, but I think lots of good parents would be happy for their 9 year old to walk home from school with friends through a residential area.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I totally refute any suggestion that allowing a 9 year old to walk a mile home from school, through a residential area at 3.30 or thereabouts is irresponsible. Far from it- its normal!

[/ QUOTE ] I must say that I agree, assuming that they walk with friends. I'm less happy that the mother didn't become concerned until 6.45pm because Shannon frequently didn't come straight home, but I think lots of good parents would be happy for their 9 year old to walk home from school with friends through a residential area.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that it is acceptable to allow a 9 year old to walk home from school with her friends through a residential area. That said it is actually no different nowaday to 50 years ago. There were paedos around then to, we just didnt have the huge media frenzy then and most of it was covered up and the victim thrown into an institutition! I used to walk 4 miles to and from school daily and that was when I was 11!

 

[irishdraught]

I was a latch key kid when I was at primary school. I used to walk home with friends

and that was far less than 50 years ago. I used to jump on the Metro at Gateshead - where I lived at the time with a friend and take our dogs to Whitley Bay. That would just be unheard of now.

It didn't make my parents bad people and I wasn't neglected. I have grown up to be educated and work full time.

I think we are quick to judge and I agree, something isn't right but as bettyboop has said "there were paedos around then" but we were probably more ignorant to it.