Shannon Matthews

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Terrible these common people. It would be different if they were professionals. Let's say .... oooh .... Doctors for example. Then we'd all feel terribly sorry for them, I'm sure.

Personally I am beginning to think this whole story is a media experiment to prove just how different your reception is if you lose a child from a rough area instead of a posh resort.
 
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I wish it was! But I agree it has pointed up the different reactions hasn't it?

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Of course it has, it weedles out those that think this family are scumbags and that is the reason it happened and those that are of the more lateral thinking and realise that this could happen to anyone from any walk of life.
 
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Of course it has, it weedles out those that think this family are scumbags

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Which family are we talking about?

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the matthews family.

the general feeling seems to be that they are scum because they live on a council estate, drink lager and the mother was (apparently) on benefits.
 
As someone who works with adult survivors of childhood abuse, I do wish that people would realise that the income bracket of the family is no guard against abuse, merely that the higher the income the less likely is the child to be protected by society.
 
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Of course it has, it weedles out those that think this family are scumbags

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Which family are we talking about?

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the matthews family.

the general feeling seems to be that they are scum because they live on a council estate, drink lager and the mother was (apparently) on benefits.

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The general consensus Charlie seems to be that seeing as they live on a council estate and drink beer that they are scum!
Well I dont think that they portray themselves well, but hey they are what they are and all gold stars to them for not pretending to be anyone else.
 
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As someone who works with adult survivors of childhood abuse, I do wish that people would realise that the income bracket of the family is no guard against abuse, merely that the higher the income the less likely is the child to be protected by society.

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Well said, I have said this time and time again and no one seems to believe me. It is this type for want of a better word of family that come to the attention of ss and that are picked up and dealth with, usually. If anyone can read the book by Shy Keenan I think it is, it is fab, I read it in one day and it turned my head in so many directions, I was at one point physically sick, but couldnt stop reading it!
 
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Well these non workin types with loads of kids with different non paying dads must have some intelligence, they always manage to know what benefit to claim and where to claim it from.

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That is so not helpful. There are many people that are on benefits that are highly intelligent, just caught in a trap! If you are living in a rented property for instance that is £895 per month, as most houses are in my area and that is cheap round here, then you have your council tax on top, then gas, electric, water, tv licence etc. On top of all of that if you are a single parent going to work you have childcare costs, you have school uniform, school trips, new shoes etc and then christmas and easter which are a nightmare time for any single parent, I have been there. What job pays you enough to cover all of those things and still have money left at the end of the month for incidentals? Even with tax credits paying the majority of the childcare it is still an impossible situation. My friend is a single mum, she came off of benefit and started to work from 5 in the morning til 9 in a supermarket, she came off of benefit and she is now £350 per month worse off. She has now had to stop working and go back onto single parent benefit, that way she can keep the roof over her head. It is a sad situation to be in but it is a fact of life.

That said the estate where Shannon lived is well known, most on there do not work and there is a high crime level there, I think that at best her mother, I wont say Mum, is guilty of being naive and not making very good choices when it comes to men. I also think that I, well I know that I would not at her age of gone with someone that age and expected them to of been capable of looking after my children, I doubt that the man is capable of looking after himself. I also think that it will come out at some point that both the mother and s-f were abused when they were children.

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Of course the answer to getting out of this poverty trap is to keep opening your legs to different blokes and keep blobbing kids out for the rest of us to pay for, yea that is so NOT helpful.
 
my thoughts exactly.

A friend popped round this evening, he was off for a drink with friends. He lives on benefits and lives in a council flat.


We had a lovely long discussion about teamchasing last week, about the races, and about the hunt. His whole family hunts...

I'm sure if he could work he would, but for the fact he is terminally ill. Tonight he will go out and get lashed and good luck to him, why shouldnt he?
 
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Well these non workin types with loads of kids with different non paying dads must have some intelligence, they always manage to know what benefit to claim and where to claim it from.

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That is so not helpful. There are many people that are on benefits that are highly intelligent, just caught in a trap! If you are living in a rented property for instance that is £895 per month, as most houses are in my area and that is cheap round here, then you have your council tax on top, then gas, electric, water, tv licence etc. On top of all of that if you are a single parent going to work you have childcare costs, you have school uniform, school trips, new shoes etc and then christmas and easter which are a nightmare time for any single parent, I have been there. What job pays you enough to cover all of those things and still have money left at the end of the month for incidentals? Even with tax credits paying the majority of the childcare it is still an impossible situation. My friend is a single mum, she came off of benefit and started to work from 5 in the morning til 9 in a supermarket, she came off of benefit and she is now £350 per month worse off. She has now had to stop working and go back onto single parent benefit, that way she can keep the roof over her head. It is a sad situation to be in but it is a fact of life.

That said the estate where Shannon lived is well known, most on there do not work and there is a high crime level there, I think that at best her mother, I wont say Mum, is guilty of being naive and not making very good choices when it comes to men. I also think that I, well I know that I would not at her age of gone with someone that age and expected them to of been capable of looking after my children, I doubt that the man is capable of looking after himself. I also think that it will come out at some point that both the mother and s-f were abused when they were children.

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Of course the answer to getting out of this poverty trap is to keep opening your legs to different blokes and keep blobbing kids out for the rest of us to pay for, yea that is so NOT helpful.

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Of course it isnt, but for some that is all they know, they have grown up seeing parents doing it so why not them, that is life to them, which is where people like me and other professionals come in and do a bit of cognitive work with them, trying to change the thinking patterns and hopefully break the whole cycle
 
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my thoughts exactly.

A friend popped round this evening, he was off for a drink with friends. He lives on benefits and lives in a council flat.


We had a lovely long discussion about teamchasing last week, about the races, and about the hunt. His whole family hunts...

I'm sure if he could work he would, but for the fact he is terminally ill. Tonight he will go out and get lashed and good luck to him, why shouldnt he?

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Good for him, I am quite happy for my taxes to pay for that thanks, if he is terminally ill then all respect to him for living his days like it is his last one. I'll tip my vodka lemonade to him right now
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Well these non workin types with loads of kids with different non paying dads must have some intelligence, they always manage to know what benefit to claim and where to claim it from.

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That is so not helpful. There are many people that are on benefits that are highly intelligent, just caught in a trap! If you are living in a rented property for instance that is £895 per month, as most houses are in my area and that is cheap round here, then you have your council tax on top, then gas, electric, water, tv licence etc. On top of all of that if you are a single parent going to work you have childcare costs, you have school uniform, school trips, new shoes etc and then christmas and easter which are a nightmare time for any single parent, I have been there. What job pays you enough to cover all of those things and still have money left at the end of the month for incidentals? Even with tax credits paying the majority of the childcare it is still an impossible situation. My friend is a single mum, she came off of benefit and started to work from 5 in the morning til 9 in a supermarket, she came off of benefit and she is now £350 per month worse off. She has now had to stop working and go back onto single parent benefit, that way she can keep the roof over her head. It is a sad situation to be in but it is a fact of life.

That said the estate where Shannon lived is well known, most on there do not work and there is a high crime level there, I think that at best her mother, I wont say Mum, is guilty of being naive and not making very good choices when it comes to men. I also think that I, well I know that I would not at her age of gone with someone that age and expected them to of been capable of looking after my children, I doubt that the man is capable of looking after himself. I also think that it will come out at some point that both the mother and s-f were abused when they were children.

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Of course the answer to getting out of this poverty trap is to keep opening your legs to different blokes and keep blobbing kids out for the rest of us to pay for, yea that is so NOT helpful.

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Of course it isnt, but for some that is all they know, they have grown up seeing parents doing it so why not them, that is life to them, which is where people like me and other professionals come in and do a bit of cognitive work with them, trying to change the thinking patterns and hopefully break the whole cycle

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also in areas like this, work is hard to come by. Education levels tend to be low, and as you say, it is a way of life.


I'd rather pay my taxes for single mums to pop out on average two kids each (before they realise kids are work in themselves) than pay for asylum seekers and diddies.
 
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my thoughts exactly.

A friend popped round this evening, he was off for a drink with friends. He lives on benefits and lives in a council flat.


We had a lovely long discussion about teamchasing last week, about the races, and about the hunt. His whole family hunts...

I'm sure if he could work he would, but for the fact he is terminally ill. Tonight he will go out and get lashed and good luck to him, why shouldnt he?

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Good for him, I am quite happy for my taxes to pay for that thanks, if he is terminally ill then all respect to him for living his days like it is his last one. I'll tip my vodka lemonade to him right now
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even if I told you he'll most likely end up in a brawl? LOL.

But then thousands of supposed 'well off' public school boys (rugby types) go out each weekend and do the same, so I don't imagine it's just down to upbringing or financial status. Difference being the posh boys drink Stella or Bud, and the benefits types drink whatevers cheapest..
 
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my thoughts exactly.

A friend popped round this evening, he was off for a drink with friends. He lives on benefits and lives in a council flat.


We had a lovely long discussion about teamchasing last week, about the races, and about the hunt. His whole family hunts...

I'm sure if he could work he would, but for the fact he is terminally ill. Tonight he will go out and get lashed and good luck to him, why shouldnt he?

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Because tax payers have not said how many pints he can have?
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I am a carer so am well used to that sort of shite.
Yep,that means I choose to be on benifits to look after someone I love who is very sick-wish I could afford a riding lesson once in a blue moon and diddnt have to watch the person I care for go to hell and back every damn day then have to proove they are sick to pay the bills
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When the hell did this thread stop being about a little girl and become yet another bitch at people who are not the same as "the great and the good" of HHO???
 
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And it's such an ignorant attitude to assume every person has access to a job which pays enough to keep a family. Some people simply are financially better off on benefits. That is not always the fault of the individual / family, that is the fault of the goverment.

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How is it the fault of the Govt that people can be better off on benefits? They don't control what private sector employers pay their staff. Or are you suggesting the benefits the Govt pay are too high, so they discourage people from getting a job?
 
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And it's such an ignorant attitude to assume every person has access to a job which pays enough to keep a family. Some people simply are financially better off on benefits. That is not always the fault of the individual / family, that is the fault of the goverment.

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How is it the fault of the Govt that people can be better off on benefits? They don't control what private sector employers pay their staff. Or are you suggesting the benefits the Govt pay are too high, so they discourage people from getting a job?

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for a single mother to go to work she has to find childcare.

This entails a deposit on a nursery place (about £500). YES the goverment help with childcare costs (after the child has been in childcare for a month), but where is a single mum going to get £500 from?

I am saying the cost of living, of council taxes, of childcare etc far outweighs what a family on a single wage could live on. Most families struggle with TWO incomes to keep their head above water, so how is a single parent family meant to cope?

Is the answer a higher minimum wage? No. The answer is the Goverment actually putting their brains into gear and making sure single parents get help every step of the way into going back to work. As it is, many stumble at the first block (finding the deposit for childcare).
 
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And it's such an ignorant attitude to assume every person has access to a job which pays enough to keep a family. Some people simply are financially better off on benefits. That is not always the fault of the individual / family, that is the fault of the goverment.

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How is it the fault of the Govt that people can be better off on benefits? They don't control what private sector employers pay their staff. Or are you suggesting the benefits the Govt pay are too high, so they discourage people from getting a job?

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for a single mother to go to work she has to find childcare.

This entails a deposit on a nursery place (about £500). YES the goverment help with childcare costs (after the child has been in childcare for a month), but where is a single mum going to get £500 from?

I am saying the cost of living, of council taxes, of childcare etc far outweighs what a family on a single wage could live on. Most families struggle with TWO incomes to keep their head above water, so how is a single parent family meant to cope?

Is the answer a higher minimum wage? No. The answer is the Goverment actually putting their brains into gear and making sure single parents get help every step of the way into going back to work. As it is, many stumble at the first block (finding the deposit for childcare).

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The goverment pay the rent, prescriptions, council tax and a proportion of child care so they effectively keep these people at home, there is not a job I know of that will pay for the childcare fees, petrol, rent/mortage and all the other things that go with living a life and leave you some over.

Most live an existence, feeding the cheapest food, holes in shoes, still happens I have seen it. The stigma of free school meals, seen that too.
 
I just hope that Shannon is okay and not too damaged physically or mentally by whatever went on whilst she was missing.
 
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I'd rather pay my taxes for single mums to pop out on average two kids each (before they realise kids are work in themselves) than pay for asylum seekers and diddies.

[/ QUOTE ] I think that is a disgusting comment.
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Of course there will be some who affect to be asylum seekers when they are in fact economic migrants, but do you actually know what a true asylum seeker is? From your comment - either you don't or you are a particularly unfeeling person!

They are very often people who have been tortured in their country of origin, often after simply expressing an independant opinion (or even just being suspected of having one). They then cobble together a little money to pay 'some guy' to smuggle them out of the country. Often they don't know where in the world they are when they arive in the UK. They are scarred physically and mentally, confused and afraid and desparately hoping that there are people where they have arrived who have enough humanity to help them
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A great many British subjects are desendant form other cultures (Irish, Spanish, Italian, Polish etc). They are as British as you or I (my father was Irish as it happens) because over time, their parents, grandparents - whatever, integrated into British culture, adopted it as their own and influenced it too. People from other lands enrich our culture. e.g. we have some of the best Indian food in the world here!

Maybe you could consider looking into this issue a little more before coming out with such sweeping statements
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Single parents often struggle, are stigmatised and most don't want to be in the situation they're in. But often they have no way of making life better for their children. Why should they be punished for that?

I am sorry if my post came across as harsh, but IMO only the same as some of the frankly ignorant attitudes shown towards single parents and people living on benefits on this thread
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Single parents often struggle, are stigmatised and most don't want to be in the situation they're in. But often they have no way of making life better for their children. Why should they be punished for that?

I am sorry if my post came across as harsh, but IMO only the same as some of the frankly ignorant attitudes shown towards single parents and people living on benefits on this thread:(

[/ QUOTE ] Thats just irrelevant. I haven't said a thing about British people living on benefit. I am choosing not to share my view on that! My response was entirely focused on your nasty comment about asylum seekers. Its not how you 'came across', its what you specifically said
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It's a nasty comment in your eyes, not mine, I'm not sure if you expect me to apologise for a personal thought?

My reply was to what i felt to be a string of ignorant comments regarding the subject being discussed, so to say the original subject is irrelevant kind of defeats the object of the 'conversation' doesnt it?
 
Not at all, I respect your right to hold any opinion. I was just expressing mine in reply. After all we live in a democracy - unlike true asylum seekers.
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Doesn't matter how many ways you look at it, a lot of people work very hard and get stung over and over in tax which pay for policeing NHS ambulance and fire services bin men social services ect ect ect who also work very hard in their jobs, while a lot of people sit back using all these services just blobbing out more kids they cant afford, plus now we import more to pay for and look after as well, if we go over to another country to sort out their problems we are "interfering" if we dont we are "uncaring" since when did we decide to be the international health service, in one breath we are treating immigrants kids in hospital "because it's free"and the next telling some woman who was born bred worked all her life here that she has to sell her house to fund her own breast cancer treatment, that is the cold light of day of how this country works and no amount of emotive posturing will alter it.
 
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There is no such thing as a single mother.
It does indeed take two to tango.
There is now genetic testing, and fathers should be forced to pay every last penny for every child they sire.
If they do not have a job which they find comfy and convenient they should be found one, where ever there is something unpleasant and/or cold and/or repetitive and/or back breaking and preferably all of the above that needs doing.
Mothers being forced back out to work is what leaves the kids on the streets perpetuating the circle. Mothers should be supported in getting a part time job, but only if they demonstrate good parenting the rest of the time.
Fathers who refuse work could of course 'volunteer' to take part in an exchange programme, taking the place in some godforsaken hole of one genuine assylum seeker who will likely work his backside off to make a life here, pay taxes, and look after his own children.
 
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At the end of the day people shouldnt have children if they cant afford to look after them.

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It is not always that simple though is it? I was a qualified nurse when I had my first daughter, by the time I had my 2nd, 2 years later I was into my mental health training and living with there dad who was an alcoholic that beat the [****] out of me on a daily basis.
By the time my youngest was 2 I left him, he beat me so badly one night I could barely walk, so I stabbed him in the arm, picked up my children and fled to Greece for 3 years.
I came back, I was arrested and remanded in custody. Since then and that was 10 years ago nearly, I have turned my life around, BUT, I was on benefits and living in a hostel with both of my children. I had offers from men, didnt take them up though, my children were then and are now my priority in life. I refused to live on a council estate round here with them, so I borrowed the money to put down as a deposit on a rented house, dince then we have moved round in and out of different rented accomodation and I am now with someone for 4 years. I have worked in child protection since then, I have had to prove myself due to the girls dad, I was the guilty one not him as I retalitated. Now I am studying for a degree in forensic psychology and crimininology and profiling. I do youth offending work and I have 2 lovely daughters and 2 beautiful horses.
My whole point to this is that life is not only what you make it it is also what you are given. You can choose what you do and dont do in life and along the way you bmore often then not make some wrong choices. Shannons mother, albeit naive and dim it seems at times has made many wrong choices, obviously, but she is the way she is, look at her and where she lives. Luckily I was brought up in a family that knew the difference between right and wrong and I was supported throughout everything I did as a child and now as an adult. We are all aware that the s-f is a [****], maybe with counselling and support Shannons mum can learn to love her children how they should be loved and fufill there lives. If she was or has never been loved herself then she can not love her chldren.

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and the point of you divulging this is??

we all have gone through some trauma or other...god if i posted why i was single parent on benefits and the ins and outs of it, it would take at least 45 mins to write out....
 
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Single parents often struggle, are stigmatised and most don't want to be in the situation they're in. But often they have no way of making life better for their children. Why should they be punished for that?

I am sorry if my post came across as harsh, but IMO only the same as some of the frankly ignorant attitudes shown towards single parents and people living on benefits on this thread:(

[/ QUOTE ] Thats just irrelevant. I haven't said a thing about British people living on benefit. I am choosing not to share my view on that! My response was entirely focused on your nasty comment about asylum seekers. Its not how you 'came across', its what you specifically said
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if you read my first reply, i got off my sorry ass, decided NOBODY owed me a living...

it IS possible to come off Benefits...
BUT you have to be prepared to have a drop in income..

which a lot of these lazy ass-wipes aren't prepared to do.

they'd rather, and i'm sorry charlie, but benefit scroungers admit it themselves.. stay at home, paid for by tax payers, drink beer, paid for by tax payers, watch jeremy kyle on plasma screens, paid for by tax payers, surf the net on computers paid for by tax payers....

i think tere may be a pattern here...

i personally would like to see the current system amended...whereby ANYONE on full benefit, and unfortuneatly unemployed "single-mums" come into this, are given there benefit AS A WHOLE.....by that i suggest instead of rent, council tax paid for at source, the money is paid in a lump sum, THEN hey have to pay the rent, council tax, electricity, gas, water, food out of say...lets pluck a round sum....£400 per week....and if they can't budget..tough...people in the real world need/have to....

i'm sure quite a few o these "scroungers" would soon get a job..
 
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