share arrangements

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lizstuguinness

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At the momenet i dont have time for my mare.

she is a 17hh warmblood 5yrs old, excellent olympic bloodlines.

i am looking for someone to share her with me. i dont want to sell her or loan her as i want to ride and care for her when i can.

ideally im lookig for someone who has experinace at bsja and/or BE to be able to compete her.

i have never shared before so was wondering what agreements i wil need in place and what is a reasonable amount to ask for?
I was thinking £135 p/m? with set days/hours allocated set out in the agreement.
i dont want to have the sharer around when i ride, and visa versa.
i will also stated that no-one other than the sharer is allowed to ride/care for her, is this resaonalbe? she is not a riding schollm pony and i dont want her treated as such.

also where should i advertise?
 
I think what you have mentioned is perfectly reasonable and is certainly the sort of thing I would consider (provided I was allowed to compete etc).

The one thing I would say is that given the horses age and type you will obviously need a rider of a certain calibre. This rider will be investing time, experience and money into essentially somebody elses horse which could, theoretically, be taken from underneath them at a moments notice. The owner might decide to sell in which case the sharer looses out, the owner might see the horse progressing and getting good comp results and decide she wants the horse back for themselves!

I found myself in the first position last year having taken on a horse that had done not a lot for 5 years and then really doing well with it at dressage, I had put quite a bit of money into it and the owner then saw £ signs and decided to sell. Thankfully for me she was a lovely genuine lady and gave me a very fair cut of the sale. It might have been a different story though.

Just something to bear in mind when advertising for a sharer, the good people may have the above concerns.
 
I think you may be comming at this from the wrong angle. Essentially you are looking for someone to help you out - should they pay for the privelidge? And why wouldn't you want them around when you are riding and visa versa? It can be great fun sharing a horse with another - and doesn't have to be separate.

In your shoes I would be advertising for some help - and ask for a contribution to shoeing and feeding only. Have an agreement if you feel it's necessary (I wouldn't) - but I wouldn't make it too prescriptive. You need to have some flexibility and to be flexible.
 
I find this intresesting. I have had a sharer on and off for the last few years to help me keep Ed fit as I work five days a week and have two kids so find it hard to do all the riding myself. I have never asked for a contribution as i feel as soon as you do this the sharer would and should have some say in what the horse is doing. However at the end of this season Ed will be retiring from novice eventing. So I am looking for someone who would like to gain experience on a well schooled horse. The sharer would be allowed to compete at lower levels ie intro or pre novice and I would like to be able to ride a couple of times a week. I have considered loaning him but have owned him for the last 14 years and would find it hard to allow someone fall control over my horse. Would you still consider it unexceptable to ask for £130 a month for upkeep?
 
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Would you still consider it unexceptable to ask for £130 a month for upkeep?

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Yep. It's loaning with strings.......
 
I would disagree, provided the horse won't be sold out from underneath the sharer.

To buy a nice PN schoolmaster you would be looking to spend at least 6K if not more. Basic upkeep of a competition horse would be at least £300 a month on a reasonable quality DIY yard.

So for someone to have the oppertunity to gain valuable experience on a competition schoolmaster for £130 a month inclusive, plus obviously lessons and comp entries I think they would have a good deal. At the end of the day they would have to accept the strings attached, but they would also be able to hand back an injured horse at a minutes notice without long term veterinary attention - that is the attached string for the owner!
 
I can see what you mean but I think the right person would be getting a lot for their money. They would get to compete on a horse who has evented up to intermediate, I would not restrict how and when they compete other than the level. And in the end when they have gained some eperience on a competent horse they can hand him back to me. I feel in this case both parties get something from the deal.
 
the thing is why should they be able to have full competing and riding rights of my horse without paying, or contributing? if she was competed she would require differnt shoeing, different feed, more suppliments. the cost of care increases with the maount of work the horse is doing.

she has olympic breeding and is perfectly capable of at least 1.30m. it could be a great oppertunaty for a rider to have a great horse with the cost of buying her. i recently posted pictures and details as was concidering selling and the average price came back at 9k. id say around 7k realisticaly

Yes i would sell her if the right offer came along, but woud always buy another of similar caliber. but as someone else has stated if she goes lame they can walk away with no hassle. i dont think £135 p/m is much to ask for as this would be it.

i woud pay all vet/insurance bills
 
What has the horse done already? Is this is an opportunityfor someone or just someone to school her and bring her on. In my experience someone genuinely capable of bringing on a 5 year old to affiliated level would expect to be paid to ride, not pay you! However you may be luckily and find someone perhaps coming back to horses after a break or a young rider with abiltity but little experience looking to enhance their CV but I think you would be very lucky to find an experience rider at affiliated who would be happy to pay more than a notional amount towards keep if anything.
 
eddy16, your horse is totally different and is a proven schoolmaster, offering the chance to someone, this IMHO is totally different from bringing on a 5 year old with potential and in your case I think you will have no trouble finding anyone.
 
£135 sounds a bit steep to me, but if you want to share out your horse then the best of luck to you. You need a share agreement (what the sharer is allowed to do, any conditions of the share, etc), and you need to ensure the sharer is reputable (all contact details, address, etc, meet up at the sharer's house to ensure the address is real - there was a post on another forum about a sharer who took her share horse out for a hack for the first time and never came back. The address was fake, so couldn't find the sharer - her horse was gone for good).

From my experience, shares rarely work out - with so many dodgy sharers about and so many dodgy owners about (I won't go into detail), it is just asking for trouble 90% of the time. I would never share my horse out (unless maybe to a best friend) and would never share someone else's horse myself. Just not worth it.
 
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the thing is why should they be able to have full competing and riding rights of my horse without paying, or contributing?

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So in essence you are talking about leasing the horse - or half the horse. That is a different ball game. And to my mind is not what a sharer is.
 
To my mind they are like this:

Sharer - helping owner by exercising horse, stable duties etc. If it suits both parties they can compete the horse or the like. You would pay for comp entries etc. and make a contribution to shoeing (if that was what was agreed) and possibly some feed.

Loan - Horse is treated as theirs, and they pay for everything.

Lease - the rider pays for the privalidege of riding and competing the horse. You either set a figure to take in to account the cost of feeding and keeping it, or there is a financial agreement for contribution.

This is my view, and obviously people differ.
 
See I think of a lease as something completely different.

My definition of a lease would be that the person who leases a horse not only has entire control of the horse, they pay all upkeep plus they pay a figure to the owners of the horse ontop.
This is what happens with a lot of decent competition horses, especially team ponies etc.

The 2 examples given on this thread are completely different IMO

Eddy16 situation perfectly reasonable

The other one, the 5yo, not so reasonable and given that the owner has just said that they would sell the horse if the right offer came along then IMO no one with an ounce of sense would be paying to ride this horse.
 
Yes, I take your point about the leasing - and was going to say that as in 'either', 'or'(but thought I might get a little long winded and waffle).
 
I agree to my mind if it is a lease agreement you need to pay the owner for the use of the horse and on top you would pay for the upkeep for the horse. For example there are two horses advertised for lease in the back of the Eventing magazine this month.
 
I say £130 because the horse is currently on full livery and that would be half the cost of the livery. This would not include any contribution towards his shoeing etc. I would not move him as he can a real pain to settle somewhere new. I am propable expecting to much of someone to except this but I think he would be great at showing someone the ropes and I think he is well worth £130 a month. But then I would.
smile.gif
 
I' in the process of taking on a share for £135 a month. I get two days a week to ride, there is a good school and hacking and the horse is a decent warmblood allrounder. The owner has said i can compete, although we don't have transport so i would have to fit in with others or do low key shows run at the yard.

Does this seem a lot then? I have not promised anything yet, so am open to opinions...
 
It's a tricky one, isn't it, because actually what you're after is someone to help you with your horse as you don't have time to bring it on yourself, and normally you would be paying someone to do this for you!

I would say you would be lucky to find someone with enough BSJA/BE experience who is willing to pay for the privilege of riding a green horse. Perhaps someone might come along who has given up for kids or something, and would like a nice horse to compete but doesn't want the expense and commitment of their own.

I think it is different if you were offering a proven schoolmaster to share - now that is a privelege!

I've never really understood the sharer thing either - someone is doing you a favour by riding your horse and mucking it out three times a week, and they pay you! Seems all wrong to me, but some people seem happy with it!
 
Yeah i would def say don't go near sharing a green/unfit horse. Not all the time, but sometimes and this has happened to me, the owner will let you fitten the horse up, build up a bond with the horse, then they have you right where they want you to be able to put it up for sale.

Of course you'll have first refusal. Guess you know what i'm getting at!!

Doesn't happen all the time though - i have had some great shares and it's a way you can ride a decent horse when you have limited sources of time and cash. Sometimes it works well.
 
Yeah. I am a little pissed off because the previous sharer is still about and she is currently riding on a Sunday - not doing much because she's pregnant - but that is a day i pay for. I'm assuming the horse gets ridden twice and the owner gets paid twice. It's bugging me, but the woman is lovely and i feel bads if i confront her about it!!

How could i phrase the situation to her?
 
It sounds to me that she is trying to be fair to her old sharer as she is still pregnant and wants to ride. Unfortunately it is not at all fair to you as you are paying a lot of money to ride a horse twice a week. I think you really need to voice you concerns to the owner and if she is unhappy I would be inclined to look elsewhere. I did not charge the girl who rode Ed last year at all and she still competed him a few times in thanks for all her work. If you are paying to share you should have more of a guarentee as to when you can compete and what you can do with him during the season.
 
She is trying to be considerate and she's a nice woman. I just think it's a bit cheeky to be having two people to ride the horse at once.

I've been very 'easy' with other parts of our contract, but one thing i explicitly said was that i didn't want to be one of two sharers. I also said that i wanted to do more than just mooching around on him - i really wanted to ride - have lessons, go to shows, go x-country schooling, go to jumping clinics and i just think that the agreement benefits her more than me and the horse (more importantly). He's a really nice horse and i am of the opinion that horses are best ridden by one or two people and having familiarity as part of their day. I've seen some mierable and lost looking horses who have three or four people riding them and it's just a personal preference. I did, however, state this.
 
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