Share, ride and enjoy MY horse for free...

Queenbee

Queenbee

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Sparked from the 'pay to ride my horse' thread - lets look at this another way. How about if I advertised my horse like this

'Ride, share and enjoy my horse - the one I paid for and continue to pay for for absolutely nothing, if it gets ill, needs treatment, needs food, shoeing, bedding, dentistry, back done, new tack, rugs etc... don't worry, I will be paying - because its my horse... you can just do all the fun stuff, with no responsibility, no obligation because you don't want to own a horse and have all that - you just want the fun part...'

doesn't really work for me.

There will always be all types of horses up for share/loan, some will be green, some will need a rider that is willing to 'school' or help with training. That does not necessarily mean that the owner is looking for someone to train their horse, just someone who will ride it sympathetically, with the experience and knowledge that to ride a green horse means you are teaching it at the same time as riding. Shock horror, there are also those sharers out there, that want to share such horses - to participate in bringing on a horse for their own pleasure, they don't want a horse for themselves or are not in a position to have one, but they get great enjoyment out of riding such a horse.

There is a difference between wanting your horse 'trained' and wanting someone as a sharer who is appropriate for a green horse. Yes there are some seriously cheeky adverts looking for someone to put in all the work for the owner, but there are some cheeky potential 'sharers' out there who want to ride someone elses pride and joy without any contribution towards keep or even shoes. Sharing is sharing, not joyriding. You want to share my horse, you pay a contribution - its no skin off my nose to leave him out in the field if the only alternative is a freeloader.
 
Queenbee said:
Sparked from the 'pay to ride my horse' thread - lets look at this another way. How about if I advertised my horse like this

'Ride, share and enjoy my horse - the one I paid for and continue to pay for for absolutely nothing, if it gets ill, needs treatment, needs food, shoeing, bedding, dentistry, back done, new tack, rugs etc... don't worry, I will be paying - because its my horse... you can just do all the fun stuff, with no responsibility, no obligation because you don't want to own a horse and have all that - you just want the fun part...'

doesn't really work for me.

There will always be all types of horses up for share/loan, some will be green, some will need a rider that is willing to 'school' or help with training. That does not necessarily mean that the owner is looking for someone to train their horse, just someone who will ride it sympathetically, with the experience and knowledge that to ride a green horse means you are teaching it at the same time as riding. Shock horror, there are also those sharers out there, that want to share such horses - to participate in bringing on a horse for their own pleasure, they don't want a horse for themselves or are not in a position to have one, but they get great enjoyment out of riding such a horse.

There is a difference between wanting your horse 'trained' and wanting someone as a sharer who is appropriate for a green horse. Yes there are some seriously cheeky adverts looking for someone to put in all the work for the owner, but there are some cheeky potential 'sharers' out there who want to ride someone elses pride and joy without any contribution towards keep or even shoes. Sharing is sharing, not joyriding. You want to share my horse, you pay a contribution - its no skin off my nose to leave him out in the field if the only alternative is a freeloader.
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Both agree and disagree. Share agreements work when both owner and sharer feel get a good deal, if that can be achieved for both parties.

Both my horses are schooled to medium with changes. But imo every time anyone rides them are either building them up and training them or breaking them and teaching bad habits.

I've a non paying sharer for one horse who mainly hacks one or both and does chores. And a paying sharer for other who doesn't do chores, does mix hacking, schooling, lessons.

Both sharers are brilliant from my point of view.
 
If I have the time to exercise my horse every day I will do it. If I don't have that time and someone else agrees to do this for me I am grateful for that favour and don't expect any form of payment.

In fact, I would more than happily pay a knowledgable rider to exercise my horse if I was short of time and conversely I wouldn't let a useless rider ride my horse no matter how much they paid me!
 
minesadouble said:
If I have the time to exercise my horse every day I will do it. If I don't have that time and someone else agrees to do this for me I am grateful for that favour and don't expect any form of payment.

In fact, I would more than happily pay a knowledgable rider to exercise my horse if I was short of time and conversely I wouldn't let a useless rider ride my horse no matter how much they paid me!
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This is how i feel about my situation but i do know what you are getting at Queenbee. I have a wonderful lady who rides my OH's horse as he hasn't got enough time to keep him fit at the moment and iv'e never really gelled riding him myself. She's a lovely rider who adores him, she buys his Devils Claw and does offer to help more but the fact is , i live in the arse end of the world and finding a kind and responsible sharer is a bloody miracle as far as i'm concerned.
 
minesadouble said:
If I have the time to exercise my horse every day I will do it. If I don't have that time and someone else agrees to do this for me I am grateful for that favour and don't expect any form of payment.

In fact, I would more than happily pay a knowledgable rider to exercise my horse if I was short of time and conversely I wouldn't let a useless rider ride my horse no matter how much they paid me!
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Don't get me wrong, If I want to specifically get someone in to do a certain job - I have no issue paying a professional to do so, but that is a 'service' personally I generally send mine away to a pro for training but yep, getting someone in to provide a service is an option too, my point is that a part-loan/share is not a service - I do not loan or share my horses for training, and I certainly don't loan or share for them to be kept fit.

There is all this talk about how the sharers are doing the owners a huge service/favour - what about the fact that the owner is actually enabling someone to ride/enjoy their horse? There are so many people out there who do not have the finance or circumstances or time for their own, they perhaps do not want to go to a riding school for 'organised hacks or lessons' what about the 'service' the owner is providing? The ability for someone to pursue their passion and love of horses?

I just wish people would stop banging on about owners being the selfish ones, I wouldn't let someone use my car three days a week without putting petrol in it and paying towards tax and wear and tear - I don't see why people expect a free ride for nothing. My sharers/ loaners have always been given the opportunity of competing - I will opt to let them compete my horse in a class instead of riding him in all classes myself, or even take him on their own with my YO, while I stay behind. I don't do that because I want them to be competing him and not me, I do it because they enjoy it, and as an owner I would feel mean not allowing them to enjoy all aspects of riding my horse... is it really so terrible to ask someone to pay towards keep of my horse when they essentially get to treat him as their own on their days?
 
Queenbee said:
Don't get me wrong, If I want to specifically get someone in to do a certain job - I have no issue paying a professional to do so, but that is a 'service' personally I generally send mine away to a pro for training but yep, getting someone in to provide a service is an option too, my point is that a part-loan/share is not a service - I do not loan or share my horses for training, and I certainly don't loan or share for them to be kept fit.

There is all this talk about how the sharers are doing the owners a huge service/favour - what about the fact that the owner is actually enabling someone to ride/enjoy their horse? There are so many people out there who do not have the finance or circumstances or time for their own, they perhaps do not want to go to a riding school for 'organised hacks or lessons' what about the 'service' the owner is providing? The ability for someone to pursue their passion and love of horses?

I just wish people would stop banging on about owners being the selfish ones, I wouldn't let someone use my car three days a week without putting petrol in it and paying towards tax and wear and tear - I don't see why people expect a free ride for nothing. My sharers/ loaners have always been given the opportunity of competing - I will opt to let them compete my horse in a class instead of riding him in all classes myself, or even take him on their own with my YO, while I stay behind. I don't do that because I want them to be competing him and not me, I do it because they enjoy it, and as an owner I would feel mean not allowing them to enjoy all aspects of riding my horse... is it really so terrible to ask someone to pay towards keep of my horse when they essentially get to treat him as their own on their days?
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I completely agree with you.
 
It depends doesn't it on the horse pay to ride my half broke four year old er no ride my well schooled well mannered nine year old would not suit me at all either way I am a control freak but I can see why someone who wanted no responsibility would do it.

However I do worry about the legal and liability side of things when you take money from someone .
 
I guess it depends on why someone is looking for a sharer. Nobody is forcing owners to share their horse and I suspect that no owner thinks 'let me put my horse up to share just so that another rider can get to benefit from the experience of kind-of owning a horse'.
People share their horses because they lack either the time or money to provide for all of their needs. Therefore, the need for a sharer is driven by the owner's circumstances. If the owner had ample time and ample money, what are the chances that they'd be looking to share their horse with someone (a stranger at that)?
If the issue is one of money, and the owner can't meet all of the care costs themselves, they stand a better chance of finding a sharer willing to 'buy into' that sharing relationship if their 'product' (the horse) is worth it. A well schooled, mannerly horse that's good to compete and safe to hack, with whom a rider can learn and grow works of course be worth at more by way of financial contribution that a quirky youngster with a mean attitude and sketchy education. So, I would be willing to contribute to the cost of care of a horse that will improve me. A horse that I had to work on to improve, not so much.
If the issue is one of insufficient time, then someone willing to put that time in should be a solution in itself, and I fail to see why money should then change hands as well. You've solved your time problem by finding somebody to ride and sort your horse on a given day, why would you want paying for this on top? Irrespective of the quality of the horse.
That's my take on the whole thing anyway...
 
Goldenstar said:
It depends doesn't it on the horse pay to ride my half broke four year old er no ride my well schooled well mannered nine year old would not suit me at all either way I am a control freak but I can see why someone who wanted no responsibility would do it.

However I do worry about the legal and liability side of things when you take money from someone .
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It does depend on the horse, however I think it also depends on the rider, what they want to do etc. For example, I had a sharer who rode ben 3 days a week, and only wanted to hack, he payed a contribution - Ben was 5. I had someone who Rode Ebony 3 days a week, but wanted to do a bit of everything, including compete - the contribution was larger. With regards to the legal and liability side, I have a comprehensive loan contract, drafted by myself and my father - a lawyer... in it it clearly covers loaners responsibility for liability and all my loaners are required to take out BHS insurance. Nothing is perfect, but I feel that it is as good as it can get, bearing in mind that they will be riding a horse with a brain of its own.

Currently, I don't have a sharer for the beast, but it just rankled me - as owners we are entrusting someone with our pride and joy, something we have put blood sweat and tears into producing and keeping. Loaning a horse for me is not something I take lightly and it is certainly about finding a good match for my horse as opposed to having any help to foot the bill. But I do expect a contribution, and I actually feel that often it follows that the calibre of loaner inquiries is far better than if offering a freebie. There are too many people that want to pitch up, ride and give nothing in return - whether that be money or doing all the other stuff like mucking out and poo-picking. A contribution instills a sense of responsibility in my opinion.
 
Flicker said:
I guess it depends on why someone is looking for a sharer. Nobody is forcing owners to share their horse and I suspect that no owner thinks 'let me put my horse up to share just so that another rider can get to benefit from the experience of kind-of owning a horse'.
People share their horses because they lack either the time or money to provide for all of their needs. Therefore, the need for a sharer is driven by the owner's circumstances. If the owner had ample time and ample money, what are the chances that they'd be looking to share their horse with someone (a stranger at that)?
If the issue is one of money, and the owner can't meet all of the care costs themselves, they stand a better chance of finding a sharer willing to 'buy into' that sharing relationship if their 'product' (the horse) is worth it. A well schooled, mannerly horse that's good to compete and safe to hack, with whom a rider can learn and grow works of course be worth at more by way of financial contribution that a quirky youngster with a mean attitude and sketchy education. So, I would be willing to contribute to the cost of care of a horse that will improve me. A horse that I had to work on to improve, not so much.
If the issue is one of insufficient time, then someone willing to put that time in should be a solution in itself, and I fail to see why money should then change hands as well. You've solved your time problem by finding somebody to ride and sort your horse on a given day, why would you want paying for this on top? Irrespective of the quality of the horse.
That's my take on the whole thing anyway...
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My take on that would be if you want a horse that you can ride to 'improve yourself' go buy your own and pay for it, pay for lessons or pay someone a fraction of what it would cost you as an owner, to share one.
 
Queenbee said:
My take on that would be if you want a horse that you can ride to 'improve yourself' go buy your own and pay for it, pay for lessons or pay someone a fraction of what it would cost you as an owner, to share one.
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And mine is, if you don't have the time and money to take care of your own horse/s why should you expect someone else to stump up?
 
I guess what it boils down to is if your horse is 'worth it' to someone. The vast majority of people looking to share will want a sane horse who is good to hack, and access to said hacking.

If your horse is green, difficult etc, needs a skilled rider, you might not find someone willing to pay, in which case beggars can't be choosers. Most skilled riders I know get lots of offers of free rides!
 
When I had a sharer I asked for a financial contribution even though I didn't need it, because the experience I had had on a few busy yards where many people had sharers, was the ones that didn't pay were less reliable about turning up. Not all, I knew one person who didn't pay and was really reliable and a good rider and in this case the owner didn't appreciate what an asset she had. However lots of others just seemed to turn up when they felt like it, even when they were supposed to do some chores - feed, hay and water after they'd ridden.

The way I think of it is if you were going to a show and it was raining and you were tired after work, you might not bother but if you'd paid for tickets in advance, you'd me more likely to make an effort.
 
Also, most people looking for a sharer aren't doing it to give someone an opportunity to ride, they are doing it because they don't have the time/money to look after horse themselves.

I can totally understand why you'd want payment, and it that may be the whole point of finding a sharer - but I can also see why people look at some ads and think 'seriously??'.
 
minesadouble said:
If I have the time to exercise my horse every day I will do it. If I don't have that time and someone else agrees to do this for me I am grateful for that favour and don't expect any form of payment.

In fact, I would more than happily pay a knowledgable rider to exercise my horse if I was short of time and conversely I wouldn't let a useless rider ride my horse no matter how much they paid me!
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I was going to write a reply, but your opinion sums it up beautifully :-)
 
I've been on both sides of the coin at different times in my life. As the owner - sharer mainly as a child my parents struggled to afford it so payment was mainly to help with costs. Certainly would not have shared for nothing. Sharing is a great step from riding school to horse ownership. He wasn't a novice ride either as was an ornery, stubborn old sod!

As an adult I shared a variety of other horses when my income was low and my career path more important. None were really novice rides but apart from one they were not nuts either. I was quite happy to pay towards their keep as it was better than riding one hour a week on a riding school horse.

As long as both parties are happy with the arrangement I don't see what business it is for anyone else. If you don't want to pay don't and carry on riding at a riding school or buy your own.
 
I used to have a paying sharer, fab girl who treated him brilliantly, like her own. She moved, boo. Currently, my sharer does not pay. She turns out and mucks out every day. She occasionally buys bedding/treats. She makes up haynets/feeds. She's a dressage type and Pony Club judge. Her friend catches in for me on days when she's not there. I'm aware I'm extremely fortunate. I would not swap her for a paying sharer.

Point being, it all hinges on what you need, what works for the individual. She gives me a darn sight more than money and treats him as though he was the special horse ever. :)
 
Flicker said:
And mine is, if you don't have the time and money to take care of your own horse/s why should you expect someone else to stump up?
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and why would that someone else expect to ride someone elses horse gratis. I have already said, I have both the time and the money... looks like your take is that the sharer would be the only one providing anything to such an agreement.... bit bloody hard to share if the owner doesn't provide you with THEIR horse to ride isn't it?

Lord save us from freeloaders who think the world owes them something!

Pigeon said:
I guess what it boils down to is if your horse is 'worth it' to someone. The vast majority of people looking to share will want a sane horse who is good to hack, and access to said hacking.

If your horse is green, difficult etc, needs a skilled rider, you might not find someone willing to pay, in which case beggars can't be choosers. Most skilled riders I know get lots of offers of free rides!
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I don't disagree, however - my point is that there are sharers out there who want the 'challenge' in fact that is partly what they are looking for, perhaps a feisty horse, or something they can school or jump - clearly there are going to be very few people looking for something that is going to try and kill them lol, but then that is a time for pro-services and not advertising for sharers.

Its about finding the right match, sharer - horse - owner... personally, the beast is a strong boy - loves his work and not an inch of malice in him although his enthusiasm can be overwhelming to some - so he would need an experienced sharer... someone who will continually reinforce boundaries, not let him get away with anything - give him love and praise and -most importantly enjoy him. My horse would not be for share to be trained, or to train a rider... he would however come with the expectation that the sharer keep up with his training...

Going back to the subject of who is doing who the favour, It is my take that both the owner and the sharer are providing the other with something - the owner the horse, the sharer the riding - but the owner is also providing the money to keep said horse, the ownership of responsibility, the sharer can walk away if the horse becomes sick or unable to be ridden, this is something that as owners we have chosen, yes... but if someone wants the pleasure of riding my horse for 'x' days a week, they must contribute towards the essentials that enable them to do so. Let's get something straight, they are not riding someones horse out of the goodness of their heart - they are doing so because they want to enjoy the luxury of it. They want to ride a horse without owning, because they either do not have the funds or the time themselves. I would feel so cheeky and rude riding someone else's horse and not offering anything in return, to the point where I would not be able to continue unless they agreed to take some form of contribution.
 
cinnamontoast said:
I used to have a paying sharer, fab girl who treated him brilliantly, like her own. She moved, boo. Currently, my sharer does not pay. She turns out and mucks out every day. She occasionally buys bedding/treats. She makes up haynets/feeds. She's a dressage type and Pony Club judge. Her friend catches in for me on days when she's not there. I'm aware I'm extremely fortunate. I would not swap her for a paying sharer.

Point being, it all hinges on what you need, what works for the individual. She gives me a darn sight more than money and treats him as though he was the special horse ever. :)
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Another that I don't disagree with, it is what works for those involved, for example - I have a very good friend, sadly she moved away but she is ben's second mummy, she came to stay for 10 days and I had a marvelous week off, she rode him, mucked out, poo-picked and competed him... If she were here and I was looking to share at the moment - I would have no hesitation letting her ride for free (aside from the fact that she would want to contribute).

My problem isn't with free-loans vs paid loans per say, its with those sharers/loaners who expect it as their right.
 
Why do we need another thread on this? There is already one running where all of these arguments have been through.
 
DiNozzo said:
Why do we need another thread on this? There is already one running where all of these arguments have been through.
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because I decided to post one - sorry, I must have overlooked the memo stating you were the thread police

The other thread was 'for' freeloading, this one is 'against' freeloading.


Not that anyone has to explain themselves
 
I had a sharer for daughters horse over winter (I'd have loved to keep her but she moved away)
I didn't expect payment and she did no chores other than wash and brush him after riding.
This worked for both of us, she didn't have much spare time and it was the riding I struggled with (daylight!)
I'd not in a million years expect to find a sharer who paid to spend time with my retired boy though.
 
I have a sharer. Over the winter they have not made any financial contribution as they muck out, turnout etc on their days. Now the horse is out 24/7 I am asking for a small contribution which will cover the cost of her shoes. For this my sharer gets a sane sensible horse who hacks, schools, jumps and is easy to do. Use of indoor, outdoor and unlimited off road riding. No chores. Just turn up and ride. I don't think its a bad deal and it helps me out. Horse benefits too.

Asking someone to pay for a horse which is green, quirky or living in a mud pit is another story.
 
minesadouble said:
If I have the time to exercise my horse every day I will do it. If I don't have that time and someone else agrees to do this for me I am grateful for that favour and don't expect any form of payment.

In fact, I would more than happily pay a knowledgable rider to exercise my horse if I was short of time and conversely I wouldn't let a useless rider ride my horse no matter how much they paid me!
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IME someone can be an kind, tidy, organised, sensible, capable rider without necessarily having the skills to school or improve a horse in the school. Both my sharers are capable to hack and school alone. But I am the competing, training rider. That isn't what they want to do.

I think there are a number of professional riders and trainers whom I would not let ride my horses. Sharers that are competent, and not massively effective in the school, with a lot of common sense, and good heart are IMO far less harm and more benefit than the "wrong" professional rider.
 
Depends on what the owner and rider want out of it. Every situation is different!

For example: a friend at my yard, who has a horse of her own there, has been schooling another livery's horse two times per week because that gelding's owner works a zillion hours and only has time to ride on weekends. Horse is a nutcase if it's only worked weekends. My friend rides him for free. Suits her, because she likes the horse, and suits the owner, because the horse gets exercised. The owner initially wanted a sharer to contribute towards costs as well, but like I said on the other thread, didn't advertise because she was afraid of fruitbats. No fruitbats, but that meant horse didn't get ridden, either, and she was struggling to cope with its over-excited behaviour. So she made the arrangement with my friend -- at least the horse gets worked. I think if my friend had to pay for a share on that horse, she'd be more than happy to back to only riding her own!
 
See, QB, you say your chap is not for share to be trained, or to train a rider. My take on it is that every single time someone sits on my horse, they're training it - well, or poorly, intentionally or otherwise. I also believe that every rider should be learning something from every horse - otherwise, what the heck is the point, and, more so, what the devil are they even doing up there, because nobody (not even Andrew Nicholson's thighs) knows everything.

Thus, I do not let anyone ride my horses other than in my presence. If I did, I would only make them available to someone with the skill and tact to ensure the training which they are, always, undergoing is positive. That is more important to me than any financial contribution - money is nothing, when compared with the importance of the training, nature and sanity of my horses - who are a combined 14 years worth of work, blood, sweat, tears and more.

If I required a sharer, I would not prioritise a financial contribution. If a good rider - and there are some on here who have spoken out in favour of free shares in the past - were available, and did not wish to contribute financially, I would be very grateful for their skill set. I wouldn't consider any sharer who I didn't feel would contribute positively to my horses' experience and training, regardless of what they were willing to pay.
 
JFTD said:
See, QB, you say your chap is not for share to be trained, or to train a rider. My take on it is that every single time someone sits on my horse, they're training it - well, or poorly, intentionally or otherwise. I also believe that every rider should be learning something from every horse - otherwise, what the heck is the point, and, more so, what the devil are they even doing up there, because nobody (not even Andrew Nicholson's thighs) knows everything.

Thus, I do not let anyone ride my horses other than in my presence. If I did, I would only make them available to someone with the skill and tact to ensure the training which they are, always, undergoing is positive. That is more important to me than any financial contribution - money is nothing, when compared with the importance of the training, nature and sanity of my horses - who are a combined 14 years worth of work, blood, sweat, tears and more.

If I required a sharer, I would not prioritise a financial contribution. If a good rider - and there are some on here who have spoken out in favour of free shares in the past - were available, and did not wish to contribute financially, I would be very grateful for their skill set. I wouldn't consider any sharer who I didn't feel would contribute positively to my horses' experience and training, regardless of what they were willing to pay.
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I totally agree with this. For me the money is not important and if i needed it to maintain my horses I wouldn't have them. Give me a good rider who will at least maintain but hopefully improve the horse every ride, over any amount of money. My horses are all pleasant to ride and well schooled but any time someone else is riding them I want to over see what is happening to be sure they aren't *un* training them.
 
I've had 2 horses on share arrangements and in neither instance did I pay nor did either party expect payment. Neither owner had time to give the horses the exercise they needed, but neither horse was the sort of ride where you'd be happy to pop just anyone on board (one was a nutter and the other was just backed). I was an experienced rider whose work circumstances meant I didn't have time for one of my own, so the arrangements suited us all.

The lady who owned the one that was stupidly excitable had actually been paying someone to ride it, so a free share for her was saving her money.
 
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