Sharing/part-loaning debate: paying AND doing jobs

I too agree with your husband. It sounds like you have a special bond with your horse and owner, but £25 per week really isn't great value given the restrictions you appear to have with riding, especially considering the point you made about when the horse has competed the day before. You sound lovely and very tolerant, and maybe you don't mind the setup you have, but I can definitely see where your husband is coming from!

For what it's worth, I have loaned, shared, owned and loaned out over the years. Keeping horses is expensive, we all know that, but someone reliable who can be depended upon is worth their weight in gold, and financial gain on the owner's part shouldn't necessarily be at the forefront. If she didn't have you, and had to pay for the equivalent services (mucking, exercising etc.) at the livery yard, the charges would soon add up. She's onto a win/win at your expense I feel.
 
I would agree with your husband, it seems mad to me, and I am horsey! I will admit that I have never shared so probably don't really "get" it.

The way I see it - last winter when I was busy with work I had two days a week where I had someone come in, muck out, do all the chores, groom and ride. The only difference I can see from your situation is that you pay £25/week for the pleasure, and I paid her £25 a day for the inconvenience...
 
Lots of differing opinions, as expected!

RunToEarth hits the nail on the head - it's a pleasure to me, but an inconvenience to others. Sometimes I must admit the jobs are an inconvenience to me too though! :)
 
tobiano said:
I only ever ride my horses on 2 days a week and that works out at rather a lot more than £25 a week! :)
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That's how I justify not buying my own one - all I'd be buying is control. All I can give are these two days per week so I can pay £25 or I can pay £100+ per week! :D
 
If I didn't own horses, I would probably volunteer at a reputable riding school & perhaps get a free lesson with their qualified instructor. £25.00 for 2 days work! They should be paying you.
 
I share my horses and don't charge. It makes it more flexible, we can all swop and change days without too much worry. My sharers just help with jobs on the days they ride. I always make sure they get a weekend day each and another day or two mid week.

I can see your husband's point, especially in your case, where the owner is rather taking the mick by not allowing you to ride in certain circumstances. If the horse has competed and needs a rest (Monday I expect) she should not be giving you that day. If I were you I would look around for another share - good sharers are worth their weight in gold and thin on the ground, you are most likely to find something else better, bond or not.
 
Ok do you pay extra for shoes, feed, hay, vets visits, tack, insurance, livery etc etc? At the end of the day these all need paying for and £25 a week is one lesson at our local school so it depends what you want. It's the whole looking after a horse experience. Horse days again at the riding school are £50.
 
My husband is not horsey and thinks all horsey people are nuts anyway.
But every set up works for some and not for others, so if you are happy to pay to shovel **** and ride when you can then that is working for you, I'm sure the owner is perfectly happy with the arrangement! It is impossible to put a value of individual arrangements as how one perceives it will be different to another.
So, you seem happy and I assume you pay the £25pw not your OH so keep going and enjoy. :-)
 
if i shared my horse, and the person did no chores, i would want some money to contribute to costs. as although they would be doing me a favour exercising my horse, they would have to pay a lot more if they were using a horse at a riding school.

However, if they were doing lots of chores, i would not expect as much money, or possibly no money at all. It would be an amazing luxury to be able to have 2 days with no horse chores because your sharer is doing them.
 
Kaylum said:
Ok do you pay extra for shoes, feed, hay, vets visits, tack, insurance, livery etc etc? At the end of the day these all need paying for and £25 a week is one lesson at our local school so it depends what you want. It's the whole looking after a horse experience. Horse days again at the riding school are £50.
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I have my own insurance. He is unshod. My £100 per month is a significant chunk of what he costs per month in total.

Lessons at a RS round here are £35+.
 
Just a question - if I pay £250 a month for my horse and do the vast majority of the work myself, why should I just give someone the use of my horse for free two days a week? That just doesn't make sense... If I was getting something out of it, like professional livery care, or profession schooling then fair enough, but most sharers lack the experience IME to improve the horse or need supervising for a while with the day to day care (which a professional wouldn't need).

IMO a fair situation (for someone not improving a horse) would be a percentage of the costs based on their number of days, plus chores on their days. Part and parcel of horse is the rubbish stuff. So for a 2 day loan I would say £20 per week would be less than the actual cost of the horse for 2 days.

I have a girl riding my mare at the mo - she helps with jobs and schools her on her days. Originally she was supposed to be paying £25 a week for 3-4 days but she is contributing enough that I wouldn't take money from her. She has just got her own horse now though so I am, again, without a loaner.

I have had a girl contact me about my ad who said that she would come and help out but I would have to pay her to cover her travel expenses. I suggested she should find a horse a bit nearer to her. Someone else was interested but wanted to only ride, no jobs. Usually there aren't any jobs as they live out 24/7 but I've had experience of this situation before - stable and tack left so it's I've had twice as much to do the next day. A sharer really shouldn't create work for the owner.
 
I think I say this every time a sharing thread pops up but I like doing the jobs! It wouldn't feel like nearly the same thing if I paid my £20 a week and only rocked up to ride. That's why I chose a share over a riding school. Jobs are part of the overall experience.

The financial side of things always splits opinion. If you're happy with your setup, OP, stick with it!

I've taken to calling him my timeshare horse to non-horsey people. Seems to be a comparison that they understand better than sharing or part loaning.
 
Agree with what a lot of people have already said - i.e. it all depends! I've been riding and looking after other people's horses for 30 years, sometimes as an employee, sometimes in lessons, sometimes as a sharer. I've only paid when the horse was on full livery but even then I've ended up doing chores - tack cleaning, a decent groom - that the yard never did and I hated leaving undone. I have mucked out more boxes than I can count over the years and personally I would never pay for the privilege, even if there was riding, but I would do it in exchange for riding with no problems.

However, I can't subscribe to the 'treating the horse as your own' thing - if that were true my old share would have had the vet to him two years before he was finally put down with SI, hock and suspensory issues. I will no longer share mainly for this reason, but I still ride out for friends and do evening stables in exchange, or spend the odd morning at my local 'good' RS, where I will do a bit of mucking out and yard sweeping in exchange for warming up their schoolmasters or schooling anything not in lessons - I get a chance to play with changes and lateral work, which I wouldn't get with 99% of the shares round me. And occasionally I will be helpfully shouted at, which is nice! ;-)
 
I have only read a handful of replies, but this my two cents!

In my idea of a normal share agreement, the sharer is essentially getting to have a horse for 2/3 days a week. Having a horse means you (normally) get to ride it, have to do the necessary chores and have to pay for it. So, as a sharer you should also have to do that but just a smaller fraction of it. That is obviously a very basic view of it but thats the principle, a sharer should have to pay just as an owner has to pay.

It does however depend on the circumstance and you have to see what works for you. Having a 'rider' is different from having a 'sharer'.
 
Hi,
I have part loaned/shared, owned and had sharer, full loaned out and now full loaned. IMHO if the arrangement works for you and you are happy then that's all that matters. I would not be happy sharing and doing jobs if I could not ride if I wished TBH.

Was part loaning a Shetland for my daughter to learn on but he was mostly out of work so ended the arrangement - now loaning another full up Shetland for a token fee as he was just standing in the field looking cute and getting bored, okay I can't ride him without losing 3 stone and wearing roller skates - but he's for my daughter who is a beginner and there's more for her to learn than just riding so it works for us :)
 
Imo, it really depends on what you are willing to put in.

Sharing should be more than just riding - a lot of people share because they can't afford or don't have time to afford a horse.
A lot of people look for sharers because it means they have more time to themselves.

I would expect a sharer to muck out, groom, poo pick etc.
They essentially own my horse the days they have him as part of the share - they do the jobs I have to do and they contribute towards his upkeep.

A sharer does not just pay to ride the horse and do 'chores'.
There's also the wear and tear to tack (unless sharer uses their own), cost of shavings/bedding if sharer decides on adding in a bale every time they muck out, cost of shoes and trims, cost of any possible vets bills, cost of any repairs to stable/haynets/feed buckets etc

If I had a sharer who always added new bales, even if I had put one down the day before, I would expect them to at least cover the cost of bales. If the horse broke a headcollar when they were with the horse, I would expect them to fix it/replace it/contribute towards.
The same goes if they broke a fence, damaged a stable etc.
When you share the horse, the horse is essentially yours. Any costs they inquire while you have them you should either be insured against, or prepared to cover.

I can see both sides, and yes, some people are willing to let their horse be shared for free, others see sharing as a way of someone paying to do the jobs they don't want to do, others see it as a way of being able to keep their horse - say full livery is too expensive or they work an awkward shift.
The cost of sharing will vary with location, price of stabling, farrier etc as well.

There's a lot to consider, yes some owners do take the p, but others are very genuine.
 
They don't own the horse for the days they pay to hire it, they contribute towards the costs and if they are careless enough to break something then they should pay for a repair or replacement but not to fix fencing or stables unless they are negligent in some way, that is expecting too much and insurance would not cover it, that is like saying if the horse gets ill on the sharers day they should pay the vets bill which the owner should have insurance for but the sharer cannot take out cover for, as long as they have done nothing to cause the illness or injury it is down to the owner to sort out payment.
Cost of things like buckets and haynets are general wear and tear, I am sure many sharers are happy to buy the odd new thing but to expect it over and above the agreed contribution is unfair as these things will not be worn out any faster due to having a sharer, the same with tack, being ridden once or twice a week extra will make no difference to good quality tack they certainly should not be expected to provide their own, if they do and the saddle damages the horse it would be far worse than a little extra wear on the horses own saddle.
 
be positive said:
being ridden once or twice a week extra will make no difference to good quality tack
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Oh it can - I had a sharer who used to throw her leg forwards when tightening the girth with her foot still in the stirrup. This laziness/carelessness put scrawps all down the front of my brand new saddle. She didn't even think that it might damage the saddle as that is what she had always done - but she had only ridden in tatty old tack. That's just how my saddle looks now - tatty and old because someone increased the 'wear and tear' on it :( I spent more on my first saddle than my first car and I was ever so pleased with it...
 
I think a financial contribution is a good idea as it makes it more official - however, I don't think the sharers contribution should be proportional to the number of days they do compared to the monthly cost, simply because I dont think it is wise to rely on someone else financially to pay for your own horse. Lets face it - most don't look for a sharer because they want to give someone else a horse to play with, they do so because they need help. It is definitely a mutually beneficial relationship..
I would consider a sharer if my horse was sound; he is unshod and doesn't get much in the way of hard feed, so I think a small contribution of a tenner a week would be reasonable for 2-3 days a week, which is fairly insignificant in comparison to what I actually pay. Of course this is all academic cos I can't even ride him at present, he is currently a full time lawn mower!
 
Fides said:
Oh it can - I had a sharer who used to throw her leg forwards when tightening the girth with her foot still in the stirrup. This laziness/carelessness put scrawps all down the front of my brand new saddle. She didn't even think that it might damage the saddle as that is what she had always done - but she had only ridden in tatty old tack. That's just how my saddle looks now - tatty and old because someone increased the 'wear and tear' on it :( I spent more on my first saddle than my first car and I was ever so pleased with it...
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I always used to tighten the girth before I got on, sometimes I'll put the saddle on initially, walk the horse round and stretch his legs, then tighten it again, walk him round to the mounting block, then do a final tighten before I get on. No need to do it mounted then.
 
Unfortunately this is a subject that brings a lot of opinion and emotion behind it, mainly from everyones own personal experience. I always think as long as sharer/owner are happy and horse is too- that is all that matters!

For what it's worth- I am of the opinion that I would not want someone sharing my horse who 'only wants to ride' anyway. I would be cautious of their general care and concern for the horse in my absence (however I am sure this is not the case for all shares!) and probably is from my own experiences more than anything.

I see it as, it is my horse in which I have invested a lot of time and money, if I ever shared her they would have an opportunity of a horse for 3/4 days a week as well as a full week when I am away with work. I would absorb the main financial chunk towards my horse (vets bills, feed, shoes etc), so I do not see an issue with asking for a contribution towards her, especially as they would have a horse as their 'own' some weeks, for no extra cost! Yes they would be doing jobs as required, but surely that is part of owning/sharing/loaning a horse and comes as part and parcel of the hobby?

By adding some kind of financial tie in/ responsibility, could it be said that it may encourage a sharer to stick to their days and times, rather than to fade off or lose interest? I know it won't stop all doing that, but in my eyes it gives both owner and sharer a bit more respect and understanding of the set up.... Neither would I enter into a loan/share without a contract of some sorts either!

If I were the one sharing, I would be more than happy to pay and would also be willing to chip in with jobs on my days. I do not see an issue with a contribution, as long as the owner in question is not expecting someone to absorb huge financial costs and majority of jobs (I am aware there are bad owners out there looking for a get out of jail free card, which I do not agree with!).

The cost of lessons and also loaning at any livery yard or riding school can be huge, so sharing is a great bargain in some respects, if you find the right horse and right situation. Personally I would never insult a set up which was different to one than I would want, because everyone is different i.e sharer pays nothing. If people don't agree, then obviously that horse/set up/sharer is not the one for those involved!

PS- OP you aren't the only mad one. You seem happy in your situation, perhaps you can write down everything about it that is good (including that it is your down time, you hobby and your passion!), why you are happy and enjoy it and explain it to your husband, at a time when he isn't already waiting to critique the situation. Does he have a hobby you can compare it to, so he gets the picture a bit; ie fishing, cars?! Or perhaps get him to realise the money you are saving by not owning your own! :D
 
If you are happy with the arrangement, then go with it as doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

When I had a sharer for one of mine, I used to charge her half a set of shoes and a contribution to winter forage which had to be bought in. She could ride as much as she wanted, but on those days also did any related chores eg poo picking.

However the horse in question was kept at mine, so no livery to pay - if it had been on livery I may have asked for a more formal contribution.

It worked well for both parties, and more importantly the horse too!
 
misskk88 said:
For what it's worth- I am of the opinion that I would not want someone sharing my horse who 'only wants to ride' anyway. I would be cautious of their general care and concern for the horse in my absence (however I am sure this is not the case for all shares!) and probably is from my own experiences more than anything.
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see, any horse I would ride would get groomed before and after, skipped out/water changed and tack wiped over as a matter of course. But if I muck out or poo pick,well I am not paying to do that sorry. I would gladly pay to ride the horse but I am not paying to be the groom. Of course if the OP is happy with the arrangement that's fine, she did ask though :D
 
pippixox said:
if i shared my horse, and the person did no chores, i would want some money to contribute to costs. as although they would be doing me a favour exercising my horse, they would have to pay a lot more if they were using a horse at a riding school.

However, if they were doing lots of chores, i would not expect as much money, or possibly no money at all. It would be an amazing luxury to be able to have 2 days with no horse chores because your sharer is doing them.
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I completely agree with this. I help a lady out with her chores 1/2 times a week and in return I get to ride for her with no financial contribution. She's very busy and couldn't be more grateful so it works out really well for us both. I think I'd feel differently if I was just turning up to ride and would definitely want to contribute financially.

That said, I can completely understand that paying for the full experience of being around a horse on a one to one basis and doing jobs would be more appealing than just one riding lesson a week for many a horse lover. At the end of the day, when it comes down to loans/shares every situation is completely individual and it's impossible to say what's right or wrong. If it works for you and you're happy, that's all that matters.
 
I've had sharers in the past for one of mine who is perfect for novices. I did it partly because it was good for him and because he gives so much pleasure to people who aren't confident enough to own a horse or don't have the time/money for ownership.
For people who were experienced, I charged nothing, but for novices, I charged about £25 for 3 days but I had to train them in all aspects of horse care, nutrition and common aliments etc. I had to ensure that they were safe and able to enjoy the experience. They also had to earn about commitment and what it's like to turn up at 6am and unfreeze frozen taps and turn out safely in bad weather.

Paying for a weekly riding lesson and being able to cancel when its inconvenient is a massive leap away from buying a horse and going it alone. Sharing is a gentle introduction and a learning curve with someone else there to take over when things go wrong.

If a someone objects to getting stuck in and resents doing certain tasks, they aren't the sort of person I'd want as a sharer. Even poo picking is an opportunity for observing the horses in the field at leisure. Every task is important in contributing to the horse's health and well being in some way and if that seems like a waste of time, it'd be better to pay an RS for an hour's riding instead.
 
I've had sharers for my mare for years I'd never let her go on loan but she has no job with me. Mostly they don't see the stable & yard work as a chore but part of the whole sharing experience. When I just get on and do her anyway along with the others, they can be upset they missed the chance to manage the horse themselves.
Horse is pretty much exclusively theirs, she is fabulous, I will happily do her completely anyway, but expect help if I am away, otherwise they can do as much or as little as they want. They pay £80 pcm, which is obviously pretty cheap.

I think as a sharer you have to compare the cost with that of hiring or using a RS, it will always work out cheaper, if you love horses you enjoy all the chores that go along with it. It's like rebuilding and cleaning cars, people enjoy all that mucky, tiresome work, just as much as driving them.
 
Fides said:
Oh it can - I had a sharer who used to throw her leg forwards when tightening the girth with her foot still in the stirrup. This laziness/carelessness put scrawps all down the front of my brand new saddle. She didn't even think that it might damage the saddle as that is what she had always done - but she had only ridden in tatty old tack. That's just how my saddle looks now - tatty and old because someone increased the 'wear and tear' on it :( I spent more on my first saddle than my first car and I was ever so pleased with it...
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Is this not completely normal?? I don't understand how that has scraped the front of your saddle.
 
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