Sheath cleaning!

cptrayes said:
If you mean there's nothing natural about a penis which is never used except to pee, that isn't true. Stallions have a small herd of mares. Births are roughly 50/50 male and female. So most male horses would never serve a mare.
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True, but intact males tend to expose themselves on a frequent and regular basis, which probably have a cleaning function - for the penis at least, if not the deep recesses of the sheath. My impression is that geldings do this less infrequently and some not at all (though one can't be definitive about these things without keeping 24hr watch! Sue McDonnell probably has something to say about this).

I've never cleaned a geldings sheath out in my life. I believe it risks doing more harm than good.
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Too much cleaning or use of antibacterials - someone mentioned Hibiscrub - is definitely a bad idea because it can kill the natural fauna allowing more pathological bacteria to colonise. In general, the more often someone cleans the sheath, the more often is has to be done. So I agree with you up to a point. However, some geldings may need cleaning at some point if peeing become uncomfortable or difficult. I would take not dropping to pee as a sign that the sheath needs attention. But by attention I mean removal of lumps, checking for 'the bean', and washing with mild/plain liquid soap and water, or maybe one of the commercial products (assuming it doesn't contain an antibacterial).

Baby oil is definitely the wrong PH and is risky!
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I wouldn't use baby oil myself. Imo, the only thing that's safe to leave a sheath damp with is water.
 
alliersv1 said:
So: the equine urethra is fairly large diameter, and indeed will permit you to very gently insinuate one of your slimmer fingers inside the urethral opening. Do so, and explore upwards for what will feel like a lump or "pea" buried no more than, I dunno, perhaps 3/4" in from the opening.
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A minor correction to an otherwise worthy document...

The lump forms in what is called the urethral fossa (a small hollow), located just above the opening of the urethra, not inside the urethra itself. Don't attempt to insinuate a finger into the urethra or you could do some damage and cause an infection.
 
That's what always confused me about the bean, I read everything as it would be 'inside the urethra' and I thought I'm not looking in there that had to be quite dangerous! However a fee months ago, this bean appeared from no where!

In regards to cleaning, my boy is pink and gets munched by flies in the summer, so throughout the summer he gets it's done every few months then i usually leave it unless it looks very grubby.

I can't understand those of you that don't wear gloves?!!
 
fburton said:
A minor correction to an otherwise worthy document...

The lump forms in what is called the urethral fossa (a small hollow), located just above the opening of the urethra, not inside the urethra itself. Don't attempt to insinuate a finger into the urethra or you could do some damage and cause an infection.
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Agree.
When my vet showed me, she pushed back the head slightly and said that the bean was normally located around the lip that was created by doing so. When the penis is in its normal position you wouldn't see it, as it sort of overlaps, but there was no "poking of fingers" anywhere. I was actually glad she showed me, because going by the above instructions, I would have got it all wrong!
 
Lord help me!!! I've been meaning to do my lads for *ahem* a while, and just never seemed to get around to it (excuses, excuses)! Think i'll be calling the vet shortly... Would prefer them to show me how it's "done" with my own eyes first!!

Gulp!! :o
 
Why on earth do people do this?

It is not necessary. In fact once you clean it, it stimulates more smegma to be formed and cleaning needs to be done more and more often.

I firmly believe that the job should only be done if there is an actual problem (infection/smell/discharge). In all my 35 years with horses I have never come across one with a problem.
 
Wagtail said:
Why on earth do people do this?

It is not necessary. In fact once you clean it, it stimulates more smegma to be formed and cleaning needs to be done more and more often.

I firmly believe that the job should only be done if there is an actual problem (infection/smell/discharge). In all my 35 years with horses I have never come across one with a problem.
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I am more than happy to take your advice!
I too have never heard of the BEAN,so now I too will worry that my horse has massive one.
My previous yard owner used to suprise me by her frequent rumagings in her geldings private places.She also seemed to love groping and fondling her colts' b&lls and would often encourage passers by to have a feel!:o
 
Wagtail said:
Why on earth do people do this?
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Over fastidiousness about horse's cleanliness. An understandable and laudable desire to do the best for their horse. Because they've heard it has to be done from other people. Take your pick.

It is not necessary. In fact once you clean it, it stimulates more smegma to be formed and cleaning needs to be done more and more often.
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I agree it can become self-defeating. If done at all and done right (i.e. not too thoroughly!), 1-3 times a year is quite enough. Some geldings don't require any attention, although others do - tbh, I think you were lucky.

[quoteI firmly believe that the job should only be done if there is an actual problem (infection/smell/discharge).[/QUOTE]
I would add to the 'actual problem' category horses that used to pee normally (i.e. after dropping) and then stopped doing this, or horses that show any signs of discomfort or difficulty in peeing.
 
I may have been lucky but have cared for in excess of 60 geldings in my life (as a groom, yard owner and horse owner) and none have had a problem that required the sheath to be cleaned.
 
abitodd said:
My previous yard owner used to suprise me by her frequent rumagings in her geldings private places.She also seemed to love groping and fondling her colts' b&lls and would often encourage passers by to have a feel!:o
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There's nowt so queer as folk! :rolleyes:

However, in her defence, such groping - let's call it manual palpation - can occasionally pick up problems that might otherwise be missed, such as a rotated testicle (yes, it happens!) which, if it remains rotated, can disrupt the blood supply to the testicle.
 
Wagtail said:
I may have been lucky but have cared for in excess of 60 geldings in my life (as a groom, yard owner and horse owner) and none have had a problem that required the sheath to be cleaned.
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In that case, I reckon you were very lucky indeed! In about 30 years, I have seen two cases in roughly the same number of geldings where action needed to be taken, with vet help, as a result of chronic 'neglect' (not overenthusiatic cleaning). In addition to those, my own TB developed a 'bean' which needed to be removed because he started spraying urine when peeing - although that only happened once in his life, at the end of a very hot summer (which makes me wondering if heat & sweating accelerates the production and accumulation of smegma).
 
It's a lump of compressed smegma that can form in the little hollow in the end of a horse's willy - typically a grey or ivory colour and not to be confused with the dark coloured lumps of sheath-gunk.
 
Ok, so I'm confused, do I do it or not?

I've had him 4 years and haven't done it yet :o

Must admit, the main "private part" is a tad, erm, crusty?! And at the beggining of summer he did have some discharge between his legs (not much though), but he's clear now.

So should I clean or not?? :confused:
 
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BorgRae said:
Ok, so I'm confused, do I do it or not?

I've had him 4 years and haven't done it yet :o

Must admit, the main "private part" is a tad, erm, crusty?! And at the beggining of summer he did have some discharge between his legs (not much though), but he's clear now.

So should I clean or not?? :confused:
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Okay audience, vote now on your keypads!

Personally, I wouldn't wash it, but maybe gently remove some of the crustiness by hand if the horse doesn't object - but keep an eye out for any signs of further discharge.
 
BorgRae said:
Ok, so I'm confused, do I do it or not?

I've had him 4 years and haven't done it yet :o

Must admit, the main "private part" is a tad, erm, crusty?! And at the beggining of summer he did have some discharge between his legs (not much though), but he's clear now.

So should I clean or not?? :confused:
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Leave well alone, or as Fburton says, just pick off the crusty bits. If your boy seems happy and comfortable, doesn't smell or have a discharge then I would say he is coping very well indeed without interference.
 
fburton said:
Okay audience, vote now on your keypads!

Personally, I wouldn't wash it, but maybe gently remove some of the crustiness by hand if the horse doesn't object - but keep an eye out for any signs of further discharge.
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Phew... That sounds like a good plan to me! I'll keep an eye out for any changes though.

I must admit, I'd be loathed to clean it this time, then have to continually clean it (monthly) just because i've started (if that makes sense?!)

Thanks for the reply! You've saved me a job and a vet bill!! :D
 
my 5 yr old always fully puts his todger out when having a pee, it has a little bit of old dead skin on which on the odd occassion i manage to pick off, but he doesnt like me touching it anyway. always if he has a scratch he drops it out too!

if he is ok dropping it out and wee'ing as normal should i assume he doesnt have a "bean"?
 
Perissa said:
I do my boy's about once every other month or so. First I squirt a syringe of baby oil up the sheath as far as it will reach. This is really good if your boy objects as it can be done very quickly and will loosen and lubricate quite high up so the ermmm residue will work its own way out.

My boy is very good at having his man parts cleaned so I then I get a good glob of lubricating gel (I use Boots own brand) on a baby wipe and wipe around the inside of the sheath about a hands depth in, as I have found this is where my boy is the dirtyiest. I get crusty looking lumps of out which can't be comfortable for him.

Sometimes I just wash him out with warm water and sometimes I use a tiny amount of hibiscrub in the water.

I never use gloves although my vet says you should!

I also check for 'the bean' and remove one about every 6 months.

ed.
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Yeah, that's all very well, but do you do the horse too.:eek::eek: :D:D
 
cptrayes said:
My geldings do, it is normal for them to let it all hang out early in the morning!
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I've noticed it can be a communal activity - i.e. a bunch of geldings (or colts) do it at the same time. Heaven knows why though!

(Of course, I meant less frequently, not infrequently, above. I seem to be making rather a lot of typos this morning!)
 
Wagtail said:
I may have been lucky but have cared for in excess of 60 geldings in my life (as a groom, yard owner and horse owner) and none have had a problem that required the sheath to be cleaned.
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I have exactly the same experience and I don't believe you and I have been lucky at all. It is only in the last couple of years that anyone has talked about routinely cleaning out a horse's sheath. Before that, it was just never mentioned except for breeding stallions. Funnily enough, around about the same time, companies started to market sheath cleaning products. Call me cynical, but I reckon that this is more about marketing a product than horse health.

The sheath is an environment where there are good bugs fighting bad bugs and "cleaning" it with anything that kills bacteria when there is no obvious reason to do it risks giving the bad bacteria the upper hand. Some of the problems people have mentioned in this thread have probably come from cleaning in the first place. Unless there is a nasty smell and/or a nasty dicharge, I believe it should be left well alone. And for me "nasty discharge" does not include a bit of sticky black stuff on the inside of the back legs now and again.
 
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cptrayes said:
I have exactly the same experience and I don't believe you and I have been lucky at all. It is only in the last couple of years that anyone has talked about routinely cleaning out a horse's sheath. Before that, it was just never mentioned except for breeding stallions. Funnily enough, around about the same time, companies started to market sheath cleaning products. Call me cynical, but I reckon that this is more about marketing a product than horse health.
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I'm sure product marketing plays a big part (probably even more so in America, and we are - as usual - playing 'catch up' with them).

Maybe if the cases I remember had received some minimal 'dry cleaning' they would not have needed more serious intervention later on? Who knows!

Breeding stallions are another matter, of course, because they are (usually) washed routinely before and/or after covering or collecting.

The sheath is an environment where there are good bugs fighting bad bugs and "cleaning" it with anything that kills bacteria when there is no obvious reason to do it risks giving the bad bacteria the upper hand. Some of the problems people have mentioned in this thread have probably come from cleaning in the first place. Unless there is a nasty smell and/or a nasty dicharge, I believe it should be left well alone.
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No arguments there. Mild soap and water should be safe; antiseptics and antibacterials are definitely not.

And for me "nasty discharge" does not include a bit of sticky black stuff on the inside of the back legs now and again.
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Again, agreed. For me, a "nasty discharge" would have a distinctly unpleasant smell (not that sheath smell is particularly pleasant - but with experience one learns to recognize what is normal vs abnormal)
 
I never used to use hibiscrub but my horse was at Liphook Equine Hospital a couple of years ago and was sedated for some treatment, he dropped and and the vet asked if I wanted to take advantage of the fact he was 'relaxed' and clean it. He is a senior partner and he got a bowl of warm water with tiny amount of hibiscrub in it. He cleaned my horse's parts and said that you should use gloves because smegma is carcinogenic - hence my comment about not using gloves even though you should - I find I can feel my way around better without :o. But that is why I very occasionally use hibiscrub because my vet did. The vet also removed his bean, he told me to do it at least a couple of times a year as it is much easier to remove when small.

My stallions (as I mentioned before I have only had 2 and one has passed away now) get 'excited' and I found that just by doing this and belly rubbing it kept/keeps the penis clean. My current stallion has never covered a mare. My gelding does not do belly rubbing and rarely gets erect (which makes the crusty bits flake off), therefore his penis can get very crusty and his sheath gets lumps of smegma in the folds. If I don't clean his parts he gets smelly and the smegma sticks to the insides of his legs - not a good look on a grey show horse.
 
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fburton said:
Okay audience, vote now on your keypads!

Personally, I wouldn't wash it, but maybe gently remove some of the crustiness by hand if the horse doesn't object - but keep an eye out for any signs of further discharge.
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I would agree with this. I wouldn't normally clean a sheath, and as I said, had never bothered before, but when my horse began showing signs of discomfort, it was decided to get it done along with some other veterinary checks at the same time, as he was sedated anyway.
He was kept entire until he was about 6, was used as a stallion, and always seemed to be pretty clean. However, since he was gelded (just over 2 years ago) there has been a large buildup of crusty gunk in the (not inconsiderable) folds of his sheath. I have tried to sneakily remove some, and have picked some of the flakes off his todger when he'll let me, and would have continued doing that if it had not been for the problem. Some of the stuff that was removed was vile, and also in quite large, hard chunks, so I believe that it was the right thing to do, and will continue to have it done every 6 months as she suggested.
However..if there had been no problem in the first place, I would have most likely left well alone.
The thing that did surprise me was that his sheath had always been quite large, but he is a big lad, and I just thought that was it, but after the cleaning, it did look noticeably less puffy, so it seems that it had been a bit inflamed without us even realising.
 
Perissa said:
I never used to use hibiscrub but my horse was at Liphook Equine Hospital a couple of years ago and was sedated for some treatment, he dropped and and the vet asked if I wanted to take advantage of the fact he was 'relaxed' and clean it. He is a senior partner and he got a bowl of warm water with tiny amount of hibiscrub in it. He cleaned my horse's parts and said that you should use gloves because smegma is carcinogenic - hence my comment about not using gloves even though you should - I find I can feel my way around better without :o. But that is why I very occasionally use hibiscrub because my vet did. The vet also removed his bean, he told me to do it at least a couple of times a year as it is much easier to remove when small.
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Hmm, seems like the vet gave you a mix of good and bad advice - good advice about the bean, and bad about the hibiscrub. Unfortunately, vets sometimes gets things wrong, because they are taught incorrectly or not at all. I know from personal experience that vets can have holes in their knowledge, both practical and theoretical.

The carcinogenic smegma thing is probably wrong too (see report below of rather horrible but informative experiments). In any case, short periods of contact with the skin of the hand leading to tumour development is incompatible with what's known about carcinogens. These substances typically need long exposure times to cause cancer - think cigarette smoke or asbestos. If they were so highly carcinogenic, they'd also cause cancer in horses - and I doubt any evidence exists for that.

http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/vanhowe2006/

On the other hand(!), an argument could be made for wearing gloves a hygienic point of view - stopping you getting anything nasty from the horse before you go off and have sandwiches, and also stopping you giving the horse something nasty from your hands.

My stallions (as I mentioned before I have only had 2 and one has passed away now) get 'excited' and I found that just by doing this and belly rubbing it kept/keeps the penis clean. My current stallion has never covered a mare. My gelding does not do belly rubbing and rarely gets erect (which makes the crusty bits flake off), therefore his penis can get very crusty and his sheath gets lumps of smegma in the folds. If I don't clean his parts he gets smelly and the smegma sticks to the insides of his legs - not a good look on a grey show horse.
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Yup, that's the point I was making in a previous post about stallions vs geldings.
 
Markie's sheath is like an open black bin bag and, I reckon, when nobody's looking, he commando crawls along the floor hoovering things up in it! Then, when it's full of assorted flooring items, nature takes over and produces fluid to eradicate the hoovered items, flies like the smell and taste of said fluid, so Markie then uses his fully feathered white hind legs to remove the munching flies! It's a right faff trying to get, black sticky stuff off his legs, so, it's much easier to have a good old wipe around every few weeks (sometimes just a damp, warm sponge, or, every now and again, a bit of baby shampoo too). He seems to enjoy the whole procedure, stands untied with his bottom lip hanging, and doesn't seem worried about the odd bit of dead skin being rubbed off his manhood in the slightest.
My old Welsh gelding was always as clean as a whistle, I reckon his sheath had a drawstring on it, but didn't mind the odd inspection. I never, ever did one of the geldings I had in my youth as I might have died! He was particular about his manly bits, didn't like even being brushed anywhere near there, and he was the only gelding I've had that ever made 'that' noise. I assumed it was because he was never cleaned, but, another livery recently said that it's just a noise some horses make!
 
fburton said:
True, but intact males tend to expose themselves on a frequent and regular basis, which probably have a cleaning function - for the penis at least, if not the deep recesses of the sheath. My impression is that geldings do this less infrequently and some not at all (though one can't be definitive about these things without keeping 24hr watch! Sue McDonnell probably has something to say about this).


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Interesting.....one of my geldings is frequently hanging free and easy....and no cornflakes to be seen. Clean as a whistle.

The other one rarely has his out and my god.....it absolutely hums.:eek: I really had to clean it a few weeks ago......up to my elbows I was, in the inner sanctum....

Not top of my list of horse-care activities I must say.

At least no small children came to the gate to see the ponies whilst the 'proceedure' was taking place:o
 
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