Sheep Dog Training

AmyMay

AmyMay

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So some of you will remember that I recently posted about a BC looking for a new home. Owner changed her mind and is now keeping said dog. I walk it several times a week. He’s just over two years old and a ‘failed’ working dog, as he wouldn’t work the sheep - and my client has had him for about 10 weeks now.

So, to my question which is about training.

As a dog trained to work the sheep - how is it usually done? Because he’s friggin amazing. One word and he does it, be it close work or from a distance. I’d die to own a dog like him. It’s totally inspiring.
 
But if he’s a failed sheepdog then presumably he hasn’t been taught to work sheep? Or am I totally missing the point?! (Probably, I have tired puppy brain).

As to how you train a sheepdog, it’s basically all about harnessing the natural instincts and talents already inherent in the dog.
 
rabatsa said:
Why did he fail? Too strong with the sheep or not strong enough? Sheepdogs are usually taught the down before starting with sheep.
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Not sure tbh.

But it really got me thinking about how they’re trained - compared to the ‘pet dog, where a lot of training is great based. And obviously this wouldn’t be the case with a sheep dog )I’m assuming).
 
amymay said:
Not sure tbh.

But it really got me thinking about how they’re trained - compared to the ‘pet dog, where a lot of training is great based. And obviously this wouldn’t be the case with a sheep dog )I’m assuming).
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From my experience (my hubby is a shepherd with eight sheepdogs) there are still a lot of traditional methods used in sheep dog training. Food/toys aren’t generally used as the greatest reward for the dog is to be allowed to continue to work. We do start off our pups recall (that’ll do), lie down and basic manners away from the sheep and although I’ve been involved in the initial foundation training in the past we tend to bicker about it, as I use food for luring and rewarding and hubby uses tone of voice, just praise and putting the dog physically in the down. He’s actually very kind hearted with his dogs but he’s just never cottoned on to positive only training and uses what I’d consider a more balanced approach. I’ve seen some very harsh methods used by some farmers/shepherds where pain, fear and intimidation are the order of the day 🙁. Thankfully border collies are very intelligent, quick to learn (good AND bad) and thrive on training and exercise so are relatively easily trained. They do need the right inherent instincts for sheep though to make a useful working dog and the best dogs are very natural on sheep.
 
I had a border collie as a pet, he was never trained with sheep but herding came naturally to him. He was great for gathering recalcitrant horses :D
 
When the primary drive is to herd, chase, possess etc, you don't need food or a treat to make them do that. As a massive generalisation, with purely pet/show bred dogs with low drives, you have to get them to do something they don't really want to/feel compelled to do naturally, through praise, food, toys, physical encouragement, 'you must' - whatever. With a working bred dog, you have to put control into it and almost stop them from doing a lot of the things they want to do, or channel it. Using praise, food, toys, physical restraint, 'you mustn't' - whatever.
It's very hard to put in what's not there naturally.
 
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Aled our first border collie had always been a pet, but when at the horses, would run around them at a distance, you could see his natural instinct.

I don’t let Bo in the field with the horses, he constantly tries to move them about, nips at their heels and has a couple of kicks. He now waits in the car whilst I sort the horses, and then we go for our walk. When he was “on” the horses, nothing would tempt him away. However, if we see horses out on our walks, he will immediately go into a down, and will “come” to me.
 
I see what CC and Moobli are saying, I imagine a free running untrained border collie would round up anything, all day, quite happily, with no breaks at all. So training is about stopping doing that and taking on human input.
I think all dogs should learn 'stop' even pets, it is such a useful tool to have.
 
I agree. Luna has been taught “wait”. If we’re crossing the road, I open the car boot etc to let her out, she will wait. We’ve learnt since having him that Bo knows stay. It’s almost a full blown conversation in certain situations these days 🤣

We know from his previous owners that “that’ll do” is his cue that his work is finished. He totally ignores me. Am not sure if it’s because I’m not a man, or if I just don’t say it quite right? I think I remember you saying that your dogs respond differently if it’s you or your OH on the whistle?
 
I can confirm the harsh methods some farmers use. One owner I know of closely has been taught by a national trials winner and part of the training kit is a length of blue alkathene pipe ☹️

The dogs I've seen trained (four all by the same owner) are taught left, right and lie down, begun in small crofts with either a few sheep or even some ducks, and build up from there to bigger flocks in open fields.

..
 
The sheepdog trainer I took my pup to has DVDs on how he starts a young dog, involving a round pen with sheep in to help the dog learn its directions and to mirror the shepherd. Sadly the reality of his approach to my dog (although not trying to teach him to work sheep) was very different, quiet and calm but underneath it very harsh, irritated and frustrated, choke chain up behind the ears almost throttling the dog constantly, flooding, stress. If he treats his own dogs that way I can’t imagine they are happy, but I’m sure they are very biddable.
 
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