Sheep proofing dogs

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poiuytrewq

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There seem to be few sheep locally and one on footpaths so I’d never really known how Bertie would react to them.
The last 10 days or so someone has been grazing sheep in one of the farm crop fields. They had 3 low strands of electric wire round the entire field. One side is a wide pathway rather than just quad size so the first day we went past on a lead. I don’t think anyone noticed. Second we passed loose. The sheep were right up against the fence and ran when the saw us so he did go to chase but came straight back when called.
Since then he has passed daily and now seems to want to go through the fence but not particularly to the sheep I don’t think. He seems to just ignore them completely now.
Today they move again and this time will be on a field we go all the way round. So I won’t be risking that as someone will definitely get a shock. I’d need eyes in the back of my head to keep all 4 from touching a sudden electric fence that’s appeared on their running loose patch!
The field is absolutely huge. Would it be beneficial sheep proofing wise to take B in, maybe do a bit of training on the long line first as a precaution but to just get him doing a bit of basic sit stay come etc and practice around them?
Not that I’d ever go through unknown sheep with a loose dog but it would be nice to know for sure he wouldn’t chase, would recall in all situations and it’s just another checklist thing, or would training in a regular field at home not translate to meeting sheep out walking?
 
I would think going to chase and smacking into the electric fence will be as good a lesson as any. 🤣.
Seeing that isn’t ideal I think it’s going to be all on leads and keep walking/distract.
I do spend time with mine around sheep but for desensitising you really want a big flock that isn’t going to run away, it’s just too exciting.
 
Local farmer to us will still do some sheep training, I think (but might have bits wrong!) firstly tied up in the sheep barn watching, then going around the pens on a lead. Obviously with commands not just dragging around on the lead. If this isn’t sinking in then in a pen with a ewe and her lamb whilst still in the lead. Tends to concentrate the dogs mind somewhat.

In your position I would just keep them all on lead, especially as you have a pack. We too have a pack (seven) and I wouldn’t trust them en masse but individually they’d be quite different (in a good way).
 
Legally your dog shouldn’t be straying off the footpath anyway, so that’s a definite 'no' to a long line when there’s livestock out, and you shouldn’t really be allowing the dogs to 'run loose' in those fields ordinarily.
Bit of a sore subject for me as I have a footpath crossing my land and the entitlement of dog owners is just something else!
 
Mine is completely oblivious to livestock (not really a credit to my training, his breeding is just not inclined to chase/herd so he doesn't even acknowledge their existence) but I would still always have him on a lead anywhere there were sheep. Chasing livestock is my biggest fear, I did once get caught out when walking down a footpath with hedges either side and dog dived into the hedge exploring when I saw sheep on the other side - I roared at him so loudly I don't know who jumped more, the dog or OH :oops:😅 Dog was very confused but it was literally a shock response- my stomach flipped when I spotted the sheep! I consider it a privilege, not a right, to be walking across someone elses land, so always use a short lead, stick to the path and try to get across as swiftly as possible wherever there is livestock in view. TBH I don't generally allow my dogs to run free in farmers fields full stop (with the exception perhaps if it was freshly cut stubble and not in use) it just feels disrespectful - we use the local woods and more 'dog friendly' areas for that. If you have one that will just trot along behind/ahead of you and sticking to the path that's different, but I feel letting my dog go yomping across someones field is a bit like letting him run around someone's garden.
 
He always on a lead on public land these are a friends
Sheep temporarily grazing private fields at home.
Question was is it worth taking advantage of sheep on the doorstep to use as a new training tactic really.
I won’t be walking th others round until they are gone as the old boy is terrified of electrics and it would be awful if he got a shock. He doesn’t walk on a lead and his reaction time is slow so if he wandered towards it and I shouted him he wouldn’t instantly respond so just not risking that one!
 
My pup will be trained with sheep using next doors tups and then his pet lambs. Not in any way that will risk the dog or sheep’s health but it’s just easier if the dog is intimidated rather than the sheep.
I’d just walk elsewhere while they are there, like you I am lead averse so go with avoidance.
 
CorvusCorax said:
A lot of dogs who are that way inclined will be fine being on a line with the sheep miles away, being fed treats. If the sheep are up close and they run, no treat in the world will override that dopamine hit. It's two different pictures.

I would not risk taking my dog into a field with someone else's sheep in it.
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I’d only disagree in that I work mine on the moors around sheep and their focus is all on the hunt and the retrieve, they blank the sheep altogether. But work mode and play mode are very different.
 
poiuytrewq said:
would training in a regular field at home not translate to meeting sheep out walking?
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That's the view I take; I have access to pet sheep and just because my dogs can be steady in controlled circumstances with them, who are themselves very well handled and used to dogs, doesn't mean they would react the same way with a flighty feral hill sheep or a whole bolting flock. But I am very risk averse and love a lead. For the sake of a few weeks until they've eaten the crop and moved on I would just use a lead or avoid.

The exception might be for a structured avoidance program of the highly aversive sort usually reserved for known sheep worriers, but I'd personally want to engage a professional for that.
 
Always have your dog(s) on a lead when walking them near livestock on land that is not yours, no matter how wonderfully trained you believe your pooch to be 🙂. Just why wouldn’t you?

I can answer that - complacency and/or laziness.

Having said that, the late JRT trained himself not to chase sheep when he ran full pelt into electric sheep string and got zapped on the nose. Those sheep were grazing on our land with our permission, but I hadn’t realise that the owner had put them back on the field so the dog was loose and ignoring recall 🙈.

The bar is now rightly very high for any off lead dog to be considered to be under full control around livestock.

skinnydipper

Thread 'Livestock worrying law update'

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I would think twice about letting a dog hit an electric fence since one of my foster dogs did just this and bolted for miles, crossing a stream in spate and ending up on a main road miles away, thankfully picked up by a motorist before he got run over. I had had dogs get shocked before and just a momentary ouch! So did not expect this and more permanent grey hairs.
 
blackcob said:
The exception might be for a structured avoidance program of the highly aversive sort usually reserved for known sheep worriers, but I'd personally want to engage a professional for that.
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I disagree that avoidance programs are only for known sheep worriers. In my opinion EVERY dog should be exposed to such training at an early age as:

1. Sheep have an annoying habit of escaping and popping up where you least expect them
2. It's a lot easier to teach a youngster that hasn't had the thrill of the chase and/or kill than one that has.
3. Leads and collars have been known to break and dogs have been known to slip out of harnesses
4. Anchoring a large prey driven dog (or two!) is not for the faint hearted and has resulted in broken limbs and other injuries (to the human)

If anyone wants to go down this route with their dog Deb Bowns of D4Dogs runs days over near Ludlow about this time of year when a local farmer gives her access.
 
Just keep the dog on a lead if any chance of sheep. it’s not worth risking it, My retriever went to chase some sheep when young and ran straight into the electric fence. Was scared of sheep therafter, but.. last year I was walking through a field where I did not think there were any sheep and there were a bunch of escapees from somewhere under a tree. They took off and my dog went after one of them. Fortunately I managed to catch up with her in a corner and I think the sheep, a young ram, was scared but ok (my dog stopped running when the sheep did and did not attempt to attack in any way). Anyway, it really shook me and since then I am very selective about where I let her off the lead and never let her run loose if I am somewhere I don’t know. Shock training, perhaps any training, cannot be relied on once animals start fleeing.
 
gunnergundog said:
I disagree that avoidance programs are only for known sheep worriers. In my opinion EVERY dog should be exposed to such training at an early age
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I did say usually. 😉 I don’t disagree but IME many ‘pet’ dog owners would baulk at the process, and only go to someone like that as a last resort.
 
I would never risk it. Not worth it. You risk your dog being shot if anything goes wrong. Just keep them on a lead near livestock. If you need to ttrain your dog with sheep thats a different matter and needs to be done in controlled environment. Otherwise keep them on a lead. I just would not risk it however well trained they are.
 
blackcob said:
I did say usually. 😉 I don’t disagree but IME many ‘pet’ dog owners would baulk at the process, and only go to someone like that as a last resort.
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Yep, unless people are prepared to do what sometimes (often?!) needs to be done (and if they aren't, that's fine) - lead!

On that note, if one wants to train avoidance but also wants to work their dog in a various disciplines - I've seen it where a dog has noped out of something because they have been taught not even to *look* at livestock. If the livestock are close to or in the way of the thing they need to be doing, that can cause issues.
 
Clodagh said:
I’d only disagree in that I work mine on the moors around sheep and their focus is all on the hunt and the retrieve, they blank the sheep altogether. But work mode and play mode are very different.
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Same, he couldnt give a toss about sheep, he loves his job and thats all hes interested in. However unless hes working hes on a lead round them as I wont risk it, and my other non working dog is a pillock about sheep despite a ton of training with my own rock steady sheep.
 
I had a Battersea dog years back, she was about a year old. We went over a style, on a familiar footpath and sheep had been put in the field, strip grazing, there were no signs up or she would have been instantly on her lead. She went to run towards them, straight into the electric fence and remained convinced until her dying day that sheep can bite from a distance.
 
poiuytrewq said:
He always on a lead on public land these are a friends
Sheep temporarily grazing private fields at home.
Question was is it worth taking advantage of sheep on the doorstep to use as a new training tactic really.
I won’t be walking th others round until they are gone as the old boy is terrified of electrics and it would be awful if he got a shock. He doesn’t walk on a lead and his reaction time is slow so if he wandered towards it and I shouted him he wouldn’t instantly respond so just not risking that one!
Click to expand...

Well, I would say there would be some benefit to doing some sheep training, given there was a glimmer of a chase instinct. Being able to get a stop/leave in if you encounter sheep unawares is always good to have in the bank.

BUT - I’d only do it with the land owner and sheep owner permission and the dog would always be on a long line.
 
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