She's started rearing again =[

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Cedars

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Bloody mare. Long story short, had KS diagnosed in October, operated on, two sites fixed. Brought back into work v slowly, lunged for about 3 months, sat on her beginning of August, been doing v v v V light hacking (and got on for the first time in the school obv). So far, she's not put a foot wrong. UNTIL:

Yesterday. OH (who is riding her) puts on her saddle. Does up girth. Mini rear. Undoes girth. Mini rear. Does girth up again. Mini rear. Peserves, walks her around for a bit. Does girth up bit tighter (we're still talking can get whole hand in between her stomach and the girth). Mini rear. Eventually get to tightness he's happy with. Get on, lovely hack, no further issues.

Today, lunge her. Put roller on. Mini rear. Do girth up. Big rear. Do girth up again, no problems. Absolute angel to lunge.

Vet has been and given her the all clear. Also had Gillian Higgins out about a week ago to do their backs, she didn't find a single problem. Saddle is poorly fitting but is by no means atrocious, and have been told by everyone to wait until she's fitter to have proper saddle fitted (as she currently resembles a whale that ate a house).

Just looking for comfort really that she will start behaving again and come through it! She's NOT in pain, its been verified by 3 vets AND the back lady, and the rears are naughty rears, not pain rears (I recognise her pain rears from before, when shes stood on her back legs kicking out at you with white eyes).

Just feeling very frustrated, suppose we had taken eye off the ball as she was doing SO well.

Cookies for everyone. xx
 
((((Hugs))))

You'll get there. If they are naughty rears she will stop when she realises it doesn't work. I'm sure you know the drill. Don't react to her. Certainly don't punish her and make sure she is safe. But just carry on so she knows that mucking about doesn't get her anywhere.

Good luck!
 
I'm sorry, but that's rubbish about waiting til the horse is fit to have a comfy saddle! I'm a big fan of Balance saddles, and if you believe all the stuff about backs changing shape with fitness (which I'm very sceptical about), the pad system allows you to alter the saddle slightly very easily.
 
Oh, poor you.

Even if you aren't getting proper re-flocking etc done until horsey changes shape could you get saddler out to fit some pads of something as an interim measure? Or lunge (and walk-hack if you're feeling brave & there are two of you around) bareback for the fittening? After having come so far it would be a terrible shame to make her remember the really bad pain of KS and get into bad habits with relatively preventable pain caused by tack. Ha'peth of tar and all that.

Good luck and take care!
 
I'm sorry, but that's rubbish about waiting til the horse is fit to have a comfy saddle!
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I agree - no point spending thousands getting her back fixed, only to keep putting a badly fitting saddle on her back............

I wouldn't ride her until you've bought a new saddle for her.
 
horses have such a good memory - could that be a factor ? :(

I hope you get it sorted, sounds like a nightmare. Just out of interest, is bareback a possibility just for now ? sm x
 
We've been told by a highly respected saddler that she will change shape SO much that they just are not willing to fit us a saddle now as we'll need a totally new one when she's lost all the weight and gained her shape back. Saddler said its not a case of just putting pads in/taking pads out - she's going to change so drastically that it will be a case of a whole new saddle.

He also said that her current saddle is fine, it wont be causing her PAIN its just not the best for her, she could be moving more freely in a different saddle etc. But its by no means bouncing or rocking on her back or anything. Back lady also said there were no noticeable areas of soreness from the saddle (saddle has been used frequently before she came).

Think shes just being a little tart! When she does it she gets a growl, but we carry on regardless. She's not dangerous in it (and we always have hats on obviously). xxx
 
Perhaps a saddle that fits 'properly' will solve the problem.

Why are you waiting? If you are riding, the saddle needs to fit. Especially with a history of back problems.

I would get one fitted now, and then change it when she's fitter. Or stick with lunging & ground work for now, until you are happy to only need one saddle fitting.

Just my thoughts :)
 
shysmum said:
horses have such a good memory - could that be a factor ? :(

I hope you get it sorted, sounds like a nightmare. Just out of interest, is bareback a possibility just for now ? sm x
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The vet told us to expect "remembered pain" when they're used to it hurting so react as they did even though it doesnt hurt any more. You can almost see it in her face, she feels us do it up, rears, then you can see her thinking "hmm, that didnt actually hurt" but shes still reared.

Just so frustrated cos for ages she was so well behaved!

P.S. bareback not an option if you want to come away with my OHs bits still intact!! Lol.
 
She was on moody mare when she came out of the op (6 weeks box rest = LOTS of nibbled fingers), but we took her off it when they went out for the summer as 1. she does NOT need the chaff and 2. she was MUCH calmer after the surgery. Now the KS pain has gone, she's 1000 x nicer to be around!!

It she carries on, it might be worth trying again though.
 
flamehead said:
Think shes just being a little tart! When she does it she gets a growl, but we carry on regardless. She's not dangerous in it (and we always have hats on obviously). xxx
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In that case, I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for her! She's been well behaved for ages & now has started rearing again. Does that not tell you that something has changed?

Horses do not rear 'to be a little tart', they react to their circumstances & it sounds to me like she is in pain. Sorry.

Especially with a history of KS, I would be going back to my vet again...
 
Or have you thought it could a get out so as not to work - ie. rear, you back off, agreed you come back but it puts a temporary stop in?.

Friend had a cob who had some lameness ( can't remember what now) but it meant he was turned away for nearly the whole summer living out. Brought slowly back into work, till out hacking - then horribly lame. Vet out, found nothing, horse sound, hacking, horribly lame.

Till someone realised that Welly was going "lame" when he passed by his summer field...
 
Luci07, we do just plough on now, BUT when she was genuinely in pain (i.e. before the surgery) we were stopping when she reared as we knew something was up. At the time we knew we were teaching her that a rear meant we stopped working her, but we didnt know what else to do as she was obviously sore.

Just so frustrated as she wasnt showing any signs of remembering that rearing=no work until yesterday!
 
We've been told by a highly respected saddler that she will change shape SO much that they just are not willing to fit us a saddle now as we'll need a totally new one when she's lost all the weight and gained her shape back.
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So find another saddler who is prepared to work with you and the mare.

It's going to cost you, obviously. But I'm amazed you can just disregard her behaviour and put it down to being a 'tart'.

Presumably this horse has some value or meaning to you otherwise you wouldn't have had the operation done.

Surgery is only part of the process of recuperation. The rest is down to you and your management.......
 
amymay said:
The rest is down to you and your management.......
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Yes, and we have managed the situation as best as we possibly could have. If we'd gone any slower we'd be going backwards, she's had teeth checked, back checked, vet out so many times we've paid for a new car (!!), talked to saddler who said her saddle is NOT causing her ANY pain, its just not great for her as its quite a large saddle for a (should be!) dainty horse! But him, and back lady have said its not causing her any pain.

We're not going to buy a new saddle just to have to buy ANOTHER one in a month/two months time when she's back to the shape she should be.

Oh, and you think its the saddle? She did it today with her roller.
 
There are two areas of tightness under the tummy that can cause horses to react when you do up the girth; they are quite easy to release yourself with massage once you know where they are

I would recommend you get the book 'Beating muscle injuries in horses' It will show you specific points of tight muscles and how to relieve them.

My horse decided one day he couldn't canter on the left lead; vet found nothing, saddler found nothing, chiropractor found nothing. Was advised to send him away for schooling.

Bought the book on advice of a friend; best £20 I ever spent!

First time of asking we cantered left.

Please don't imagine your mare is being a little tart. You are attributing human behaviour to a horse. She is telling you loud and clear in the only way she can that she hurts somewhere. Please don't ignore her.
 
Oh, and you think its the saddle? She did it today with her roller.
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Fair point. In that case you're going to have to get her investigated again. As I'm sure you'll know, not all KS surgeries are successful, and maybe this is just one of those cases.
 
We had Gillian Higgins (google her) out for her the other day - she does back, and equine massage. She spent a good hour and a half releasing pressure, muscle tightness etc etc etc (and giving us stretches to help certain areas) and noted no problems in her stomach (we asked her to have a look specifically as she used to be really arsey when you brushed her stomach, she found nothing). We have her book of exercises, sounds similar to your book, and are doing the exercises recommended daily.

Thanks for that though, I didnt know that about the stomach, interesting!
 
flamehead said:
Just so frustrated as she wasnt showing any signs of remembering that rearing=no work until yesterday!
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This is the point I was trying to make.

She sounds like an honest mare to me, when you say she's not put a foot wrong. If she has started rearing again, something has changed to trigger this. I doubt if her memory of previous pain has just re-appeared overnight!

I would bet good money that she is in pain somewhere. Remove the pain = remove the rearing.

Ditto AmyMay, I would find a saddler willing to work with you. My saddler will part-ex saddles at pretty much purchase price, when I buy unfit horses who will change shape within months. Everyone's a winner.

If a well fitting saddle doesn't resolve the issue, I would be going back to my vet, again. For further & fuller investigations...
 
Another thought: could be a totally different pain issue... some horses get very upset about girths/rollers when they have ulcers. Doesn't have to be a skeletal/muscular thing just because that is what she has a history of.
 
I know you said you didn't want suggestions but have you considered getting a humane girth?

B had a terribly fitting saddle for some time and became extremely cold backed. Even now, several years on, you can't girth him too hard or too fast beacause he just runs straight backwards!!

I've found that the humane girth to be pretty useful - takes some of the shock out of it.

Fingers crossed for you. I'm sure things will get easier as time passes but it doesn't make it any less stressful now!
 
flamehead said:
We've been told by a highly respected saddler that she will change shape SO much that they just are not willing to fit us a saddle now as we'll need a totally new one when she's lost all the weight and gained her shape back. Saddler said its not a case of just putting pads in/taking pads out - she's going to change so drastically that it will be a case of a whole new saddle.

He also said that her current saddle is fine, it wont be causing her PAIN its just not the best for her, she could be moving more freely in a different saddle etc. But its by no means bouncing or rocking on her back or anything.
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i'm sorry, but i don't agree. now is the time she NEEDS a well fitting saddle. yes, she might change shape, in which case, get an adjustable one. or be prepared to get a new one in a few months. why not see if your fitter has any second hand ones, she may even take the first one back as part ex for the next one.

anyway, LOADS of saddles nowadays are adjustable. get one of them. good luck!

xx
 
ditto, you know and accept that the saddle is a "poor fit" (your words not mine)....so why the heck are you riding in it?! poor mare deserves better than that.

honestly, people do confuse and frustrate me sometimes.....................
 
She has a humane girth.
She has been treated for stomach ulcers previously, and has been rescoped very recently and they havent returned - but good thought!

Let me expand - the saddle is fine. Its not great, its not the BEST saddle for her.

However - it is FINE. It is NOT the cause of this pain.

Thank you very much for the useful suggestions =]
 
Seabiscuit (I think) successfully re-habbed her nice horse after a KS operation carried out by Svend Kold. Maybe she would have some info for you if asked.

IIRC especial care taken during saddle fitting was considered vital. What is the opinion of the vet who carried out the OP? Was he one of the people who told you not to get her saddle fitted now?
 
I just don't understand why you seem adament to label your horse as 'naughty', rather than in pain (your words, not mine).

Again, I do not think a horse who previously 'has not put a foot wrong' starts rearing overnight for no reason. Especially a horse with a history of ulcers & kissing spines.

Just because you haven't yet identified a source of pain does not mean that it is not there.

Whatever the problem turns out to be, I do hope you can sort it, for both your sakes.
 
The vet agreed with us that there is no point spending money on a saddle now, and then buying another one with money we dont have in 2/3 weeks.

Also, all of you getting on me about the saddle, I'd like to bold this:

SHE REARS IN HER ROLLER TOO. HER ROLLER FITS, TRUST ME!
 
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