She's started rearing again =[

*blows bubbles* me too!

Yes, she was xrayed straight after the surgery (one of them was v low down so they werent 100% they could get it all, but they did) and then she was xrayed about 2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks ago. After her recovery, field time, etc etc. The vet also watched her work in the school (on the lunge). I understand that normally happens. The vet (and the other vet that performed the surgery that happened to be around) said she was fine, working sound etc.
 
could you try just putting saddle or roller on, leaving for a few minutes before girthing up so to let her saddle/roller warm up on her back. This is what they use to do to coldbacked horses years ago.
 
Hmm I really do not think that her behaviour is ' naughty' and would stop using your saddle untill you decide to get another. She is obviously trying to tell you something as IMO horses generally react for a reason. How was she before her op?

I have heard it say that some horses are not able to be ridden again after a KS op. For whatever reason, even thought the surgery was considered succesful. My mare is only a week into recovery from her KS op. She had 4 pieces of bone removed so I have a way to go yet before I know but one thing in my horses favour was that she never showed and behavioural problems due to her condition as such. Yes, she would buck for england on the lunge and found it difficult to move forward happily under saddle but never objected to having a saddle or me on her.

It maybe that there is some other underlying problem possibly related to her op or not. But I would give your horse the benefit of doubt and maybe try another saddle or continue with strengthening excercises. Good luck though.
 
Mine had the KS op by Svend and when it came to riding I made sure that my saddle was refitted for that time and had it checked and or changed on a very regular basis. The saddler "spot stitched" around the scar tissue area too. To be honest with all the rehab and lunging he was probably in better shape than he had ever been in.

Have to say that I cant understand why you are not doing everything you can to make everything work out for you and more importantly your horse, who lets face, wont have had the time of her life recently.

I know that they are all different, but my horse insisted (or I hit the deck) that his saddle was slightly out of pattern (too big), had a really wide gullet, not pulled forward at all, serge panels and a professionals choice girth with elastic both ends. I walked him round for 5 mins, loose girth before I even thought about getting on. He never reacted to being tacked up, but if you got it wrong and sat on before our little ritual it hurt - us both!! I know that you said the roller fits, fair point. But maybe the saddle has hurt, created pain (real or not) and just anything going on will have an effect. Horses dont have a plan like we would, all reactions happen for a reason. If you truly dont think its the saddle.....

Could it be that the weather has got cooler?

Were all of the KS's removed?
 
I know I am turning into an echo of myself, but what does she eat. There is some largely annecdotal evidence that people may develop food intolerances following GA (epecially if GA in childhood) If she had ulcers previously then it is possible that her digestive system is compromised and this, along with the GA has made the situation worse. Worth a thought perhaps.
 
Her behaviour before - wouldnt go into an outline, full stop. No amount of riding, forcing, pessoaing, just wouldn't. Moved beautifully, just no outline. Then she reared up and over on top on my boyfriend's mum (who technically owns her) whilst she was riding, nearly killing the both of them.

She was also a snotty moody cow who hated being touched and used to rip chunks out of anyone that came near her. And I mean CHUNKS, not just a nip, we're talking like lose a finger chunks.

Echo bravo - thats what we're doing atm - do girth up, let her walk around a bit and chill, do it up a bit more, walk around a bit...etc etc. Its the immediate reaction to the girth being done up that is the problem.

I should also mention that she rears when you do the buckles up. Even if you're nowhere NEAR tight. This morning I had both fists inside the girth whilst my OH did it up to keep it from being tight on her.

I.e. its learned pain!

Thanks for the opinions and advice. And the comfort, from those who offered. x
 
If it's learned pain then she's learnt it very recently - because she's been rearing for only the past few days according to you. So back to my previous question. Where were the two op sites? Was one at or under the roller area?

As for how to help her, have you taught her to lower her head, rounding her back when being tacked up? By altering how the spinous processes "stand" that might make it less painful for her. Alternatively had you considered using a very elastic roller - possibly even an elasticated surcingle - with wide-spaced pressure relief over her spine for a few days until she seems more confident about being girthed up? And / or patting or tapping her all over the area where the saddle or roller and girth would sit before attempting to do the girth up?
 
I do understand why it has to be a new saddle. A good saddler should be able to change the flocking ( I know one who even will spread a tree) or if she has changed shape so much and gone up 2-3 'dress sizes' get a secondhand one and have it reflocked to fit. As someone has said the Balance system has been devised for horses who change shape.
Another quick fix is to get an air numnah http://www.fteltd.co.uk/Korrector/korrectorstyleandsize .htm
I had a very one sided youngster that we had to pump up one side till he muscled out.
I have a TB who can think that he's lame, it the vet hadn't seen him she wouldn't have beleaved the acting. If you are really happy that there's nothing phyiscal going on give her some bute but and change the routine and kid her out of it. We have to leave him till he forgets that he's lame.
Another thought although its late in the season, is ovualation inflamation, my pony mare gets very tender over her back in her cycle, its the only time she can buck.
 
Having had a horse with KS and after op, learned behaviour came on straight away for the first few days and then ceased once she realised that the pain was no longer there, you should not get it after a period of time.

Girth synch (sp) maybe is a possibility, just behind the shoulder is the biggest batch of nerve endings on a horse. Mares especially can be highly sensitive to these, and when girthed up either saddle or roller they go into spasm (not all the time but occasionally) and can cause very violent reactions from the horse and be painful.

A good way is to rug up the horse with cross surcingles as tight as you can then introduce a loose roller over the top, gradually tighten the roller than remove the rug over a period of time, so the nerve endings get a chance to calm down to see if alleviates the discomfort and the reaction of being girthed up.

I do agree however, a poor fitting saddle is not good and although not in pain it could cause enough discomfort that she remembers its not nice and even a roller is now giving her this memory or could be a combination of the two. A saddler that does not leave a job with a saddle that fits is pretty poor in my eyes.

Does she give any reaction when a saddle is put on her back and left without a girth being done up? Does her reaction only occur when you do up the girth? Same with the roller if you put the roller on her back and just leave it is there any reaction?
 
is my brain not working or something....the saddle should be perfect!!!its resting on her back with your full weight in it for christs sakes!!!! and if it doesnt fit perfectly then it may well have made her back so sore the roller hurts it too......or is that just too logical.

but carry on, because without people like you, i wouldnt have a job re-schooling all the ruined horses out there.

there is NO argument for using a saddle that does not fit.ever. if you have to pad it to fit around muscle wastage-fine. but if you cant do that and it has to be re-flocked every month, just do it. find the money. because long term you will end up spending more if you ride her in a badly fitted saddle.

................find wall.apply head.
 
is my brain not working or something....the saddle should be perfect!!!its resting on her back with your full weight in it for christs sakes!!!! and if it doesnt fit perfectly then it may well have made her back so sore the roller hurts it too......or is that just too logical.
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OP has decided that the mare is a cow, there is no pain, and the fit of the saddle is irrelevant.

Thankfully though it appears that actually this horse is not owned by her. So hopefully the lady who does own her has a little more common sense and concern for the mare's behaviour.
 
The saddle NEEDS to be 100% spot on. Not, 'not quite right, but OK', not 'not causing pain' (whilst it may be causing mild discomfort) but perfect.

She sounds like a very sensitive little mare- she also has reason to think saddles can HURT- because of the KS in the past. She was honest enough to behave after she was fixed- so SOMETHING has changed to make her doubtful again. She will be highly sensitive to any saddle imbalance.

I own a horse who is extremely sensitive, just because thats the way he is. I went through lots of heartache and frustration trying to find a saddler who would make my saddle PERFECT and not fob me of with a nearly right one. The slightest bit not quite right and my horse TELLS me very clearly with a hunched bck, swishy tail and if I think to get on a short period of hoppity grace to get off before he ejects me. He has done this with saddles that saddlers assure me are right- my horse tells me they are not I BELIEVE THE HORSE!! I have never caused him to have to eject me- I got off as soon as he told me when a saddler encouraged me to ride on a saddler the horse said wasn;t perfect.

Your horse is TELLING you- listen to her!!

The roller is a red herring- girth a not quite right saddle up on my horses back, then put a roller on the next time and he'd do the same as he remembers the discomfort.

I sucked it up, went through a few saddles,coped with the cost and finally found a great saddler and we do fine now with adjustments to keep my saddles perfect.

Try my saddler- he covers most of the country- and tell him her issues and how sensitive she is, explain you want the saddle absolutely perfect. In my experience he does not bullshit and if he can make your saddle fit he will, he won't just sell you a new one- but if thats what you need he will tell you.

www.thesaddleman.co.uk
 
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Have read all posts and I am sorry op that your mare is having such a hard time. I can only back up what other posters have said though. Your mare won't be doing it to be a tart or anything else. She is trying to tell you in the only way she knows that there is pain. Just because you haven't found anything, absolutly does not mean that there is no pain.

She has just had major surgery, with long rehab - this is the time in her life she needs a perfectly fitting saddle if ever there was one!! I understand there is a large cost involved. There is more choice than just buying a new saddle for a few months then having to sell it on at a loss. There are some nicely made adjustable saddles out there. Not guaranteed to fit when she has been in more work, but a decent chance of it and because they are adjustable then tend to sell on at a good price. Also, you could get a good second hand saddle, use it for as long as it fits your mare, then sell it on (already second hand so you are prob not going to loose much £ at all), then replace with another well fitting second hand saddle - repeat until she stops changing shape and enjoy!! Many saddlers will find you a good second hand, then allow you to part ex it when they sell you another to replace it when she changes shape.

After your physio came out and worked on some muscles, would your mare not be sore after? If you haven't fixed what was making those muscles tight then the prob will keep returning, doesn't matter that you have had it looked at once.

I don't know what saddler you use, but if mine ever told me the saddle fit wasn't great but it def wasn't causing pain, I'm afraid I would show him the door! How the hell does he know what your mare is feeling! In his opinion it may only be a little out, but your mare is telling you she has pain - I know who I would be listening to!

My mare just had her saddle re-fitted yest. A couple of days before she had started swinging round and making faces at me when I placed the saddle on her back. Not like her, only a little thing but she never does it so I knew something was up. Fortunatly the saddler was due out anyway so we didn't have to wait. The saddler said it was only out a little, and when we continued with her work (she has been out of work for 4 months and is abit of a fatty now unfortunatly) she would prob go v quickly back to her old shape. I have an adjustable saddle so it was altered to fit her better. I will need to keep a close eye on it and prob have it changed again in a month or so - worth it!!! Why should she have to suffer discomfort (no matter how minor we consider it to be) just for me to sit on her back?!

Please get more help with your mare, she needs help now after all she has been through, and if you ride her then it is up to you and her owner to ensure she gets it. Good luck, I'm sure it must be frustrating taking one step forward and then two back, but you owe it to her to get it right.

(I'm in your area and the back lady I use is Hilary Snow - an absolute legend who keeps oh v sensitive mare going beautifuly and has several times in the past picked up on small probs causing a big issue that vets, saddle fitters and farriers have been blind to. Without her we would have an unridable in pain mare - we tried many other highly recommended back people and physios, I wouldn't swap Hilary for the world though, no one has helped us with things like she has the skill and patience to.)
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
is my brain not working or something....the saddle should be perfect!!!its resting on her back with your full weight in it for christs sakes!!!! and if it doesnt fit perfectly then it may well have made her back so sore the roller hurts it too......or is that just too logical.
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I don't think it's your brain that's not working...

I understand how difficult it is with a horse that changes shape - mine's terrible for it. Every time he's out of work, even for a few days, he starts to drop topline, making the saddle fit questionable. That's why my saddler sees more of my yard than her own home! I have a different thickness saddle pad for every occasion, and would not hesitate to get a new saddle if it was required. Cannot stress the importance of properly fitting tack enough.
 
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