Shires Can! (I hope)

Ample Prosecco

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Well this is different....

About 2 years ago an owner on our yard died in very distressing circumstances. It appears she had made plan for all her animals without telling the people the plans involved - ie she made sure each animal had someone who was looking after it at the time of her death. But there was no legal framework around this like a will. And it blind-sided everyone. Mouse was her a very young shire horse mare who had only just been backed. The original owner had arranged for Mouse to be on full livery and had sorted out a sharer. The sharer had only just met Mouse and is very inexperienced. But she felt obliged to keep the horse -which was also the wish of the family - and do her best to respect the owner's clear wishes.

That context explains why her lovely new owner has struggled through no fault of her own - and why she is absolutely determined to address the issues.

Mouse hacked out nicely and was being handled daily by the YO. So things were ok at first. But gradually the new owner ran into difficulties as the horse began to test her. Earlier this year she realised she was out of her depth. She could no longer even lead her in, handle her feet etc. She kicked out at her, striking with a foreleg when being led, to get owwer to back off. When hacking, she planted and napped. New owner asked Joe Midgley for help and I have agreed to ride Mouse for her to get her back on the straight and narrow.

She is now 6 and huge. Joe sorted out ground manners pretty easily, then I got on recently for the first time and realised she has no clue what any of the buttons mean! She feels like an oil tanker. Hard to get moving but then hard to steer or stop too.

The first step was just to get her forward to address the napping, which was straightforward. Then to get her more off the leg as I was having to work WAY TOO HARD to keep her moving. She would take about 3 steps for each cue and then grind to a halt again. But within a few rides we had forward and responsiveness. So it was time for a Joe lesson. She has no sense of moving away from the leg or responding to the bit. She just leans into bit pressure while poughing on forward. And ignores cues to turn or bend. (She does these on the ground but it has not translated over). So in this lesson he got us going with back up and sideways to educate her about yielding to pressure from the bit or leg. Also that leg does not mean forward but 'energy'. So adding leg to back up meant an energised back up, not go foward. And after she started to understand that, we suddenly had stop and steer! Hurrah.

Link to his page where the lesson is discussed for anyone interested.


I am looking forward to a totally new challenge and hope to show that while we all know Cobs Can - Shires Can too!
 

JackFrost

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I have done a bit of ploughing with horses and not long ago I took on a young cob of goodness knows what breeding but with a lot of plough horse in it. When I started the horse, I really noticed that ploughing seemed to be in its DNA and it responded a little differently to ridden breeds. Being driven from behind comes naturally, also straight lines, steady changes, steady pace and being very attentive to voice commands to both stop and start. What seems to works is to think that this horse somehow already 'knows' how to plough, and adapt from there.
 

Ample Prosecco

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I have done a bit of ploughing with horses and not long ago I took on a young cob of goodness knows what breeding but with a lot of plough horse in it. When I started the horse, I really noticed that ploughing seemed to be in its DNA and it responded a little differently to ridden breeds. Being driven from behind comes naturally, also straight lines, steady changes, steady pace and being very attentive to voice commands to both stop and start. What seems to works is to think that this horse somehow already 'knows' how to plough, and adapt from there.

Yes! I used the word ploughing forward without even thinking about the fact she's a shire! It feels exactly like that, leaning into the pressure, very on the forehand, and dragging herself along.
 

JackFrost

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FWIW, try bitless, I get lightness in bitless, and confused/doesnt know what to do with a bit except push into it. Mine did the grinding to a halt, but like thinking it's supposed to keep stopping (which is exactly what happens when you are ploughing it's very stop-start). Moving away from the leg/sideways - well i dont think that kind of lateral movement has any place in ploughing or pulling, so it's like the horse is saying, 'no surely not that, I'm meant to keep straight!?'. I think I will introduce lateral from the ground.
I need to take the learning cues from the horse and listen to it a bit differently.
 

Errin Paddywack

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It is fascinating how these traits are bred in just as the herding instinct is bred into (most) collies. My mare is half quarter horse and her specialty loose in the field is full speed from a standing start and just stopping in no more than two strides. If my sister's little mare comes down the field full gallop she has to stiffen her legs and slide for yards to stop. Mine just stops. Until I had her I hadn't appreciated how much is breeding as opposed to training. Do keep us updated on this mare's progress, I think it will be very interesting.
 

abbijay

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Heavy horses are the best! I'm on my 3rd one so watch out they are addictive...
However if they are not correctly handled they can very quickly become dangerous, as Mouse's sharer found out. A 12.2 welshie that kicks out is unpleasant, a 17hh+ heavy horse is potentially life threatening! They are bred to work and therefore actually need quite a bit of mental stimulation to keep them on the straight and narrow. Once they learn to go forwards very few of them are actual kick along plods. There is no reason they can't become decent dressage horses - all 3 of mine have BD points to their name. The suppleness and bend takes a while to establish and cannot be rushed and they are often naturally into the ground (not downhill in conformation necessarily but in their way of going) so teaching them to come from behind and upwards is more important than a lot of light horses but if you establish the clear principles from an early stage they can do it all.
Keep us updated on how things go!
 

OrangeAndLemon

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They absolutely can!

They need to be bold and brave. A nervous heavy can be hard work but most want to see the world, enjoy new surroundings and love new experiences. When they lift and collect into an outline the feeling is amazing, everything tends to feel slow and easy. A happy shire can be very bouncy in trot, I get lots of opportunity to practice light seat when my friends shire is in a happy bouncy mood (no chance of sitting or rising to that...her big happy trot is the closest she's got to unseating me 😆)
 

smolmaus

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So excited to follow this thread AE!

The only Clyde I've properly known was such a complex horse. She came into the sanctuary at 15 after being basically left to run feral for 10 years and she was the most switched on, responsive horse I ever met. Responded to any tiny, unintended cues immediately, like a real mind reader. Except for "no i dont have time to scratch you" 😂 She taught me so much.

She could have been the horse of a lifetime for someone if she had a real chance before her health problems from her previous neglect became too much to bear so I'm glad Mouse does have that chance with you. I hope Angel goes with you both.
 

abbijay

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Was Asterix loaned from Cumbrian Heavy Horses? If so, I think I may have ridden him! Absolutely gorgeous boy, and so much fun.
Yes, that's him. He is a lovely boy but he didn't half worry about life. He is another who at one stage wasn't treated very well and it definitely had an impact on him.
 

Ample Prosecco

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4 weeks on..... Mouse is making steady progress. We have much more forward though she still tends to lean on the bit in downward transitions and kind of grind to a gradual halt. She bends, turns, yields etc. We had our first canter! The ground shook!!! I have taken a 5 minute clip of video for an online challenge so here it is if anyone wants to see Mouse in action. When she comes into a frame and uses her hind end the feeing is great. But she is still very hard work to keep going for long.

Also I know my hands are awful and my aids not always clear. I'm not claiming to be a good rider and my dressage is my weakest area. BUT I am significantly improving the horse. And the owner can't afford a pro to school her and can't do this herself. So we are muddling along as best we can. I am posting a 'normal flawed rider with many faults' video in the hope that this is a safe thing to do. We shall see.....

I wish I had video of the first ride. It was comically awful. I have never sat on a supposedly backed horse that simply had no idea what any button meant! All she knew was a few steps in a straight line at a time. No idea who backed her and what they did but she literally knew nothing. Joe has been brilliant with her, teaching me how to teach her. Looking forward to getting the basics in place a bit more and then giving an Intro Test a go.

 

DressageCob

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She's so cute! I don't know how you cope with those jockey length stirrups on a chunky monkey 😂 I love a heavy horse. There's a couple of shires near me that I sometimes see out doing dressage and they are awesome.
 

Surbie

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She's really sweet! You look TINY up there. 😄 My stable neighbour is a Shire cross, also 6 and doesn't seem to want to stop growing either. He's an absolute mountain and it's a good job he has such a nice nature.
 

Bradsmum

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Well done on taking her on, I’m sure her owner must be very grateful. She is rather nice so I hope it all comes together for you all. Let’s not forget Adorable Alice’s mighty Ted who did some dressage rather nicely.
 
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