Shock as VOSA changes its mind on horsebox regulations

Have posted this elsewhere - Spoke to VOSA and Driving Standards Agency on Friday(as VOSA say it is not them!) but both say the H & H article is inaccurate, this does not apply to private individuals and they gave example of teacher driving school minibus (they are full time teachers not minibus drivers) therefore drivers hours regs are not applicable have asked VOSA for WRITTEN clarification but they say they will contact H & H with a view to correcting the article. The drivers hours rules will therefore only apply to business use and the legal definition as printed in H & H applies to business users only
 
Hopefully I can clarify some of the points raised in the article and this forum thread and get rid of some of the rubbish and misinformation written.

Firstly, the Recording Equipment (proper name for Tachographs) Regulation and EU drivers Hours rules have been around for some 24 years. Yes, the drivers hours rules changed in April 2007. The major change that has caused all the panic here is that 'private use' of a vehicle is now limited to a Maximum Permissible Mass (MPM) of 7.5 tonnes (including that of any trailer drawn).

Starting at the beginning, if the MPM of a vehicle (including a drawn trailer) exceeds 3.5 tonnes, then the driver comes under the control of EU drivers hours rules and a tachograph must be fitted and used, UNLESS the vehicle / it's use is exempt from the Regulation. I have a Shogun with a two axle Equi-Trek, the MPM of which is 6.2 tonnes, remember, for drivers hours rules, it is what is on the 'Plate' (manufacturers or Ministry) that counts, not what the vehicle actually weighs on a weighbridge. It doesn't matter if the vehicle is laden or not, if MPM exceeds 3.5 tonnes you are subject to EU drivers hours UNLESS exempt.

The important bit contained in Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006 is Article 3.(h) which says;

<font color="blue"> 'vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum
permissible mass not exceeding 7,5 tonnes used for the
non-commercial carriage of goods'
</font>

This means that provided that the MPM of the vehicle (or combination, if towing a trailer) is 7.5 tonnes or below and you are carrying goods for non commercial reasons you are exempt the application of the Regulation. Hence I don't need to fit a Tachograph to my Shogun nor do I come under the EU drivers Hours rules. The same goes for all those who have a 7.5 tonne horsebox and carry horses for non commercial reasons. However, should I decide to set up a parcel delivery service and use the Shogun and trailer for that, I would not be able to claim the exemption and would have to fit a Tachograph and use it. However, if I was using the trailer at weekends to transport my own horse I still wouldn’t need to use the Tachograph. I could count my weekends out with the horse as my weekly rest period from my commercial driving during the week as I’m freely disposing of my time and my vehicle combination is exempt the EU drivers hours rules. Did anyone say working this lot out was easy????

What changed in April 2007 is that the use of vehicles by a private individual where the MPM exceeds 7.5 tonnes is no longer exempt from the European drivers hours rules. The driver, even if they are transporting their own property will be bound by the limits on daily, weekly and fortnightly driving and be required to take daily and weekly rest. In the majority of cases it is the requirement to take weekly rest that will be the issue. The Regulation requires that a driver of a ‘controlled vehicle’ shall start a weekly rest period, in which ‘they are freely able to dispose of their time,’ no later than six 24 hour periods since finishing the last weekly rest period. The weekly rest period is 45 hours although in alternate weeks this may be reduced to no less than 24 hours, but you have to ‘pay back’ the reduction. The difficulty with this is that if you work during the week, doesn’t matter what the job is, you cannot take the rest period as you are not able to ‘freely dispose of your time.’

Not sure that VOSA (or the Police) have changed their interpretation of the law as the Regulation is clear, if the MPM of the vehicle exceeds 7.5 tonnes then even if its’ use is ‘private’ it will come under the control of EU drivers hours rules. The Regulation has ‘caused problems’ where regular HGV drivers were volunteers within the Reserve Forces or held positions within the Retained Fire Service. The situation with the TA has been resolved to some extent by a recent Commission Decision, the Fire Service situation is currently being discussed.

Two points to bear in mind if you use a vehicle that comes in scope of the EU drivers hour rules, you must use the Tachograph that is fitted, that instrument needs to be correctly installed, calibrated and fully operational. Also you must be able to produce, when requested by the Police or a VOSA Examiner records for the current day and any days you drove on in the previous 28 calendar days.
VOSA produce a booklet about EU drivers hours and tachograph usage, you can download it from: http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/re...nd%20Europe.pdf or get a copy free from your local HGV Test Station.

Apologies for the long post but it is a complicated area of legislation. Just because the use of the vehicle is exempt Operator Licensing does not mean it will be exempt Tachographs and drivers hours
 
Great and very helpfull thanks.. that clears it up for me
so an hgv is to be avoided at all costs now for most folk.. its a shame but its just not worth the hassle, is there anywere else in the world as regulated as europe and are we beter off or safer than say the USA
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and if a vehicle IS fitted with an operating Tacho, then even goig 200 yds up the road to fuel up needs a NEW Tacho put in to record it movement and mileage.

and yes, i too know of people who have been prosecuted
 
Quick question - I assume it does not matter what your job is? So if you do an office job you cannot drive an HGV at weekends? Or does this only cover people for whom the main purpose of their job is driving?
 
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Quick question - I assume it does not matter what your job is? So if you do an office job you cannot drive an HGV at weekends? Or does this only cover people for whom the main purpose of their job is driving?

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Basically it doesn't matter what your job is during the week for example; teacher, civil servant, bank manger, dustman, firefighter, burger flipper or vet. If you drive a vehicle subject to the European Drivers Hours rules you must have a weekly rest period. How much driving you can do at the weekend will depend upon your weekly employment.

Remember, these rules do not apply to folk using vehicles where the permitted weight is less than or equal to 7.5 tonnes and the vehicle is used for non commercial transport.
 
Ok, that makes sense, even if it seems a bit unfair. I only ask as whilst I only own a 7.5t lorry, I have a full class C licence.
 
Also, i said above, if you are the owner of the yard and driving the vehicle then you can claim any days when not on the tacho were 'rest days' you after all will be filling in the paperwork required for staff hours etc. Your groom will have at least one day off a week which should be in their contract. However the reason that a groom migth not be able to drive even if 'just' doing yard work id that i believe the hours regulations says 'rest from work of any kind' and grooming the rest of the week woould be like working in the warehouse for a delivery driver. They might not actually be driving, but a) cannot freely dispose of their time and b) are obviously working for that employer so any time hours transgressions are easily checked.
it is not good but frankly there are too many people taking liberties with big trucks. and while i agree a small one is capable of just as much damage if badly driven, the bigger the vehicle the less time you have to react, as they do not respond as quickly and the less room you have for making errors.
 
I agree L - but there are loopholes, like my truck is a 7.5t but is a downrated 10t - so theoretically no better/worse than an HGV but not classed as one so exempt from regs. And I did a lot of driving in the summer for my job - which was when I was using the lorry most - so could easily do lots of driving in the week then drive the lorry at weekends, and that was fine.

I fail to understand how someone who is a sales rep and does a thousand miles a week in a car is more safe driving a 7.5t lorry at the weekends than say a groom who has mucked out all week and so cannot drive the yards 10t lorry to an event.
 
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I agree L - but there are loopholes, like my truck is a 7.5t but is a downrated 10t - so theoretically no better/worse than an HGV but not classed as one so exempt from regs. And I did a lot of driving in the summer for my job - which was when I was using the lorry most - so could easily do lots of driving in the week then drive the lorry at weekends, and that was fine.

I fail to understand how someone who is a sales rep and does a thousand miles a week in a car is more safe driving a 7.5t lorry at the weekends than say a groom who has mucked out all week and so cannot drive the yards 10t lorry to an event.

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Its because most of the recent rules have been drawn up by europe by unelected buracrats with little or no real common sense who have to keep doing it to justify their exsistance so we have rule after silly rule ..how much more damage will we let europe do to our way of life and bussiness ????? does anyone see any benifit from mebership except the MEP s on the euro gravy train...we seemed to be able to make up laws and had a stable democracy for the last few hundred years before the EU... what a mess our poor little country has become
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I hope this helps ... a couple of friends of mine have set up a website to help horsebox drivers out. He's a transport manager and totally up to date with the new legislation. We had a look on a number of sites, and on many the information is just as confusing as in the article or, even worse, totally out of date.

http://www.horseboxregs.co.uk/

Any feedback on whether you find it useful would be brilliant!
 
I also do not believe you can safely travel 3 horses in an under weight vehicle &amp; remain under the weight. As a HGV driver that passed a test many years ago I seem to remember that it is not strictly about overall weight, but axle weight. I have only skimmed through this thread but do not remember seeing this mentioned. So can anyone please educate me &amp; let me know whether I have lost my marbles or whether a box is dependant on weight over each axle? I feel this is an important piece of information as most horses are transported over the back axle &amp; not the front.
 
No you're right FRESHMAN - a friend of mine got pulled over and had to rearrange the horses in the back so the biggest was in first...
Kate x
 
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I also do not believe you can safely travel 3 horses in an under weight vehicle &amp; remain under the weight. As a HGV driver that passed a test many years ago I seem to remember that it is not strictly about overall weight, but axle weight. I have only skimmed through this thread but do not remember seeing this mentioned. So can anyone please educate me &amp; let me know whether I have lost my marbles or whether a box is dependant on weight over each axle? I feel this is an important piece of information as most horses are transported over the back axle &amp; not the front.

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Not sure what you mean by under the weight?? a 7.5 gross ??? and yes a well built one will easly carry 3 sadly there are a lot that have been built by men who pleasure themselves.. and use the wrong materals and construction methods ie loads of thick ply and mdf instead of lightweight ply and alloy, and yes axle weights are important and yes you can be done for axle overloading even if the total isnt over 7.5 ton.. dito on the build, axle placement is important , if the back wheels are to far forward it can overload the back axle if they are to far back the front axle can be overloaded esp if it has a luton, As a rule on say a 3 horse lorry its best if its built so 1st horse is in front of the axle 2nd over it and 3rd behind... hope this helps
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So at the risk of "repeating myself" is it about overall weight or axle weight? There is a huge difference. This point does not appear to have been raised. As I understand it a horsebox is not allowed to carry more than a certain percentage of it's gross weight behind the back axle. (60% springs to mind) Unfortunately that is where the majority of the weight is carried when horses are loaded.
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So unless you have a simple 3 horse waggon with no living whatsoever it will be over 7.5 Gross weight. Have you considered the safety issues when recommending lightweight build. ie ply &amp; alloy. Would it stand up to much with a difficult horse or god forbid a road traffic accident?
 
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So at the risk of "repeating myself" is it about overall weight or axle weight? There is a huge difference. This point does not appear to have been raised. As I understand it a horsebox is not allowed to carry more than a certain percentage of it's gross weight behind the back axle. (60% springs to mind) Unfortunately that is where the majority of the weight is carried when horses are loaded.
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Two points... firstly legaly there is a plate in the cab which will show the maximum alowable weights on front axle(1), back axle(2) a total laden and the train weight( any trailer and the lorry) these must be complyed with .. Then there is load distrbtion.. a vehicle must not be loaded as to cause a danger to itself or other road users, im sure that could apply to a badly designed lorry, For instance when it was loaded it was making it tail heavy and taking weight of the steering axle because the wheelbase is too short..too much overhang.. Or the other way, too long a wheelbase so excess weight is imposed on the front axle , hope this helps...
 
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So unless you have a simple 3 horse waggon with no living whatsoever it will be over 7.5 Gross weight. Have you considered the safety issues when recommending lightweight build. ie ply &amp; alloy. Would it stand up to much with a difficult horse or god forbid a road traffic accident?

[/ QUOTE ] what rubbish,there are plenty of 3horse lorrys with full living that have a 2 ton payload,oh and how do you think a aircraft is built , a modern car perhaps and a cattle lorry are they not built very strongl
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alloy is very strong and why would it matter about useing light weight materials in the living, you only need to add strength to the horse area and you could make that very strong with alloy , www.tristarhorseboxes.co.uk or www.abihorseboxes.co.uk
 
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