Shock collars, anyone used them?

[Enfys]

3 months ago we re-homed (from a tiny city apartment, no yard, new baby) a 4 yo GSD bitch (fixed) nice nature, boisterous full of energy, and a total city dog. Rural setting, own land, thousands of acres of forest 60' from the back door, animals etc, so understandably a pretty alien place at first.

She wants to kill my cats and has attacked the horses, and I mean attacked - obviously this is a total deal breaker and she will have to go to GSD rescue if I can't sort it permanently. I can't, and won't, keep catching 5 outdoor cats and bringing them in twice a day, and obviously the horse thing could have horrendous consequences.

She is incredibly strong and probably only weighs about 40lb less than I do, I can't hold her, tried all the usual heel work (which she is actually good at but still very strong ) choke chain she runs through, those god-awful spiky collars same thing (thankfully, I really hated that) so finally in desperation I got a shock collar.

She has turned from potential killer mutt into "anything you say Mom, look, I am at your heels, right here" (even walking in with the horses - who, quite understandably think she is a wolf and want to kill her) and I have only ever beeped her, never ramped it up to vibrate or zap ...

so, sorry for the essay, I thought I'd try to answer the things you might ask, what I really want to know is if anyone has used one, do you always keep it on when exercising in conditions where lapses may occur, or do you take it off and see what happens?

I only put it on when we go out (and bizarrely she seems quite happy to have me put it on - although it does of course indicate that we are going out) and take it off as soon as we get back.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I haven't used the collars but we have electric fencing round our yard to keep the dogs away from the sheep. Without the electric, they jump at the gates and fences and are in danger of getting through, despite some pretty strong metalwork. The electric makes them jump and yelp but it only takes one, or at most, two zaps before they give it a wide berth.
If the only way the dog can stay with you is to stop her attacking behaviour and you are using the collar as a training aid, I can't see the problem tbh.

 

[Aru]

Depends on how smart the dog is and how strong the drive.

I would never trust one 100 percent as Ive seen plenty of strays and rta victims wearing the fences ones...the drive to leave the garden outweighted the fear of reprisal/shocks from the collar.
Ive also heard the stories of the dog sitting by the fence at buzz and then leaving when the battery has run down.

If I wanted to keep this dog I would get a run to keep her in when unsupervised tbh.

The risk:ratio would be to high to hope the negative reinforcement of the collar would work without supervision and someone to trigger it..shes not chasing shes is attacking...and shes large enough to do massive amounts of damage in a very short space of time.

As a training tool...Ive seen burns on the neck from pigheaded fools using then on equally stubborn dogs...and Ive also heard of miraculous behavioural changes...it very much depends on the operater and dogs personality tbh... a useful tool in the right hands but its just that a tool.

Personally Ive never recommended them....as they can sometimes be used as a shortcut for people to impatient to train the dog or manage their issues in a less severe way... most issues have an alternative way of managing them to electricution...but when its life or death I can see the temptation....

 

[honetpot]

I had a 'friend' who used it to torment his dog.
I have no experience of it myself but I would have thought a bit like clicker training the idea is to get them to respond to the command, not the threat of pain, which to a dog has to be if you ignore x command y will happen, not y may happen, but the dog has to be clear what the command is. My Rottweiler x got zapped by the electric fence and my helper just happened to be stood near her. Four months later she will still not go in the field with her.

 

[Starzaan]

I have. And it changed my life and my dogs! He is a rescue who was never let outside before he was rescued, and he used to just run and run and run.

Ten years on and I can call him off anything, he'll sit even if he's two fields away and I yell sit down at him, and he's having a lovely life off the lead. I haven't had to use the collar for years now, but my god did it change his life!

 

[PorkChop]

I have used one years ago in conjunction with an invisible fence. It worked with our two at the time, a Rottie and a Mastiff.

As long as you take the time to train then to it, I don't have a problem with them. What drives me round the twist are the people that plonk them on and expect them to transform their naughty dog, it just doesn't work like that.

My sister-in-law had a GSD and sometimes it would run through the invisible fencing, and it is certainly not a cure all. I know a couple of people that have used them on gundogs and it really turned them around.

Certainly in your situation I would keep the collar on at all times unless inside, because they quickly realise when it is not "on".

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Enfys, my youngest brother re-habs large dogs (I do mean very large too!)
They come with all sorts of issues and on occasions he feels he needs to use the shock collar.
On most, this does work as a training aid but obviously for the right dogs. However, he has one castrated male, which is now a permanent resident which could not be trusted off lead anywhere, was also very sharp with other dogs at home. After 8 months, this dog can now walk off lead in open spaces and the trust is building, however, the collar is always on and brother very careful to pick the right places to go.
Dog now co-exists with primary resident dane x mastiff (monster heavyweight lump).
He is just learning now about horses, as visiting my yard a few times a week.

This dog is around 3, has been re-homed too many times previously and has major trust issues. TBH, he was close to pts in the 1st month, but time has made a huge difference.

I don't 'like' the collar, but the practicality of use in well trained hands can work.

Keep an open mind & I hope you can work through it, but don't let dog out anywhere unless 100% on a 1 to 1 supervision x

 

[Teaselmeg]

I think the fact that she responded to the noise so dramatically, would suggest it is sadly not the first time she has worn a shock collar.

 

[Peter7917]

I have used one.

I have a dog who used to run up and hassle cows. A couple of well timed shocks sorted the issue. She doesn't do it anymore.

A friend has a dog who used to run down and kill deer. Again the shock collar has resolved the problem.

It's a quick fix. There are perhaps kinder ways to fix the problem, however the other ways take time and a strict consistency. A shock collar solves the problem in a matter of minutes.

I would use one again.

 

[Peter7917]

To add, the shock collar I have has shock levels from 1-100. I've only ever used it up to level 11. Ive shocked myself with it first to ensure it's not too harsh and although it makes me jump, I wouldn't consider it painful.

 

[Goldenstar]

I do know someone near here who uses them for problem dogs mainly for sheep worriers .
He has a field of sheep that he uses for training they have all been doing this for years .
He has a good success rate with sheep chasing .
He's a very experienced gentle calm man I would take a dog there without hesitation if I had an issue but it might be much harder to do yourself .

 

[paulineh]

I have used an E collar on the buzz and vibrate settings for deaf dogs. It helps them to know where I am.

I have also used one on a dog that chased sheep. Never very high on the shock side though.

Used for the proper reason and used correctly, they work well. They can save a dogs life.

But they are not a replacement for correct training.

 

[Bosworth]

ive used one on my friends labrador xbloodhound. He has recall............ but like many a hound he chooses when to use it. And if you turn your back on him for more than 5 seconds he has gone, and will not return for several hours. His nose to a scent and hes gone. So if he wears his shock collar you can buzz him, only on the vibrate, and he instantly recalls.

 

[Finlib]

http://gov.wales/topics/environment...re/pets/dogs/electronic-shock-collar/?lang=en illegal in Wales since 2010

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm saddened to see so many on here who seem to think that ES collars are acceptable.

There are many dogs which when pain is applied, will worsen in their undesirable behaviour. There was a young and very strong sheepdog, a few years ago and I amongst others tried to buy him. The idiot who owned him couldn't get a stop on him, and when he applied the cure to all problems, he deafened the dog. He was stone deaf by the time that his owner had finished with him, and ruined. Others felt as I did, but said nothing. I pointed out that he'd ruined an exceptional young dog — someone needed to tell the fool. It was his first and last sheepdog, so I understand.

I've trained a dog or two over the years, and I don't consider myself competent enough to use such devices, I never have, I never will and despite the success stories, I would strongly advise those who are deciding upon a last-resort, to think very carefully.

Alec.

 

[Finlib]

I'm saddened to see so many on here who seem to think that ES collars are acceptable.

There are many dogs which when pain is applied, will worsen in their undesirable behaviour. There was a young and very strong sheepdog, a few years ago and I amongst others tried to buy him. The idiot who owned him couldn't get a stop on him, and when he applied the cure to all problems, he deafened the dog. He was stone deaf by the time that his owner had finished with him, and ruined. Others felt as I did, but said nothing. I pointed out that he'd ruined an exceptional young dog — someone needed to tell the fool. It was his first and last sheepdog, so I understand.

I've trained a dog or two over the years, and I don't consider myself competent enough to use such devices, I never have, I never will and despite the success stories, I would strongly advise those who are deciding upon a last-resort, to think very carefully.

Alec.

totally agree So glad I live in Wales and will never have to see these in use .

 

[Mince Pie]

ive used one on my friends labrador xbloodhound. He has recall............ but like many a hound he chooses when to use it. And if you turn your back on him for more than 5 seconds he has gone, and will not return for several hours. His nose to a scent and hes gone. So if he wears his shock collar you can buzz him, only on the vibrate, and he instantly recalls.

That's interesting, my old man's recall is getting less reliable as he's getting older, I wonder if a vibrating collar would work with him...?

 

[Bosworth]

i would say, Ive only ever used them on vibrate, would never ever use them as a shock. And the vibrating collar may well work as they are used for deaf dogs.

 

[Mince Pie]

I'm saddened to see so many on here who seem to think that ES collars are acceptable.

There are many dogs which when pain is applied, will worsen in their undesirable behaviour. There was a young and very strong sheepdog, a few years ago and I amongst others tried to buy him. The idiot who owned him couldn't get a stop on him, and when he applied the cure to all problems, he deafened the dog. He was stone deaf by the time that his owner had finished with him, and ruined. Others felt as I did, but said nothing. I pointed out that he'd ruined an exceptional young dog — someone needed to tell the fool. It was his first and last sheepdog, so I understand.

I've trained a dog or two over the years, and I don't consider myself competent enough to use such devices, I never have, I never will and despite the success stories, I would strongly advise those who are deciding upon a last-resort, to think very carefully.

Alec.

Despite everyone here saying they use them on a vibrate setting? I would never shock my dog but am seriously considering getting a collar which vibrates to put on him as he recall is getting less reliable as he is getting older (now 10), turn your back on him for a second and he's half a field away so a vibration on his collar might well be the most effective way of getting his attention again, rather than whistling like a demented kettle.

 

[Moobli]

I'm sorry but people who say the collars do not cause pain are talking bull*****! They rely on discomfort and pain to modify unwanted behaviour. That is their primary purpose.

As well as the obvious welfare issues, another problem with a shock collar is that it only suppresses the behavior – it does not actually address the underlying reasons for the unwanted behaviour. It also has the propensity to cause stress, anxiety and confusion.

We know that dogs learn by association and so there is the very real danger of a dog associating the pain of the shock from the collar with something other than for what it was intended (ie horses and cats in this instance), or associating it with nothing specific which may then cause distress and fear in every day situations. It is also not unheard of for a dog to associate the pain from the collar with the target stimuli itself rather than its own behaviour, meaning the dog may become even more aggressive.

My personal view is that if you cannot train or manage (which might mean keeping the dog on a lead or long line and in a secure run when she can't be supervised) the dog without resorting to the use of a shock collar then you should probably rehome through a reputable GSD rescue.

I can, of course, see the temptation of a "quick fix", and especially when the dog is displaying dangerous and potentially life-threatening behaviour but personally I would rather have a long term plan to work towards and maintain a healthy and positive relationship with my dog than to suppress their behaviour through fear.

Wales have made the use of electric collars illegal due to the high potential for misuse and injury. I hope the rest of the UK follows suit.

Below is a very useful article that works for dogs in the same situation as yours. However, it does take time, patience and lots of repetition (and managing the dog in the meantime).

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-i-stop-my-dog-chasing/

 

[dollyanna]

For use with a deaf dog (because it has been mentioned a few times) you would be better off with a vibrate only so there is absolutely no risk of accidental shock. But you would also be as well off if not better teaching a reliable check in so the dog takes responsibility for keeping an eye out for you - this is much safer for instances of escape/battery failure/distance/accident. PM if you want more details. Even if you use a collar you should teach a check in too for safety.