Shocked and horrified!

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Brambridge04

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Just popped to yard to do eve feed, n rug check, and we have a new guy, a western rider, started chatting, telling her about issues with pony n bit n dentist coming in a few days, his solution, put it in, no matter how just get it in, and turn her out in it, let it become part of her!

I promptly and politely made my excuses a left, surely this has to be the most stupid idea ever in the history of humanity, and ive had some real blonde moments!
 
Surely she'd injure her self! i couldnt sleep knowing she was running round a field with a bridle and bit in! and i'd be up at crack of dawn to check she was ok!

Silly idea lol
 
Well this has been he advice I've received from English riders.
At work they put a bit in the horses mouths and leave them with it in for several hours and those are thoroughbreds,I thought it was the norm?
 
If the issue is with putting the bridle on then it wont make much difference how long it's in for, if it's just not used to it then I'd very carefully put in on - then pet the horse and take it off again. Then once it's used to having the bridle put on and taken off, it can be left on for an hour or so at a time for about a week. This way the horse can get used to the feel of the bit without interference from reins/humans etc (this will be why the cowboy said to leave it on overnight - typical American overkill though :-P)
 
Just a thought - if you had a 'thing' in your mouth that was only there for a short while each day (no matter how comfy or nice tasting, but then maybe it's not so comfy of tasty) would you mess with it?

It's not the first time this curious but logical suggestion has reached my ears, although I also think leaving a bit in overnight is fraught with danger!
 
what what what would this achieve - acceptance of the bit is from good schooling& quiet hands , . not only leaving a horse with a bit in to me is nothing less than torture ( imagine trying to eat with a metal bar in your mouth) but is dangerous beyond belief - i dont even leave a head collar on in field or stable. sorry i would love to put a bit in his mouth put a plate of steak chips mushrooms oion rings in front of him and say "enjoy"
 
Agree that daft, stupid, dangerous and downright cruel to turn out with bridle & bit in.

BUT, I seem to remember something from my youth (long time ago!) about the old-style horsemen used to "mouth" a horse and get it accepting the bit for the first time by doing something similar. They'd put a mouthing bit (and bridle) on and just leave the horse for a while, in the stable, to cham and chew and generally get used to the bit gently - and I remember hearing about this as being the best way to get a horse used to the bit.

But this idea that the OP has heard about: daft IMO. Is this a Parelli idea????!!!
 
Turning a horse out overnight with a bit in is ridiculous and cruel.

But lets not get carried away! Leaving a bit on in the stable for a while is common practice IME when bitting youngsters. I'm not talking about hours on end of course, but it really is the best way to mouth a horse. Has always worked for me :)
 
Oh, of course it's a Parelli idea. How stupid of us not to realise that every idiot idea every lame brained horse person comes up with, particularly if the person is wearing a cowboy hat, must be a Parelli idea. There must be a lot more Parelli followers about than I realised.

This is more common than we realise I think. I know of one quite respected dealer who will leave a horse in a stable with the bit in overnight, and one person who presents show equines (avoiding naming the breed so they can't be guessed at!) who was seen to have a horse turned out in the field with a bit in it's mouth. I have an old book by the famous show jumper Pat Smythe. She had a horse that didn't bend very well on one side. So she put his bridle in and tied his head round to that side and left him to "brood on woman's injustice to man" (if I remember the quote correctly) for some hours.
 
Haha, i saw him again today, and his horse, (who couldnt seem to get away from him quick enough) and he proceeded to say, and i quote

"u not bothering with a bit now then"

to which i responded, am waiting for dentist and will do it slowly for short periods, and not turning out like it, as 1. she could hurt herself, and 2. i dont like the idea, doesnt sound to make for a happy pony.

to which he said, u wanna do what i do, ride in a bitless bridle (think he said a bosal?? but i know Sweet FA about bitless bridles really....apart from a hackamore)

So the western style rider who rides in bitless bridle, is giving me daft ideas on bitting.......no thanks!
 
Brambridge04 said:
Haha, i saw him again today, and his horse, (who couldnt seem to get away from him quick enough) and he proceeded to say, and i quote

"u not bothering with a bit now then"

to which i responded, am waiting for dentist and will do it slowly for short periods, and not turning out like it, as 1. she could hurt herself, and 2. i dont like the idea, doesnt sound to make for a happy pony.

to which he said, u wanna do what i do, ride in a bitless bridle (think he said a bosal?? but i know Sweet FA about bitless bridles really....apart from a hackamore)

So the western style rider who rides in bitless bridle, is giving me daft ideas on bitting.......no thanks!
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hail to you Saint Bambridge...........
 
He is a nice guy, he just seem's like he wants to be "the expert" and im not sure if what he says in general is BS and he knows it, or if he genuinely doesnt have a clue...
 
Brambridge04 said:
He is a nice guy, he just seem's like he wants to be "the expert" and im not sure if what he says in general is BS and he knows it, or if he genuinely doesnt have a clue...
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whats one mans meat is another mans poison. Sadly no one way is perfect and some 'ways' are less perfect than others. I have known of worse and although I wouldn't allow it to happen to my filly, there are methods which aren't recognised by the BHS ( and co) but which are acceptable 100 per cent(and cruelty free) which work very well for other bodies. Why is it that we Brits seem to think that we are the only ones able to break/breed and compete equines? I am getting long in the tooth and only now am I realising that we are so up our own arses in most subjects that we cant begin to see others opinions or methods. Lets stop being so .....perfect?
 
A bosal is quite a sophisticated thing to ride in, if used correctly. My horse is a "bridle horse", which means that he responds softly to the bit and has good flexion, and we might progress to a bosal, I had a try in the summer. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosal
Some horsemen train in a bosal then a bit, but others do the reverse because you really need to know what you are doing with a bosal. The rope is wrapped above the heel knot to make sure that the bosal fits snugly and in the right place. Get this wrong and the horse ends up with a rubbed face. When you ride in a bosal you should only ever pick up on one rein at a time, so most "english" riders might want to avoid them, as this is a difficult habit to get into. So, sometimes, bitless isn't as simple as it seems LOL!
 
Fairynuff said:
whats one mans meat is another mans poison. Sadly no one way is perfect and some 'ways' are less perfect than others. I have known of worse and although I wouldn't allow it to happen to my filly, there are methods which aren't recognised by the BHS ( and co) but which are acceptable 100 per cent(and cruelty free) which work very well for other bodies. Why is it that we Brits seem to think that we are the only ones able to break/breed and compete equines? I am getting long in the tooth and only now am I realising that we are so up our own arses in most subjects that we cant begin to see others opinions or methods. Lets stop being so .....perfect?
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lol I'm with you on this one (and I am a BHS-y sort but I've been around a while and seen many workable alternatives):)

Personally I wouldn't turn a horse out in a bit, but nor would I leave one in a stable with food, and I don't subscribe to the "leave a horse with its tack on in the stable for a couple of hours every day for a week" school of backing horses either.

However, if I had a guy like this on my yard, I would be learning as much from him as I could, and sorting the good from the bad in my own mind.

A couple of years ago a colleague and I were asked to teach a group of exchange students over from North Carolina for a week - I am fairly sure we learned as much from them about the way they do their horses as we taught them about the way we do ours. One of them showed Tennessee walking horses, and while I am not about to start strapping things to my horses' feet, it was fascinating to learn more about what they do.:)
 
Fairynuff said:
whats one mans meat is another mans poison. Sadly no one way is perfect and some 'ways' are less perfect than others. I have known of worse and although I wouldn't allow it to happen to my filly, there are methods which aren't recognised by the BHS ( and co) but which are acceptable 100 per cent(and cruelty free) which work very well for other bodies. Why is it that we Brits seem to think that we are the only ones able to break/breed and compete equines? I am getting long in the tooth and only now am I realising that we are so up our own arses in most subjects that we cant begin to see others opinions or methods. Lets stop being so .....perfect?[/QUOTE]

Well said, all of it.

There is an old phrase "more than one way to skin a cat"

I wish people would climb off their high horses about western training in particular, if it was western riders criticising about 'English' training methods then you'd be bleating about it loudly enough.

Yes there are some methods that differ, but isn't there in everything, everywhere? The trick is to take what works for you, regardless of whether it comes from a round pen in, say, Wyoming or the plains of Outer Mongolia.
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arrgh leaving the bit in for silly amount of time just makes them not want to have it in even more!

my arab was a fussy bitter (well - fussy everything really as they are) and when i was young and naive that what i did - fought with him, got the bit in and left him with it in till i rode and turned out.

moved yards and the yard agony aunt (still my official adopted aunty 6 years on) spent a few hours with me and my horse, honey on the bit, putting it in, out, in out, untill her was taking it with ease. next day we did the same, then i walked him out in hand for 20 minutes - bit out good boy.

next day same again , walked in hand, and then a bit more in out.

he began to learn that no matter what, that bit was coming out.

never again after that did i have a problem bitting him.

its just time and patience and understanding.

now silly american cowboy's forceful ways!
 
elsazzo said:
sounds like he just doesnt have a clue! lol
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;) Oh gah. Sorry, but that makes you sound so arrogant.
How can anyone say that without knowing the person in question? Apologies of course if you do.

Do you know everything about western equitation?
Putting the boot on the other foot, perhaps you would be seen as clueless too:(
 
I think the principle of allowing the horse time to get used to the bit is a sound one.
Leaving it unsupervised anywhere is a silly one.

I dont think it has anything to do with whether he rides western or not. Its just his idea.
 
I can see nothing wrong with his suggestion.
We had one that was incredibly cold backed about the saddle. He lived in an elasticated roller for months and then was turned out in an old saddle during the day for several weeks until he realised it was nothing bad. Result? An unrideable horse becams rideable
 
On one of the P2P yard i worked on we had a 4yo tb mare who had been in flat training and not treated very well she was very head shy as she had been beaten quite badly around the head area and she cope with anything being round her head it scared her silly the only way we work her through it was by putting her in a really really loose fitting headcollar all the time whether in or out and gradually (over about 6 months) getting her used to us being around her with nothing bad happening, we spent lots and lots of time in those 6 months just grooming her, when we did put the bridle on her we had to take it apart and put it back together on her as the thought of us pulling it over her ears was to much, after about 8 months in total she would stand for anyone to tack her up, so with gentlness and kindness it may take longer but the results will be longer lasting and you will end up at the end of it with a horse that respects and trusts you.
 
nikkiportia said:
Turning a horse out overnight with a bit in is ridiculous and cruel.

But lets not get carried away! Leaving a bit on in the stable for a while is common practice IME when bitting youngsters. I'm not talking about hours on end of course, but it really is the best way to mouth a horse. Has always worked for me :)
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Exactly what I'm doing (the stable bit, not the field bit!) In stable with nice bit in for 10 - 15 minutes whilst having a groom for first week and lots of fusses and bucket of grub when it comes off, adding a few minutes every day. I have also done away with the bridle and am using a leather chiffney strap to attach the bit to and putting this under the headcollar. He seems perfectly fine (luckily my lad has taken to this really well since he LOVES to chew things!)
 
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