shocked - mounted hound exercise

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spacefaer

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Does anyone else's hunt charge for members of the field going on mounted hound exercise?

Ours has been out with bike exercise for the last month - on specific dates - £10 for adults, £5 for children, with bacon butties at the end of the morning.

I've just discovered that they intend to continue the charge for MHE as of the middle of August......

I can appreciate that after last winter, hunts are feeling the pinch and have been paying for autumn hunting from the first meet. We never used to pay anything until 1st October for cubbing (as was). Do you think this new charge is normal or greedy??

I went out 6 mornings in a row last season - that would've been £60 for one week......

How are we meant to "make" young horses at that cost??
 
its still a bussiness we charge now and for autumn hunting we found people would come for free and then stop when subscriptions started £60 would go a long way to feed the hounds why do you wan't it for free and not pay when the fun starts !! the hunt dosn't run on fresh air there is a lot go's on in the background and you are priveledged to be going onto some of the farmers land not open to the public. You wouldn't go eventing or showjumping without paying a entry fee would you so why people think the hunt should be FREE is beyond me.
 
Hound excercise is just that its not for hunt followers really, but some hunts allow one or two, and yes you probably will have to pay.
 
Simsar said:
Hound excercise is just that its not for hunt followers really, but some hunts allow one or two, and yes you probably will have to pay.
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Back in the day, hound exercise was not for followers, and you could only come by invitation (or if you asked the masters very nicely :)). It's more difficult for the staff to exercise hounds properly if there are a load of followers anyway.

Nowadays it is another way of bringing it a bit of money for the hunt, and I see no problem with charging for it myself. I would happily pay £5 or £10 to educate my young horse for a couple of hours rather than £10 to take it round a little sj comp for the grand total of 2 minutes!:)
 
thanks for your responses

I'm not expecting to hunt for free and I'm perfectly aware that there is a huge cost in running the hunt

My point was that MHE used to be by invitation only and for only a few mounted followers as (has been pointed out) it's too difficult particularly on modern roads, to exercise hounds safely and effectively with hordes of people behind.

I have since discovered that this outing is on a Sunday and is being advertised in our local country store. It is therefore merely a fund raising exercise - more of a glorified hack with hounds - than real hound exercise. I have no problem with this as I know our hunt needs money :)
 
Our hound exercising is by invitation only(or ask huntsman very nicely). There are only 2 of us that go out regularly at the moment and that's only walking hounds not with horses.

It's funny but we don't encourage people to go out mounted hound exercising or autumn hunting. You would get quite a few on a Saturday but not many during the week. Also majority of people won't get out of bed that early!!!
 
£15 cap or £80 for an autumn hunting sub at ours (september til opening meet in november) i think its excellent value for money especially as all hunts are feeling the pinch
 
I have never heard of anything quite so abhorrant - charging for mounted hound exercise!

Who is this bucket shop hunt that are engaging in this wholly unacceptable conduct?

Hound exercise at about 6 ish should be a time when the master and huntsman - possibly not even the master but the huntsman and whips visit the farmers in turn and sometimes those farmers join them for the rest of the exercise?

BY INVITATION ONLY - as should be situation early morning - autum hunting -cubbing

The standards of hunting etiquette are clearly slipping up and down the country.

This forum provides a valuable insight into why and where hunting is degenerating.

Far far too many people are becoming obsessed with MONEY where hunting is concerned.

Yes, it costs a considerable sum yto run a hunt properly but if the overall conduct of 'the done thing' or 'not done thing' are diluted then those who expect to see the old established standards and customs will simply not particiapate or contribute - financially.
 
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hunteress said:
its still a bussiness we charge now and for autumn hunting we found people would come for free and then stop when subscriptions started £60 would go a long way to feed the hounds why do you wan't it for free and not pay when the fun starts !! the hunt dosn't run on fresh air there is a lot go's on in the background and you are priveledged to be going onto some of the farmers land not open to the public. You wouldn't go eventing or showjumping without paying a entry fee would you so why people think the hunt should be FREE is beyond me.
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"It's still a business" - Hunting is not a business it is a SPORT
 
I can beat that!!
I pay a full subscription compounded ie including cap, and have done so for the last 5 seasons. However I have just been informed that this season I will have to pay cap for Autumn hunting on top.....!
I totally understand the charge for non subscribers, or those that do not pay there subs compunded, and although appreciate why the hunt needs the money, still think it is taking the piss for those that pay for a subcscription whereby cap is supposedly included.
As with full hunting, I try to attend twice a week so will now have to stump up approx £160 extra!
 
Baggybreeches said:
^^^this^^^
Our hunt is a ltd company and therefore a business.
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A limited company - a limited company!

I suppose Masters will now be called Managing Directors or Chief Executive Officers.

As a matter interest are the hounds assets of the hunt (yes I know they are assets) but are they valued on the books as assets?

If so how much are they valued at?

I suppose you could reveal the name of this modern hunt and one could simply look up the details at Companies House.

A limited company, well I never..............
 
Judgemental said:
I suppose Masters will now be called Managing Directors or Chief Executive Officers.
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Well yes, I suppose you could say that. Being as knowledgeable about hunting as you are, you will be fully cognisant of the roll the Masters play, not only in the administration of duties, staffing and discipline - but also in the financial responsibilities they as individuals usually carry.

suppose you could reveal the name of this modern hunt and one could simply look up the details at Companies House.

A limited company, well I never..............
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Why do you continue to be so antagnoistic when discussing hunting? We know that 'tradition' is the most important thing for you. But long gone are the days when hunts are privately run - and yes they must be run as a business to survive.

Do your homework - that are several hunts that are limited companies - it is entirely in their interests to be run as such. They don't need assets - just turnover...........

You may find this interesting:

http://www.supportfoxhunting.co.uk/facts_figures.shtml

Particularly: Business structure -46% are sole traders, 32% partnerships, 21% limited companies.

The figures are very informative - citing that only about 57% of a hunts income comes from subscribers and members. So increase the charges to the members and you increase its revenue. It's a no brainer really - however difficult or dissapointing it may be for subscribers.
 
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Sidney said:
I can beat that!!
I pay a full subscription compounded ie including cap, and have done so for the last 5 seasons. However I have just been informed that this season I will have to pay cap for Autumn hunting on top.....!
I totally understand the charge for non subscribers, or those that do not pay there subs compunded, and although appreciate why the hunt needs the money, still think it is taking the piss for those that pay for a subcscription whereby cap is supposedly included.
As with full hunting, I try to attend twice a week so will now have to stump up approx £160 extra!
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everyone who pays a full subscription and compound cap get hound ex and autumn Hunting free i think if they had to pay that there would be an uproar feel sorry for you.
 
judgemental I see your point about it being a sport I really do however I also agree with the fact that it is also a business. Hounds have to be fed and so horses staff have to be paid upkeep of the yard and kennels etc costs alot and although I would struggle to pay for more than one maybe two hound exercises a week I would not begrudge paying. The hunt needs to be supported and I dont think it is a case of standards slipping I think it is a case of needs must!! Hunts have to adapt to the current climate and recession and the hunt in question is clearly trying to keep its head and hounds above water and out of trouble!
 
and furthermore judgmental i think that if you want to keep hunting in years to come you change your old fashioned views and 'go with the flow' if you stick to your guns the times will move without you. same for the hunt if they dont adapt they sink and Im sure you like myself and everyone else on this forum would rather have hunting at an extra cost than none at all.
 
I think hunting is becoming a total rip-off. My most local hunt wants £55 cap for a week day, the majority of which will be spent standing around doing nothing but chatting, you ususally can't even see the hounds.

As for being "priveledged to be riding on some farmers land", yes I am, but I don't have to be following the hunt to do so. Our area is covered with bridle ways, has a huge common (covered by said hunt) and as my OH is a farm contractor I have permission to ride on farms that do not have bridleways, so I am not going to pay £55 to stand around all day on land I can ride on anyway! FWIW some of the farmers cannot stand the hunt or hunt followers, they are not anti-hunting - just anti hunting people!
 
Yes yes I know all about the above and I am not being antagonistic, just genuinely surprised.

However about these hounds being assets of a limited company.

How are they valued, it really is most interesting because I have never come across this before, i.e. a hunt being a limited company.

Please, share..............
 
Judgemental said:
Yes yes I know all about the above and I am not being antagonistic, just genuinely surprised.

However about these hounds being assets of a limited company.

How are they valued, it really is most interesting because I have never come across this before, i.e. a hunt being a limited company.

Please, share..............
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A limited company does not need assets, just turnover. And for audit purposes I'm not sure that hounds are counted as financial assets.

But Google is your friend, Judgemental. Just look it all up.:rolleyes:

And what exactly are you genuinly suprised about? You've always alluded to the fact that you have connections and are in the 'know' as it were. Talk to your many contacts and colleagues. I'm sure they'll be delighted to educate you on the business dealings of their hunt(s).
 
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amymay said:
A limited company does not need assets, just turnover. And for audit purposes I'm not sure that hounds are counted as financial assets.

But Google is your friend, Judgemental. Just look it all up.:rolleyes:

And what exactly are you genuinly suprised about? You've always alluded to the fact that you have connections and are in the know as it were. Talk to your many contacts and colleagues. I'm sure they'll be delighted to educate you on the business dealings of their hunt(s).
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Well none have ever told me their hunt it a limited company. This is a first, nevertheless very interesting, perhaps you would care to name the hunt?

Then all one has to do is pop into www.companieshouse.co.uk find the company pay my £1.00 and have a look at the accounts, another £1.00 for the shareholders and another £1.00 for the last return.

So be a good chap or chapess and tell us which hunt?

Thanking you kindly for your anticipated help.

PS I my interest in the value of the 'hines' was purely academic
 
cooliorulz said:
and furthermore judgmental i think that if you want to keep hunting in years to come you change your old fashioned views and 'go with the flow' if you stick to your guns the times will move without you. same for the hunt if they dont adapt they sink and Im sure you like myself and everyone else on this forum would rather have hunting at an extra cost than none at all.
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The fact that somebody started this thread and entitled "Shocked - Mounted Hound Exercise" and the main thrust of their concern was that they are being charged, is indicative of the clear feeling that such traditional customs should remain. Ie. that if you happen across the hounds out on early morning exercise, then so be it and to be asked for money is in my world wholly unacceptable.
 
Given the parlous state of most hunt finances and the rising costs associated with running a pack I am hardly surprised that some have started charging for hound exercise. Our pack does not charge for pre-season hound exercise, unless it is a fund raising jolly on bikes with breakfast afterwards (which is a fiver per head). By the time autumn hunting starts followers are capped £15 until they pay a subscription when it gets thrown in free of charge.

Allow me if you will to approach this from a slightly different angle than the 'outraged to be charged' stance that started this. I am not going into the rights and wrongs of this approach; but I have seen for myself just how many subscribers think their contribution to the hunt ends when the cheque for their full subscription clears. I think it is quite sad that a large swathe of the hunt feel they don't need to support fund raising events off the hunting field, get involved with any stewarding or come campaigning for the election yet are the first to moan when hunting becomes ever more expensive. The consequence of this being that few people know who they are as they simply do not socialise off the hunting field.

It is also my opinion that it is all very well to day dream about the golden days of hunting and wish it had remained ever so. I challenge anyone who has ever read Surtees, Sassoon or similar not to have thought how wonderful an era it must have been to hunt in. I love all the old traditions of hunting, yet things have to progress and move on and there is sometimes little point in retaining a tradition just for the sake of it.

I'm going to go off at a huge tangent now, but whilst clearing country for the mink hounds this summer my master phoned a landowner who used to hunt with the otter hound pack that preceded us. She denied us permission to take hounds along the stretch of river in front of her land and as such meant the whole draw had to be abandoned. Her reason was that 'hunting is not what it used to be'. How very sad that a hunting stalwart denied our young followers the chance of drawing that river because of her perceptions of how things have changed.
 
Oh and I can think of at least two packs that are a Limited Company being the Ashford Valley & the Ledbury while others such as the Mendip Farmers have made their fallen stock enterprises into Limited Companies.
 
Judgemental said:
A limited company - a limited company!

I suppose Masters will now be called Managing Directors or Chief Executive Officers.

As a matter interest are the hounds assets of the hunt (yes I know they are assets) but are they valued on the books as assets?

If so how much are they valued at?

I suppose you could reveal the name of this modern hunt and one could simply look up the details at Companies House.

A limited company, well I never..............
Click to expand...
It's The Holcombe and if you like I will furnish you with the company registration number. I think the reason they became ltd was to do with insurance and liability issues. And in response to the obnoxious comment about the book value of our hounds, I will do my best to find this out tonight at the supporters club meeting. I think it's important to modernise in order to survive. 2 seasons ago I was very very troubled at the changes within our hunt, however the new administration has proved to be a breath of fresh air. They are more business like but this has given the hunt the opportunity to flourish, most notably with huge success at hound shows.
 
Would certainly be interesting to know whether they just attribute a figure for the hounds or whether they get into issues of depreciation as they age. In times gone by of course valuing them would have been easier with the Rugby Hound sales giving comparable prices.

It is a sensible and more common option for hunts that do not have bottomless income streams to become limited companies or revise their business structures so they may take advantage of the tax breaks. Who cares if it isn't the traditional format if it achieves the aims of the hunt, which should primarily to keep operating.
 
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