shocked - mounted hound exercise

combat_claire said:
Would certainly be interesting to know whether they just attribute a figure for the hounds or whether they get into issues of depreciation as they age. In times gone by of course valuing them would have been easier with the Rugby Hound sales giving comparable prices.

It is a sensible and more common option for hunts that do not have bottomless income streams to become limited companies or revise their business structures so they may take advantage of the tax breaks. Who cares if it isn't the traditional format if it achieves the aims of the hunt, which should primarily to keep operating.
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Combat_claire you are an absolute star, in fact positively brilliant because that is exactly what I was getting at, viz The Rugby Hound Sales for example.

There is clearly a value upon a hound and it is not unreasonable to suggest that a hunt that operates as a limited company, would consider the hounds to be assets and therefore a value has to be made.

Therefore one simply wondered from an academic point of view how the valuation was made.

It is very difficult to value hounds although it was common practice in the 19th century and whole packs were sold at phenomenal prices.

You see, is a pack that trail hunts and is stready to the trail nowadays, more valuable than a pack that is easier to hunt after Charlie - I stress for example in the latter case.
 
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marmalade76 said:
I think hunting is becoming a total rip-off. My most local hunt wants £55 cap for a week day, the majority of which will be spent standing around doing nothing but chatting, you ususally can't even see the hounds.

As for being "priveledged to be riding on some farmers land", yes I am, but I don't have to be following the hunt to do so. Our area is covered with bridle ways, has a huge common (covered by said hunt) and as my OH is a farm contractor I have permission to ride on farms that do not have bridleways, so I am not going to pay £55 to stand around all day on land I can ride on anyway! FWIW some of the farmers cannot stand the hunt or hunt followers, they are not anti-hunting - just anti hunting people!
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enjoy then we are all different maybe you are privelaged and thats what you prefer to do x
 
I just find it very sad that those who purport to be hugely committed hunting people are begrudging the Hunt some chance to have help with expenses when every penny counts for us all, them included.
Sometimes, your subscriptions don't come close to the actual running costs but they can only charge what people can pay so they have to rely on functions in one shape or another to help meet those costs; hound exercise could well be one of their functions to do that. Put it this way, you'd be mighty peeved if hounds weren't fit enough at the Opening Meet and beyond and wouldn't you like to know that you have helped get them to peak fitness let alone the pleasure of watching hounds, learning to get to know them well and the camaraderie which can happen on hound exercise? It's all part of hunting, hunting doesn't just happen at Opening Meet, there's a lot of work involved before that day and If that involves you putting your hand in a pocket for a tenner any morning you can go, well, it's cheap at half the price for the pleasure it can bring plus of course, it's an excellent way to get either yourself fit if using a bike or your horse so killing two birds with one stone.
 
Personally I have no problem with hunts charging for hound exercise. I used to go Bloodhounding and they have hound exercise meets because they don't have Autumn hunting. It was a few years ago now, the cap for HE was £10-£15 and there would be far more out than for hunting proper. There would be 100 or more for HE, and as little as half a dozen for hunting. This could be because most can afford to spend £10-£15 but not £50 plus. With the Bloodhounds a full sub of £650 would cover all HE and hunting with no extra field money, but they did only hunt once a week. Excellent value for money IMO.
 
Harper_Gal said:
No, hunts are businesses! What a stupid thing to say!
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I agree, just a shame that alot of hunts are so bad at business! Take a look at the wages of hunt staff around the country and the corner cutting that is now involved in many packs, not all, but many. Every single pack in the country relies on fund raising to survive no matter how large or small but the finances have got to run properly and returning to the same well of money every time is not on. You cannot keep asking your supporters to hand over money all year and expect them not to get hacked off with it. Fund raising ideas need to be innovative and to pick on every section of the locality to improve awareness, community and entertainment for all. I know how much it costs to run a pack of hounds and I also know that there are plenty of people who take, take, take from hunting and never put anything back but a bit of enterprise could yield a surprising amount of income without constantly hitting the same people again and again.
Having said all that I would think that alot of people who want to go hound exercise may not hunt and therefore contribute nothing to the hunt throughout the year. However, a great many people who hunt now no nothing about hounds, how it all works at the kennels etc and I would of thought encouraging people to be interested in the nuts and bolts of hunting and not just galloping about all over other peoples land would be excellent PR for the future.
 
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Judgemental said:
I see generally from Companies House Website they are all in fact and I quote: PRI/LTD BY GUAR/NSC (Private, limited by guarantee, no share capital)

Not quite the same as a limited company as such as a result they can do as they please with valuations etc
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I did clarify that it was for insurance and liability that the hunt became limited. As it was I didn't get to find out about the hound valuation last night, as it was a supporters club meeting. I do suspect though that the value of our hounds will increase significantly after success at Great Yorkshire and Peterborough.

At last night's meeting there was a division over whether to charge an entrance fee for some social events. The general consensus was that if we could provide free attendance then we would have a larger captive audience for fundraising schemes like raffles etc.

I would think the OP's hunt would get more people (if that's what they want!) by charging £5 for MHE, than £10, perhaps not double the amount in one morning, but I am sure it would encourage more people to try it and see?
 
Baggybreeches said:
I did clarify that it was for insurance and liability that the hunt became limited. As it was I didn't get to find out about the hound valuation last night, as it was a supporters club meeting. I do suspect though that the value of our hounds will increase significantly after success at Great Yorkshire and Peterborough.QUOTE]

Guess that would depend on how they actually hunt. They may look good conformation wise, but if they are not actually good hunters...................?
But I am sure they are!!
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Ditchjumper2 said:
Guess that would depend on how they actually hunt. They may look good conformation wise, but if they are not actually good hunters...................?
But I am sure they are!!
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Yes but isn't that the same with horses? I admit to being shamefully shallow and I would much rather have mediocre but pretty horses and hounds! After all I am under no illusion to think I am God's gift, unlike so many others.
 
Judgemental on the hounds = asset POV.

As an accountant, a companies assets on their balance sheet falls into 2 categories 1) Non-Current or fixed assets and 2) current assets.

A fixed asset in one that cannot be converted easily into cash and would be held within the business for more than 1 year, and cannot be sold on to a firms end users

A current asset is one that is held within the business for a period of less than 1 year, ie cash, stock etc things that are liquid.

Now, im not au faix with how long a hunt would keep its hounds for. And there are many other accounting policies that would be taken into consideration too but these really are the very basics.
In my experience I would treat a hound as a current asset as it is quite liquid asset ie. it could be sold on very easily for cash, unlike say a building. Also as being livestock they are not generally seen as "long term" as death illness etc can cause them to be very short term.

Therefore the value of the hounds (valued at lower of cost or net realisable value (what you could sell it for)) would sit on the balance sheet of the hunt as a current asset.
 
I have paid for hound exercise and autumn hunting for at least two seasons now, although I may not get out for it more than twice a week during term time. I don't really see a problem with paying, as in my view im getting what I'm paying for.
I guess the only way you guys can be angry is if your not satisfied with what it is your getting in return for your money? - In that case don't go!

Most hunts are no longer privatley funded, and so opt to run as a business but not necessarily to make profit. They do however have wages to pay, horse and hound upkeep and many expenses besides! The fact that many had such a bad year last, certainly the hunt I am with did (mainly due to the weather which we can't do much about!), so I don't think them beginning to charge a small fee to cover these costs is such a bad idea if it means that they will still be around in years to come!!

Hunting maybe a sport to the 'competitors' but for the people running 'the competition' if you like, its a business. Like many other sports. :)
 
LizzyandToddy said:
I have paid for hound exercise and autumn hunting for at least two seasons now, although I may not get out for it more than twice a week during term time. I don't really see a problem with paying, as in my view im getting what I'm paying for.
I guess the only way you guys can be angry is if your not satisfied with what it is your getting in return for your money? - In that case don't go!

Most hunts are no longer privatley funded, and so opt to run as a business but not necessarily to make profit. They do however have wages to pay, horse and hound upkeep and many expenses besides! The fact that many had such a bad year last, certainly the hunt I am with did (mainly due to the weather which we can't do much about!), so I don't think them beginning to charge a small fee to cover these costs is such a bad idea if it means that they will still be around in years to come!!

Hunting maybe a sport to the 'competitors' but for the people running 'the competition' if you like, its a business. Like many other sports. :)
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The Horse and Hound of 15 July 2010 has just passed across my desk and I read the details concerning The Festival of the Horse.

Frankly I was not impressed so far as the comments concering entry fees are concerned and all that flowed from the piece. Indeed the article was extremely critical generally and it all related to MONEY.

Yet again money has been 'overdone' and has tranished what was a VERY reasonable idea and project.

The same will happen with hunting.

Subscriptions should not be due in any hunt until 1 October.

I have never been capped out autumn hunting and as for a charge for hound exercise that is wholly risable. NAY DAFT!

Capping for autumn hunting is I suppose possibly reasonable but in my opinion it dilutes the whole essence of hunting.

LizzyandToddy are saying "I guess the only way you guys can be angry is if your not satisfied with what it is your getting in return for your money? - In that case don't go!"

Simply put another way folk 'won't go'.

My opinion, don't ask for too much financially and those who can afford it will likely make appropriate donations.

To be fair, it is a difficult balancing act but if everybody sticks to the old established customs - which is of course, the fulcrum upon which hunting exists - then folk will feel they are getting a fair deal.
 
LizzyandToddy said:
I have paid for hound exercise and autumn hunting for at least two seasons now, although I may not get out for it more than twice a week during term time. I don't really see a problem with paying, as in my view im getting what I'm paying for.
I guess the only way you guys can be angry is if your not satisfied with what it is your getting in return for your money? - In that case don't go!

Most hunts are no longer privatley funded, and so opt to run as a business but not necessarily to make profit. They do however have wages to pay, horse and hound upkeep and many expenses besides! The fact that many had such a bad year last, certainly the hunt I am with did (mainly due to the weather which we can't do much about!), so I don't think them beginning to charge a small fee to cover these costs is such a bad idea if it means that they will still be around in years to come!!

Hunting maybe a sport to the 'competitors' but for the people running 'the competition' if you like, its a business. Like many other sports. :)
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I so agree with you Lizzie. Yes, it would be lovely if one didn't have to pay for cubbing (I think we charge from 1st October) but in many cases, that is totally infeasible now and I'd rather they charged and survived, than perhaps have to fold because of money problems.
I feel that people like Judgemental could well be the kiss of death for hunting if they are not prepared to adjust their thinking to take into account the high cost of everything to do with running a hunt, like any other business; they need to wake up and smell the roses otherwise they'll be lucky if the only hunting they will ever see again is on curtains because they will have helped bring about its demise.
In the hunt supporters club when we have functions which are designed to bring in money to help the hunt in some way; we can count on the fingers of one hand just how many actual hunt subscribers/members who ride to hounds, come to them; they just do not seem to be aware that our functions are for their benefit too. If we don't make money, we can't pass it onto the Masters to help with purchases for the kennels or stables - and the staff can't and shouldn't be asked to work with tools not right for the job, it is unfair when they have a hard enough job already - (which I agree, in the old days, would have been the sole responsibility of the Masters but with the increased costs of just about anything, including insurance, this just isn't possible). Just this year, we have contributed nearly £12000 for among other things, fencing materials and replaced both a pick up for the kennels and a quad for our 'countryman'. If we hadn't flashed the cash, then subscriptions would have taken a huge hike; perhaps Judgemental would prefer that instead but many aren't in the position to pay more so charging for HE, seems a sensible alternative.
 
Judgemental, I am very sorry to say that your posts actually give me a headache. Please say what you mean instead of your cryptic, nonsenical comments and insinuations.
Unfortunately as vulgar as it may be 'money makes the world go round', whether that be feeding hounds and repairing kennels or buying hunt horses.
if people pay to visit parks, landmarks etc just to walk round then why would you expect to ride out with hounds for free?
 
Daisychain said:
Really????

I thought it was about pest control.......
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sport   /spɔrt, spoʊrt/ Show Spelled[spawrt, spohrt] Show IPA
–noun
1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors.
3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
 
It seems one of two of the the brethern do not agree with my views.

I am not going to argue or justfy.

I have always been told by the secretary what the cap is per horse at the beginning of the season and written a cheque.

If as some have suggest hunting is now a business, then presumably their hunt has done a forward projection of expenditure and that should be incorporated in the subscription equation?

So once I have given my subscription as far as I am concerned that is it, save for an emergency.

If the sub is x and folk can only afford part of x then it reasonable to give the secretary regular installments.

But all this faffing around on hound exercise and autumn hunting for a fiver or tenner here or there is self defeating.

Apart from anything else, if one is on a horse just up from grass, who wants somebody twitching a little leather bag in one's face or that of the horse, at 6:00 or 7:00 am. Ridiculious!

Also, conversation at that hour should be limited to "good morning". Otherwise inevitably the young hounds will lift their heads to listen to the various voices.

Hold hard a moment, I hear a cry of 'Old fashioned or what' - unless hounds have all developed a remarkable sense of modernity their fundamental scenting atributes will of those a hundred or two hundred years ago. Now come on be fair - yes, thank you for your unnanimous agreement.

That said, as I have been subject to some minor artillary, inflicting one or two rounds into my opinions.

Allow me to reply with the fact I always tip the huntsman and the whips after a good hunt - always.

Similarly at Christmas I always show my appreciation with significant munificence to all the hunt staff, except amatures.

Yes, I see a range of stiffies over the year for this that and the other fund rasing event and they are of no interest.

If it's £500.00 or a £1,000.00 or £2,000.00 per horse god forbid, then that should be the payment and only discourse concerning money on 1 October and/or any incremental 'arrangment' made over the season.
 
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i do agree with you-what a load of faff!! we are a registered hunt, 2 man band,(the committee was done away with years ago-too much in-fighting.)we dont have subs.but have a cap at horse meets-we do have a financial agreement with the farmers which works well.itis not a business bar being pest control-as for paying to go cubbing, never heard of such a thing!!
 
rosiefronfelen said:
i do agree with you-what a load of faff!! we are a registered hunt, 2 man band,(the committee was done away with years ago-too much in-fighting.)we dont have subs.but have a cap at horse meets-we do have a financial agreement with the farmers which works well.itis not a business bar being pest control-as for paying to go cubbing, never heard of such a thing!!
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I say Rosiefronfelen we have both hollared the hunted fox away.

Now a little fun for everybody.

Did you know hounds lift their heads to certain voice levels?

Mainly the bitches - I am talking about the hounds!

Indulge me. If you are on one side of a cover and can hear a conversation but cannot identify the individual - normaly amongst the ladies and a hound comes out and cocks his or her head or you see them standing in the cover listening, if you have an opportunity ride around to the otherside of the cover and identify the person or persons.

On future days seek out your hound and I guarantee that hound will lift their head when the same person is speaking.

Don't ask me to go into details as to why, other than certain octaves of a female voice are such that hounds will lift their head and listen but only to certain people. Normally the higher the voice but curiously enough seldom where children are concerned.
 
Judgemental said:
I say Rosiefronfelen we have both hollared the hunted fox away.

Now a little fun for everybody.

Did you know hounds lift their heads to certain voice levels?

Mainly the bitches - I am talking about the hounds!

Indulge me. If you are on one side of a cover and can hear a conversation but cannot identify the individual - normaly amongst the ladies and a hound comes out and cocks his or her head or you see them standing in the cover listening, if you have an opportunity ride around to the otherside of the cover and identify the person or persons.

On future days seek out your hound and I guarantee that hound will lift their head when the same person is speaking.

Don't ask me to go into details as to why, other than certain octaves of a female voice are such that hounds will lift their head and listen but only to certain people. Normally the higher the voice but curiously enough seldom where children are concerned.
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all i know is that yapping followers are my husbands pet hates, and he tells them to shut up,if they dont he'll move off to somewhere more remote!!
 
Maesfen said:
Don't start me off on one, can't believe J doesn't know the difference between cover and covert for a start. :eek: There's no excuse for bad spelling particularly about a sport you say you love.
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I am only an 'umble poltroon - what would I know about spelling but I know a thing or three about coverts and covers - and make good use of them when the opportunity arises!

By the way Rosie - if I may be so bold and familiar - QUITE

Yappy high pitched voices the bane of all good huntsmen.
 
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As usual a wide diversity of views and strong opinion...

For what its worth, I personally believe it that it makes good sense for a hunt to change with the times financially, to enable it to best survive in the current climate, as long as it doesn't lose sight of its aims and purpose. I am very traditional in that I enjoy to see well turned out riders who understand how to conduct themselves on the hunting field, there is a balance to be struck between providing a good day for the field and maintaining standards amongst the field as well as harmonious relations with the farmers, landowners and members of the public, some hunts achieve this effortlessly...others just don't.

A newcomer to hunting, I would hope, would leave the meet with a huge grin on his/her face, having enjoyed the countryside, seen the hounds work and met lots of new people, rather than had a dull day, been snubbed or ignored by everyone and paid a huge amount for the privilege...a sure way to guarantee that they will never come again. Sure I accept that not everyday can be fabulous, if hunting is to survive it needs to cling to the best of its traditions and standards, but be prepared to examine how they achieve the end, and ensure that newcomers are welcomed and existing members valued and included.

We all know of hunts riven by backbiting, petty bickering, with falling field size, losing access to land or struggling hopelessly to remain viable…often to an outsider looking in the reason is readily apparent. If we are to ensure that hunting is secure in the future then we need to take a long hard look at how we do things.

As an aside I have this year paid £100 cap, then been approached for a donation to the hunt staff, with a field of in the region of 180, as it happened we sat around for about three hours, I found the majority of the field to be stand-off ish, all in all the day cost me in the region of £280, when you include boxing to the meet, a hireling, paying my grooms cap etc. I did feel a little let down by the experience and wont hurry to go out with them again.
 
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