Shocking Upsetting News from Crufts

I think people are mad to leave their dogs where just anyone can walk by, it isn't really any different to just leaving them outside tesco, even if you were on your own and needed to pee I'd think you'd ask a neighbour to keep an eye.
Presumably if the person giving the meat knew how long the poison would take they weren't trying to 'nobble' him. I don't know how long it would normally take dogs to digest 'cubes' of meat though? - if they were still in the stomach and the poison was stitched in how had it been released, presumably enough had been. I think it is a bit confusing at the mo.
 
ester said:
I think people are mad to leave their dogs where just anyone can walk by, it isn't really any different to just leaving them outside tesco, even if you were on your own and needed to pee I'd think you'd ask a neighbour to keep an eye.
Presumably if the person giving the meat knew how long the poison would take they weren't trying to 'nobble' him. I don't know how long it would normally take dogs to digest 'cubes' of meat though? - if they were still in the stomach and the poison was stitched in how had it been released, presumably enough had been. I think it is a bit confusing at the mo.
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Yes I agree, somewhat confusing.

I have heard the vet confirmed cubes of beef in the stomach and owner only fed chicken.
Now as I understand it, the acids in a dogs digestive system are 3 or 4 times stronger than ours, and the whole process is very quick, which is why dogs can eat rancid meat etc without problem as its digested before it causes illness. After around 8 hours food is broken down and moves to small intestine.
So whilst traces of beef being found makes sense, cubes of beef 24+hours after the dog left the NEC sounds highly unlikely to me.
In fact I heard one report that the dog left on thurs and died on Saturday.

So many differing statements, I wonder if we'll ever hear the correct facts.
 
I had the same thought re food being digested. Gundog day was the Thursday and yes I think it was Saturday when the dog died, so find it hard to see how food was left in the stomach.
 
I am waiting for the full autopsy and toxicology report, a dog that happened to be at crufts has been poisoned, unfortunately dogs get poisoned a lot :(

My thoughts are just because he has been to crufts doesn't mean it happened there, I too believe that for it to be found in the dogs stomach it mist have been fed hours before death not a day.

Either way though, poor dog :(
 
Call me a cynic but I do wonder if these latter cases are just a case of dogs with upset tummies. Which actually is also quite worrying, if any sort of enteritis bug was around at a show like Crufts.
 
Just seen this on KC facebook page. Not that I believe everything the KC say!

The facts surrounding Jagger’s sad death are still being established and we must stress that any other unsubstantiated rumours about dogs being poisoned are just that at this point. There are any number of reasons why a dog may display symptoms such as sickness and should a dog fall sick there are vets at the show who will examine the dog in question and file a report. We can confirm that no vets have raised concerns about poisoning and there have been no official complaints from any owners at Crufts 2015.
We are aware that there are reports in the press regarding a number of breeds. If you have any information we urge you to come forward to report the matter as soon as possible by emailing press.office@thekennelclub.org.uk
 
So many differing stories going around. The media don't help, releasing things as if they are fact rather than hear say. I doubt we will ever hear what really happened.
Personally, I'm beginning to wonder if there is more to all this than the obvious.
 
there have been numerous cases of sickness and tummy bugs in dogs in and around my area - many dogs have been hospitalised where I work in the past month or so - I'm willing to bet that some of these "suspected poisonings" are just this. One woman I know had to withdraw on the day she was due to leave to go down as her wee bitch was ill. These things do happen.

The story about Jagger I'd heard early Sunday morning, the co owner of my bitch messaged me in a panic saying "make sure you don't leave alone for a minute, shake out the bed when you get back from the ring". Not that I'd planned to leave my bitch unattended but wouldn't have thought someone would booby trap the dog's crate while I was away - but you never know.

There are many stories going around, and fortunately many of them will be Chinese whispers. But this poor Jagger - hopefully we'll find out what really happened.
 
ribbons said:
Yes I agree, somewhat confusing.

…….. as I understand it, the acids in a dogs digestive system are 3 or 4 times stronger than ours, and the whole process is very quick, which is why dogs can eat rancid meat etc without problem as its digested before it causes illness. After around 8 hours food is broken down and moves to small intestine.
So whilst traces of beef being found makes sense, cubes of beef 24+hours after the dog left the NEC sounds highly unlikely to me.

……...
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My argument from the outset is that there have been so many anomalies and highly doubtful claims, that with what appears to be at best a deal of confusion, the veracity of the claims, even from the direct FB quotes, puts the whole question as to the dog being fed poison, WHILST at the NEC as highly unlikely, if not impossible.

If the owner's claims which they support with quotes from their Vet, prove to be without foundation, then the probability of a corrective statement will be unlikely. That's the way of the world, I'm afraid to say. Rarely in such instances, when false claims are made, does the claimant then stand up and say "Oops, sorry, we were wrong in our previous assertions"? 'Rarely', is the answer! :)

I'm no fan of Crufts or The Kennel Club, but they are both essentially British, they are Institutions, and the claims made, from the likely evidence available, are currently unjustified.

Regarding the suggested toxicology report, does anyone know how long it generally takes for them to be completed? Without such a report, supported by a qualified veterinary postmortem, the claims made must be open to doubt.

Alec.
 
Penny Less said:
Some people seem to think other dog owners wouldn't stoop so low as to poison a dog,... really ! This is a top dog show, and racehorses don't get doped or otherwise nobbled either do they
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I am not saying it would never happen but apart from the rare person within dog showing there is actually a lot of support amongst exhibitors, and dog showing does not attract the same level of gambling as horse racing and it does appear to be the gambling that motivates most 'interference' in horse racing.
 
This is a quote from vet Steve Leonard regarding Jagger.

"Obviously they have found a foreign substance in the dog's stomach," he said.

Human forensic techniques would probably be used to establish what the substance was, he said, as such testing went beyond what vets would normally deal with.

"Your heart goes out to the poor owner and what they must be going through," he said."


So it seems likely it will be a while before the full results are revealed.
 
Yes, I heard on the news that the vet who did the pm had said it was very unlikely anything administered had been at crufts.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Latest statement from the KC regarding poor Jagger.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/pre...h/kennel-club-statement-about-jagger's-death/
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Thanks for that, M_M. I wonder if the owners of the dog in question have retracted their claim that a slow acting poison was responsible and ingested at Crufts, as they claimed that their Vets had stated.

We would all have sympathy with the owners over the loss of their dog, but false claims should be adjusted by them.

Alec.
 
Bosworth said:
I agree Alex, and the other 6 owners who jumped on the band wagon and claimed their dogs had also been poisoned at crufts. Would appear to be their way of claiming their 5 mins of fame
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either that or bad cases of gastroenteritis that sent people in to a panic!

there have been lots of cases of it in my area before Crufts starte, and I know of a bitch that never went down because she was ill. So that's my theory.
 
I agree PnP, I think its more likely to have been gastroenteritis. Dogs were at Crufts from all over the world, heaven knows how many new bugs were brought in.
 
I don't know enough about poison to know how long it would be detectable in the system, but it was the undigested cubes of beef that rang alarm bells for me.

The cynic wonders about jagger's insurance.
 
MurphysMinder said:
……... Dogs were at Crufts from all over the world, heaven knows how many new bugs were brought in.
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You've raised another valid point. With dogs being brought in, and possibly carrying disease and in a variety of strains which would be unknown here, Crufts must be a hot-house for infection, I'd have thought.

Alec.
 
ribbons said:
I don't know enough about poison to know how long it would be detectable in the system, but it was the undigested cubes of beef that rang alarm bells for me.

…….. .
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Were the poison ingested of a fast acting type, as the Vet's reports now seem to suggest, then for the beef to remain, in an undigested state, then death would have followed the ingestion, rapidly and within hours, not days.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
You've raised another valid point. With dogs being brought in, and possibly carrying disease and in a variety of strains which would be unknown here, Crufts must be a hot-house for infection, I'd have thought.

Alec.
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I thought though that with fairly tight DEFRA regulations that it'd be a bit more difficult to get dogs in through without health certificates? Flea and worm protocol? vaccinations up to date?

Personally I don't worry desperately about it. Yes we expose our dogs to stuff but then how much do we expose to them without ever leaving our usual patch? Dogs and wild life can carry disease from outwith to our usual walking areas.

As I said before, GI problems were RIFE in my area, several dogs hospitalised and on drips for days. And we've seen the odd case of Parvo too. And that was before Crufts.
 
My lot got kennel cough a few years ago, without ever having come into contact with another dog! I was astonished, but it happens - any dog show is a potential hot bed of germs, it doesn't have to be Crufts, exhibitors compete internationally all the time, it is just that the general public only seems to know Crufts :)
 
Lévrier;12852112 said:
My lot got kennel cough a few years ago, without ever having come into contact with another dog! I was astonished, but it happens - any dog show is a potential hot bed of germs, it doesn't have to be Crufts, exhibitors compete internationally all the time, it is just that the general public only seems to know Crufts :)
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Yes, and people travel with their dogs too, just for holidays or whatever. So it's very easy for bugs to be passed on.
 
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