Shod or barefoot? Veterinary research help needed

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johardy09

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Hi everyone,

I'm a final year veterinary student at the Royal Veterinary College. I have two horses of my own, both of which I've managed over the years with a mixture of trimming and shoeing.

Throughout vet school I've become increasingly frustrated that we don't get taught enough about hoof management, and I feel that this is a really important area of knowledge as vets and farriers/podiatrists end up working closely with each other. That's why when I started thinking about a final year research project, I've jumped at the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic.

Over the next year, I hope to write a comparative study on the hoof morphology and conformation of hooves of shod and barefoot managed horses, so that I can make some conclusions over which method of management (i.e by a farrier or by a podiatrist) creates a "better" conformation. I've found there's very few papers published on this topic, and so I really hope to get this published within the next year.

The main reason why I'm posting this is because I'm trying to find people that may be able to help me find or provide horses for me to take data from. My criteria are as follows:
-Horse aged between 5 and 18
-On a shoeing/trimming cycle of 5-7 weeks
-Has been barefoot or shod for more than 18 months
-Is shod or trimmed by a qualified podiatrist or farrier.

All I need to do to collect data is take a few photographs and measurements of each hoof. In total it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

I'm looking to collect data from the 20th May 2013 for 4 weeks from horses either at the time of trimming/shoeing or in the couple of days just after.

I'm based in the South East, but I will be travelling around, so I'm looking for horses in Kent, East Sussex, West Sussex, Surrey, London, Berkshire, Bucks, Herts, Essex, Bedfordshire. Also, if there's enough volunteers I may also make a trip along the south of England from Kent to Cornwall, so if you're in any of these counties and are interested, please also get in touch.

I am really grateful for your time in reading this, and if you have any thoughts or think you might be able to help me in some way, I'd love to hear from you. I'll keep a close eye on my PMs!
 
Hey Jo, You can use our guys, ill check when the farrier is coming. We have 1 barefoot pony, 3 shod ponies and 2 shod horses within the age.
 
Out of your way in Wiltshire but got 10 including a remedial set and a range of 1 to 22yrs shod and un shod.
 
Would be worth revisiting your trimming criteria - two of mine have had virtually nothing off their feet for around 2 years, and there are many other self-regulating hooves out there. I have a strong feeling that these are the healthiest and best-conformed-for-the-horses-conformation hooves.
 
Agree about considering another category for hooves that self maintain. I have one thats always been barefoot and one thats been barefoot for 18 months, I'm probably out of your way in Somerset though.
 
have 7 year old, bare foot, never been shod, hacks out for 10-15 miles a day, based in somerset, how ever as other posts trimming cycle varies according to weather, season and work load
 
Great that you are looking at this but I must say that hoof management also includes horse management... diet, ability to move, exercize etc. The trimming and shoeing is a small part of it tbh. I really feel strongly that a whole horse approach is considered. Focus purely on hoof trim/shape/support is what has got us in this mess. It leads to the medical model of shoeing/trimming to make hooves functional. That is never going to work imho, you need to enable horses and hooves to be strong, mature and healthy.

ps. Apols, I may have misunderstood your criteria but my post stands in general.
 
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Please speak to Nic Barker at Rockley Farm - she'd be really useful to speak to and could definitely give you some contacts.

I'd offer my boy, but he's only been barefoot for 5 months.
 
I'd like to help but I don't think I fulfill the criterior.

Based in the NF, pony is rising five, has never been shod/trimmed except for one quick basic trim by farrier on the fronts as they were too long. The backs weren't touched at that time because she had a few "issues" about the first time with a farrier. But they should be done soon within the next few weeks but that could be delayed if you were interested. She's OK with her feet being handled now.

I would think the best thing for you to try would be contacting one of the livery yards that have a regular farrier coming and you would be able to take data from a few horses and you'd also have the records of their shoeing/trimming.
 
Thank you so much everyone for so many people volunteering (both through threads and PMs). It's good to see lots of people are interested.

As for self maintaining.... I know... and it's certainly something I'd like to do, but unfortunately my hands are tied if I want to publish. I need to make sure all my groups are as comparable as possible. So for that I need to make sure they're on the same management time period.

As for the whole horse, again this is a thing which I think is going to be difficult to control, as to be totally complete, I would need all the horses to be the same breed, and same exercise regime, and same daily routine, and same diet etc... so sadly I think the best I can do on this is ensure all my horses aren't massively abnormal in any of these ways! I'm going for the standard general riding horse model.

As for Rockley, Nic has been great so far. I contacted them a while ago and they were keen to get involved, and so I'm intending on sending another email soon to follow it up.

Again thank you so much for everyone volunteering. Please do pass this on to any horsey friends that might be able to help! I need all the help I can get. I'll keep an eye on my PMs :-)
 
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johardy09 said:
which method of management (i.e by a farrier or by a podiatrist) creates a "better" conformation. I've found there's very few papers published on this topic
Click to expand...

I hope this isn't quite what you mean :) ?

A farrier and a podiatrist will produce the same result on a barefoot horse as long as both know what they are doing, and there are plenty of farriers who do and some podiatrists who don't.

I take it from the rest of what you wrote that you actually intend to compare shod and barefoot, whoever is doing the trimming?

You might also be limiting the people who respond to you by using the word 'podiatrist'. Only two of the five trimming schools in the country call themselves podiatrists, the rest call themselves trimmers. I think you mean any trimmer, provided that they have a reputable qualification?

I have to rule myself out even though I would have loved to have been part of your study. I trim for myself and I have no qualifications at all.

But I wish you every success with the research, it is long, long overdue and we will be waiting for it with bated breath.
 
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I would love to offer mine. In Essex, trimmed every six weeks by qualified trimmer, in full work and sound, barefoot for a year and a half and I have photos going back to her last shoeing. She is 23 though. No good?
 
We have 5 barefoot horses but they're no good to you as they very rarely need trimming. I don't actually know anyone with barefoot horses that get them trimmed on a regular schedule like that because there are so many variables like weather, workload changes, diet changes etc.
 
I'd love to participate but fall outside your criteria - my mare is 20 and trimmed (by a farrier) every eight weeks. She was a competition horse and fully shod before I had got her aged 16. My farrier says she has pin-up feet and unshod is perfect for her. She's still in full work and very fit.
 
This sounds like it could be a very worthwhile study and I for one would be a much happier bunny if my vet had half a clue about feet.

However, what would concern me about your proposal is that barefoot horses who need trimming that regularly are likely to have "pretty" hooves, but far less likely to have hooves which are as functional as a barefoot horse in good work which needs less/no trimming. Therefore, won't you just be comparing the prettiness of shod versus barefoot hooves, rather than their functionality?

I'm also another Rockley fan, and I don't think you'll get a better project supervisor than Nic. Best of luck.
 
another that would happily offer, however we only have trims when the we haven't done enough to self trim if that makes sense, as we have a nice set of odd looking but functioning feet
 
johardy09 said:
Thank you so much everyone for so many people volunteering (both through threads and PMs). It's good to see lots of people are interested.

As for self maintaining.... I know... and it's certainly something I'd like to do, but unfortunately my hands are tied if I want to publish. I need to make sure all my groups are as comparable as possible. So for that I need to make sure they're on the same management time period.

As for the whole horse, again this is a thing which I think is going to be difficult to control, as to be totally complete, I would need all the horses to be the same breed, and same exercise regime, and same daily routine, and same diet etc... so sadly I think the best I can do on this is ensure all my horses aren't massively abnormal in any of these ways! I'm going for the standard general riding horse model.

As for Rockley, Nic has been great so far. I contacted them a while ago and they were keen to get involved, and so I'm intending on sending another email soon to follow it up.

Again thank you so much for everyone volunteering. Please do pass this on to any horsey friends that might be able to help! I need all the help I can get. I'll keep an eye on my PMs :-)
Click to expand...

A couple of thoughts.

1st - Would endurance horses be a good group to do your research on?



2nd - Will you measure the hooves just before the trim/shoeing and post trim/shoeing. My barefoot/unshod horses have a much more consistent hoof shape compared to when I had shod horses. I believe that this is because without the shoe, the horse is able to keep the breakover in the correct place because they can wear any excess growth away. They do get a squared off toe because of this.

With shoes, this cannot happen, so you get a longer toe growing during the shod period, which is then cut back during the trimming part of the shoeing process.
 
Happy to help. Am in West Kent.

1 x TB shod in front; unshod behind (13 yo)
1 x ISH shod all round (5 yo)

Both done every 5 weeks by master farrier (could go longer with ISH, but not TB)
 
Hi everyone,

I'm so grateful for everyone's interest. I really do appreciate it.

I'm so sorry about my requirements for horses which mean many volunteers aren't eligible. I want you to know that your willingness is really valued.

Sadly I have to put these restrictions in place because I'm never going to find a barefoot 10 year old 13hh new forest pony for every shod 10 year old 13hh new forest pony, and so I have to put some sort of restrictions on what horses can go in my research groups.

I'm fully aware of the trimming cycle issue, and it's something that I don't feel totally comfortable with either as I know many barefoot horses can be self trimming or can be done as and when they're needed by their owners. Sadly I have to try and make this group as similar as possible to my shod group though otherwise the validity of the study may well be questioned when it goes to publication.

Ideally, I need to do a phd on this instead! And then I'd have enough time to collect enough data and have many different groups, but at the moment that's not feasible.

I do appreciate all the comments and thoughts coming in though (as well as the volunteers!).... keep them coming :-)
 
You are welcome to come to mine - would have two being shod on 20th May. Also have one unshod but he's self trimming and has only been barefoot for about 6 months.
 
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