Shod to barefoot photos

[HappyHollyDays]

Surbie I’m very jealous of those frogs, they are fantastic for such a short time out of shoes.

 

[Surbie]

Thank you that's lovely to hear. Though to be fair to him, my farrier rarely felt the need to touch the frogs or the soles of my horse's feet so they started pretty chunky.

I've been surprised by how much they have shrunk overall in size.

 

[ycbm]

I've been surprised by how much they have shrunk overall in size.

This is one of my favourite photos. I had this horse about 3 months when I took this photo. I took that shoe off when he arrived.

 

[IrishMilo]

Now isn't this just a sight for sore eyes For anyone wondering the significance of the pink line, it's indicating heel growth in a vertical direction rather than the previous growth where the toe was pulling the heel under the foot. I can't believe how much healthier the frog looks and how amazingly he's coping now. We've just moved to my trainer's yard (last move for a while now, sorry Tuck...) and there's a long walk on mud/big stones that he's coping with no problem.

 

[Skips11]

Very interested in taking the fronts off my mare but am worried about how crippled she would be. When she is shod she lifts her legs up alternately because she can’t bear to stand on an unshod foot!
I took the hinds off when I got her and she wasn’t sore at all. I’d be interested in peoples opinions as to whether it would be worth it, and roughly how long they tend to be crippled for?

 

[IrishMilo]

Your mare's feet are actually quite nice @Skips11. The shoe isn't long enough as is.

The HPA (angle of foot in relation to pastern) is slightly more broken back on the near fore but it's not as bad as Tucker's. It really depends on their diet, state of their sole/frog and the type of ground you're on as to how long they struggle for (if at all). You can prep them for the change with supplements (biotin/Keratex/hoof hardeners) a few months before hand but I'm not entirely convinced they make a huge amount of difference. It takes around 6-8 months for a completely new foot capsule to grow so it's not a quick process and you need to be prepared to adjust your riding/management around that.

 

[Surbie]

I'd imagine it is different from horse to horse, but I'll defer to people with more experience than me.

Mine was visibly very sore for the first couple of weeks - awful to watch and our field is a long way from the yard on a stony track. Thankfully it has a grass verge. As posted earlier, I put nappies on his feet to give some protection, and I also used keratex hoof hardener every day for the first 2 weeks, which did seem to help.

He's currently sometimes choosing to walk on the verge again, but some days he'll happily march along the track. I am guessing that some of this might be down to a grass flush in the fields with all the warm, dry weather we are having? Nothing else in his diet or routine has changed. Would welcome any thoughts on that.

 

[lynz88]

I have a TB. I took shoes off on Sept 8 2021. The latest photos I've got is from Dec 31 2021. Angles of the photos that I took aren't 100% spot on but the changes are pretty obvious. Unfortunately some mud I didn't fully get off in Dec but again, still can see the difference. His foot fall action has completely changed although he's footy at the moment (I think he might be finished his FP hoof and skin - I've asked the yard whether I am out....)

My vet is very impressed. We had an issue of soft frogs and a stone got caught at the end of Nov. Before we realized this was the issue, vet was VERY reluctant to dig in case of an abscess because it meant putting a shoe back on which she didn't want to do after seeing such positive change. Silly boy ended up injuring himself pretty badly mid Dec (after his stone in the frog issue) and is still recovering so haven't done much work other than field rest and the odd walk down the lane

 

[lynz88]

I'd imagine it is different from horse to horse, but I'll defer to people with more experience than me.

Mine was visibly very sore for the first couple of weeks - awful to watch and our field is a long way from the yard on a stony track. Thankfully it has a grass verge. As posted earlier, I put nappies on his feet to give some protection, and I also used keratex hoof hardener every day for the first 2 weeks, which did seem to help.

He's currently sometimes choosing to walk on the verge again, but some days he'll happily march along the track. I am guessing that some of this might be down to a grass flush in the fields with all the warm, dry weather we are having? Nothing else in his diet or routine has changed. Would welcome any thoughts on that.

I think the wet weather softened up the feet and now that it has suddenly been so dry and the ground has hardened up, the barefooties are finding it difficult. Mine is not keen on walking on even sand at the moment. A few months ago he was ok to walk on that type of surface. I suspect part of it is his feet and the other part is that I'm not sure how healed up he is from doing in his SI, back, ribs, sternum, and under the elbow from being an idiot in the field after a brief period of box rest.

 

[lynz88]

Initially he was - and I'm not exaggerating - crippled. He didn't want to walk at all and when he did limped along. It was really hard to watch but he was going from his stable to the field and that was it and I genuinely felt I needed to be cruel to be kind longterm. I knew it was not going to be an easy transition as he basically doesn't know any different. Putting the shoes back on would have been such an easy quick fix but IMO it's the ones who are the most crippled out of shoes who benefit the most from coming out of them.

I felt the same. After about a week of having shoes off my guy didn't want to move but he strangely had a good vibe about him - like he knew it was better for him and he would be happier in the longterm. I do wonder if he felt the immediately effects on his arthritis

 

[McGrools]

I have a TB. I took shoes off on Sept 8 2021. The latest photos I've got is from Dec 31 2021. Angles of the photos that I took aren't 100% spot on but the changes are pretty obvious. Unfortunately some mud I didn't fully get off in Dec but again, still can see the difference. His foot fall action has completely changed although he's footy at the moment (I think he might be finished his FP hoof and skin - I've asked the yard whether I am out....)

My vet is very impressed. We had an issue of soft frogs and a stone got caught at the end of Nov. Before we realized this was the issue, vet was VERY reluctant to dig in case of an abscess because it meant putting a shoe back on which she didn't want to do after seeing such positive change. Silly boy ended up injuring himself pretty badly mid Dec (after his stone in the frog issue) and is still recovering so haven't done much work other than field rest and the odd walk down the lane


View attachment 86798

Wow! Impressive changes!
I’m at the 10 week stage and its hard going. Maybe because the ground had dried up so much. I’m hoping we have such good progress photos by month 4 as you do. ?

 

[McGrools]

Now isn't this just a sight for sore eyes For anyone wondering the significance of the pink line, it's indicating heel growth in a vertical direction rather than the previous growth where the toe was pulling the heel under the foot. I can't believe how much healthier the frog looks and how amazingly he's coping now. We've just moved to my trainer's yard (last move for a while now, sorry Tuck...) and there's a long walk on mud/big stones that he's coping with no problem.

Brilliant changes to the angles. Did that only take 3 weeks?
My lad’s feet are very similar. I have better angles growing in after 10 weeks bare but its going to take a long while. Xx

 

[ycbm]

I've found that newly barefoot horses which can be kept in work get a new heel to the ground in 3 or 4 months and the toe at 5 or 6.

The ones that have such weak feet that they can't have both front shoes off at the same time to be shod are the ones that need it most. My first barefoot horse was like this and it was 6 months before he was solid on his feet. He would have been a lot quicker, I think, if they had made boots big enough for him at the time.

Is everyone here using a barefoot friendly diet and mineral supplement? It can be the difference between success and failure.
.

 

[ycbm]

Very interested in taking the fronts off my mare but am worried about how crippled she would be. When she is shod she lifts her legs up alternately because she can’t bear to stand on an unshod foot!
I took the hinds off when I got her and she wasn’t sore at all. I’d be interested in peoples opinions as to whether it would be worth it, and roughly how long they tend to be crippled for?View attachment 86778View attachment 86779

If you don't have them taken off please get her shod longer. At least one of those shoes is ending well before the back of her heel, leaving it hanging out in space.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Some impressive changes here!

For those horses who struggle initially when the shoes are taken off, boots are an invaluable part of the rehab process. Don't let the horse hobble on in the meantime thinking that it will get better.

I've posted this photo before, but this is my homebred. The vet had said that she would never cope without shoes, but although the transition took a while, she is grand without them now. I couldn't have taken her shoes off without giving her some foot support in the first few weeks, she would have been crippled. She has other issues and has had multiple joint medications.

Here she is wearing Cavallo treks all round. They were fine for 12 hours of turnout a day, no rubs, and then taken off at night when she was stabled. This is best done when the ground is fairly dry, though.

 

[McGrools]

I've found that newly barefoot horses which can be kept in work get a new heel to the ground in 3 or 4 months and the toe at 5 or 6.

The ones that have such weak feet that they can't have both front shoes off at the same time to be shod are the ones that need it most. My first barefoot horse was like this and it was 6 months before he was solid on his feet. He would have been a lot quicker, I think, if they had made boots big enough for him at the time.

.

Thankyou ycbm. Reassuring. ??

 

[lynz88]

Wow! Impressive changes!
I’m at the 10 week stage and its hard going. Maybe because the ground had dried up so much. I’m hoping we have such good progress photos by month 4 as you do. ?

It has been quite wet for quite a while and now is suddenly dry so feet can be a bit soft = a bit of a struggle for them right at the moment.

Echo on the vit/mineral supplements to help them out. I've been debating boots and every time I'm about to take the plunge, he magically decides he can walk over everything.

 

[lynz88]

Thank you that's lovely to hear. Though to be fair to him, my farrier rarely felt the need to touch the frogs or the soles of my horse's feet so they started pretty chunky.

I've been surprised by how much they have shrunk overall in size.

Now I'm quite certain we have the same farrier because mine also doesn't trim back the frogs (except for when/where my horse needs it but will take as little off as he can) and takes as little sole off as possible. ?

 

[Pippity]

This is Blue after two months bare in front. Unfortunately, I don't have earlier photos to compare, and her winter woollies don't help with seeing the angles.

She's fine on soft surfaces but is struggling on stony/hard surfaces, so I'm in the process of getting her some hoof boots (hence the tape measure in the photos!)

She's seen by the farrier every six weeks, but he hasn't needed to do anything more than smooth off some rough edges.

Off fore:



Near fore:



I'd like to see more frog, and she is getting a lot of chipping/flaking on the hoof wall, especially on her near fore, but my farrier is happy and I'm far from an expert. I'd love some input from people with more experience of going barefoot.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

To give people hope that even terrible feet can come good this was my old show pony.




Start to 1 year progress, she started out on box rest and became sound enough for the field. She was early twenties and had been shod in front her entire life, wedges were really the cause of the complete collapse of her heels, although they had never been the best.

She needed boots/ shoes for work as she also had Cushings but she was very happy in the field. It taught me a lot and although I think bare is best, when they have metabolic issues sometimes compromise is needed and a hybrid approach is best.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I am going to sound like a broken record soon but for people who seriously want to improve their horses feet please look at the FB page and website of Mark Johnson Farrier. www.mjfanotherway.co.uk ?

 

[Surbie]

Thanks HufflyPuffly, those are really helpful photos! I'm on various FB groups (including following MJ) but it can be hard to navigate them - really appreciate @IrishMilo for setting up this thread and the other threads on here for info and pictures.

@Pippity do you do much to Blue's feet between trims?

My farrier very kindly gave me an old rasp (following a suggestion on here) and showed me how to look for and pre-empt some of the worst bits of chipping/flaking on my horse's feet.

 

[Pippity]

@Pippity do you do much to Blue's feet between trims?

My farrier very kindly gave me an old rasp (following a suggestion on here) and showed me how to look for and pre-empt some of the worst bits of chipping/flaking on my horse's feet.

I don't feel up to it! Although she's an awful lot better with her feet than she used to be, I don't want to set her back by doing something muppety and making her panic.

 

[lynz88]

Surbie this is hilarious because I had these same conversations and learning sessions as well - clearly not too long before you did! I haven't actually rasped anything though - my guys feet barely chips and he does tend to self trim as he doesn't need really much of any toe taken off when he is seen by said farrier every 5-6 weeks or so. We basically just straighten up the bars and remove the odd bit of old frog/sole growth that needs to come off and job done. I was also shown what to do for a crack if needed which I thought was very kind of him!

Also...it turns out I was out of my FP hoof and skin so no wonder my guy turned footy and the sole has started to turn a bit crumbly in spots (just a tiny bit). Sometimes I have to pride myself in recognizing the subtle changes! ??

 

[McGrools]

Hi guys. Worried about this crack in right fore heel. Only just really noticed it having taken today’s photos. He is sore on it without boots. Ok with boots. He can choose to be in or out. Wondering if this is a situation calling for limited movement?

 

[IrishMilo]

Hi guys. Worried about this crack in right fore heel. Only just really noticed it having taken today’s photos. He is sore on it without boots. Ok with boots. He can choose to be in or out. Wondering if this is a situation calling for limited movement?

Sorry, I've only just seen this. Looks like deep central sulcus thrush which really can cripple them. Keep it as dry and clean as you can - pack it with Sudocrem to keep moisture out and keep him off wet mud if you can.

 

[ycbm]

I missed it too. IME the most common cause of that is an abscess at the heel which resolved itself long ago. It will grow out, but at some point it might crack off. I bought a horse two years ago who was completely missing the heel and it grew out fine.
.

 

[Schollym]

It’ll be interesting to see them transform.
Look good underneath ratio wise, nice frogs…good basis to start the bf journey.

My gelding has 1 black and 1 white front hooves - a visual anomaly occurs where they rarely ‘look’ the same size, despite measuring them to be exactly the same at trimming, they always look like a mis-matched pair of front hooves! The white one always looks bigger.

We have a mare whose front feet were described in her vetting as not a pair! Our farrier has done a wonderful job, only problem we have had was when he was ill and another farrier did them and tried to make them match which made the horse lame.

 

[PurBee]

We have a mare whose front feet were described in her vetting as not a pair! Our farrier has done a wonderful job, only problem we have had was when he was ill and another farrier did them and tried to make them match which made the horse lame.

Yes, its a really funny optical illusion, they really do look different sizes.
I’d trim both the same, as per each hoof requirements, then look at the pair finished and was astounded how small the black one looked compared to the white. I had to get the measure tape out to check if i was seeing things, and i was…they were identical in size in length/width/depth. I no longer go by eye with different colour pair of hooves.