Shoeing evangelism?

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If shoeing doesn't cause navicular why does going barefoot produce a better cure rate than any other treatment by a long, long, long, long way????

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Maybe its also to do with the accompanying change in management and lifestyle? If you reduce a horse's workload, particularly work on firm ground and improve the horse's diet, you will also see an improvement in a shod horse. If being unshod didn't limit the amount and type of work you can do with your horse, I think everyone would go for it. I do actually agree with you that shoeing causes problems in itself, but most people really can't deal with the practicality of trying to use an unshod horse, the limitations would be nearly as bad as navicular, IMO
 
I love the fact that I am not blindsighted enough to realise the world is not black and white.

One of my horses needs shoes, the other doesn't.

Shoes have been around for millenia, they are not just a fashion accessory, they were invented for a purpose.

Horse A needs shoes because he competes on grass and being of the whizzy turn-on-a-sixpence type he is prone to slipping. He gets very footsore without shoes

And in regards to your 'barefoot' lark - I have seen too much damage caused by that. IMHO better a farrier than Joe Bloggs sat at home maiming their horse.

Horse B is UNSHOD. I would never, ever subscribe to this 'barefoot' horribleness. He has never been shod, the farrier comes and trims his feet, and he gets hoof creams put on in the summer if they start cracking.

Yes, soe horses are shod badly, but there is a legal registered body to protect people from unqualified farriers. There is nothing of the same for 'barefoot' horses. It might work for the performance ones you speak of, but shoes work for a much larger amount of performance horses.

If horse B starts to compete on grass, then he will be shod. My farrier is brilliant and I trust him much more than any lilac and lavendar waving hippy who read something in a book once
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We don't assume that ALL horses are better stabled, or that they are ALL better living out....

We don't just all buy the one type of rug for every horse...

We don't use the same bit for every horse...

We realise that all horses are individuals with different needs. People who can't grasp this should have a less demanding pet - like maybe a stuffed one.

So why the hell do some people assume that one method of footcare is right for evey horse - whichever side of the debate they come down on?
 
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BUT, if your vet and farrier tell you that one of your horses has incurable navicular, PLEASE do not have it shot unless you are desperate for the insurance money.

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Ooohh a good poke in the ribs there. That might just be a bit too close to the truth to be comfortably spoken out loud like that!
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I see this thread hasn't gone away and died overnight, so I'll add my tuppence worth. I have a horse that was saved from the scrap heap by going barefoot. I also have a horse that is currently out on loan, but is shod. In an ideal world she would be barefoot but she came to us shod and to maintain her training and competition we were not able to give her the downtime to transition to barefoot.

I wanted to say that my trimmer is a DAEP (KC LaPierre trained) and he will never say barefoot suits ALL horses per se. He often advises owners they would be better off going back to or staying with shoes for whatever reason. Though obviously he believes in the benefits of allowing natural hoof function, and I know from my own experience that it can save horses that would otherwise be written off.

Anyone, professional or lay person, who says all horse should be barefoot, or all horses should be shod, is clearly talking out of their own backside. As others have said, there is a place for both approaches, and only in being sensitive to an individual horse's needs can the right decisions be made.
 
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He has gone from being able to do 3 to 4 hour rides on our lanes and the Pennine National Bridle path to being incredibly uncomfortable just walking for 10 mins up the lane and back. He now has white line diease in one foot which was fine when the shoes came of, his feet chipped so badly with the 'mustang trim' that my farrier had to re trim them and leave them for 3 weeks till he had enough foot to shoe and to cap it all he has thrush! He has never had thrush before in the 15 years I have owned him

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My goodness what an awful experience. I wonder what kind of quality of horn he had when his shoes first came off.

What's a "mustang trim"?
 
I love it when some up their own arse, got most of their knowledge from a book, bunny hugging dickhead, disregards my, my farrier & my vet's knowledge, experience & opinion & preaches to me about what is best for MY horse and his feet!......Then proceeds to ask me to move onto a road so they can remain on the soft verge when we pass, due to the fact that their horse is BAREFOOT!.

But in all seriousness. I believe that barefoot may be an excellent option for some horses just as shod is the best option for other horses.

What I don't appreciate is the way in which many advocates of barefoot force their opinions down your throat, and spread propoganda & exageration to try and discredit shoeing without weighing up the benefits of such, with educated debate.

The same could of course be be said of religous nutjobs & those in the parelli cult.
 
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But if I save just ONE horse from a death sentence from his vet and his farrier that navicular is an incurable disease, I'll die happy!

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Navicular Syndrome... its a syndrome.. not a disease.. is NOT curable.. It is a DEGENERATIVE condition, that can be MAINTAIN, but not CURED..

To CURE this condition you would have to find some amazing miricle drug which can resurface the damaged cartilage and ligament/tendon tissues. I think you'll struggle..

Stop being a bloody jobsworth.. Talk about stuff you know about and not tosh you dont!

Lou x
 
And another thing.. Pasture tirm.. mustang trim.. again its a load of rubbish.. there a a few types of trim but fudimently it is either remedial.. or basic.

The only way to trim a healthy foot is to remove the length, balence the foot and removed flare!
 
Will also add to this post since it is refusing to lay down and die!

My horse has navicular and other issues with his legs, early ringbone, coffin joint arthritis, bone spurs, ligament damage. He was going to be shot at 7yrs old as he was in so much pain.

I took him on last year. ( I can recognise a good deal when I see one!
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) He had had a break for a year - shoes off and lots of tlc.

I researched a lot of information on going barefoot as I everything I read about it indicated that it was best for horses with navicular.

The long and short of it is that it wasn't best for him. He hated being barefoot and was very uncomfortable. I bought easy care boots for him which helped but didn't solve the problem.

My farrier has worked with me every step of the way in finding something that suits him. We have tried barefoot - scrupulously balanced, clogs, pads, wedges, everything. He even went to the vets with him to be there when he xrayed his feet.

He is now shod with wedges and heel support. He has breakover built in and rolled toes and sides. He is the best he has ever been.

Barefoot was not best for my horse with navicular.
 
These threads always make me laugh.... I do whats best for the horse, my mare was always barefoot she was never once foot sore and was happy to do plenty of road work sound as a pound and loved only paying £10 for a trim

The lad I have now came to me barefoot (as he had been turned out in the field for 2-3 years and done sod all) he was very foot sore on anything but the softest ground so he has shoes on all round, sound as a pound for this I am happy to pay £70 for shoeing.

The horses WELFARE must come first not some fad that the owner decides is worth a try followed by comments of he/she is really lame on rough ground and his/her frogs are bleeding but my trimmer says in another 6 months it will be fine!!!
 
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These threads always make me laugh.... I do whats best for the horse, my mare was always barefoot she was never once foot sore and was happy to do plenty of road work sound as a pound and loved only paying £10 for a trim

The lad I have now came to me barefoot (as he had been turned out in the field for 2-3 years and done sod all) he was very foot sore on anything but the softest ground so he has shoes on all round, sound as a pound for this I am happy to pay £70 for shoeing.

The horses WELFARE must come first not some fad that the owner decides is worth a try followed by comments of he/she is really lame on rough ground and his/her frogs are bleeding but my trimmer says in another 6 months it will be fine!!!

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Yes - agree - the horses welfare must come first. I wonder why he was so sore on anything but he softest ground?

"really lame on rough ground and his/her frogs are bleeding but my trimmer says in another 6 months it will be fine!!! "

I can't imagine any concientous trimmer taking that approach to a horse that is sore and has bleeding frogs. You must have come across a really bad trimmer.
 
Evangelism can follow any "fad" to do with horses feet- but thats just my opinion!.

Seriously though, what needs to be remembered is that each horse is an individual and what suits one horse doesn't always suit another.

I'm pleased to pay my Farrier what he charges for his hard work and efforts in keeping my horses sound.
 
This is crazy guys grow up a little bit! we all have an opinion

I have to say that I agree whole hartedly with OP from taking the jouney myself and she clearly knows her stuff (tho your approach is slightly aggrivating, you have clearly managed to get a response)

Some people are not openminded enough to hear and see this in black and white that YES some horse do need shoes to do the job that WE ask them to do, that is why they were invented hundreds of years ago by human not horses ! but to do an hour a day in a menage and a 3 mile hack at the weekend or trot on grass at a show ground. I'm not so sure. The performance barefoot horse is still a fairly new concept - in a 100 years time people will be digging up horse shoes in fields and going what is this? .... why would you do that?

If anyone has a horse with Navic that can no longer do the job you intended it do do please PM me as I would be interested in it coming to live with my mare (and yes I would take its shoes off) but it would be welcome in my padock paradise

Horses are amazing animals they let us get away with murder!
 
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Evangelism can follow any "fad" to do with horses feet- but thats just my opinion!.

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Horses not having shes on is not a "fad" its nature!!!
 
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Horses not having shes on is not a "fad" its nature!!!

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Fair do's but nature did not intend the nags to be carrying another 7-15 stones of weight?

Barefoot can work, mainly with lighter weight riders, horses in light work and dressage horses on a surface, but most competition horses are shod as the foot cannot cope with that amount of work and the extra weight.
 
In the name of the wee man what a load of bollocks.

If it needs shoes it gets them, if it doesn't need them, it doesn't.

I'm off back to the sanity of Comp riders, I knew there was a reason I don't venture out of there much.
 
"Barefoot can work, mainly with lighter weight riders, horses in light work and dressage horses on a surface, but most competition horses are shod as the foot cannot cope with that amount of work and the extra weight. "

Sorry, you are wrong. Most barefoot experiments that fail do so because the owner cannot provide the right nutrition, living environment and exercise. It is nothing to do with haevy workloads or weight of the rider. In particular many owners are very reluctant to accept just how sensitive to grass sugars their horses are. Dry "turnout" is also a big issue for people in livery yards. Performance horses' feet cope fine with the weight of a rider and the amount of work but many, perhaps most, owners can't get the regime right. Those owners should shoe.
 
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Navicular Syndrome... its a syndrome.. not a disease.. is NOT curable.. It is a DEGENERATIVE condition, that can be MAINTAIN, but not CURED..

To CURE this condition you would have to find some amazing miricle drug which can resurface the damaged cartilage and ligament/tendon tissues. I think you'll struggle..

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No, to cure this condition in the vast majority of cases, you take it barefoot. I can find you x-rays of cures in a 24 year old horse. And MRIs of cures in many others. The problem is people like your vet and farrier, if that's where you got your information from, who, in the face of increasing evidence, still insist that navicular cannot be cured. It is being cured.
 
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Yes - agree - the horses welfare must come first. I wonder why he was so sore on anything but he softest ground? <font color="green">I would imagine all the gravel/ stony ground and hard paths hurt his feet. shoes fixed it </font>



"really lame on rough ground and his/her frogs are bleeding but my trimmer says in another 6 months it will be fine!!! "

I can't imagine any concientous trimmer taking that approach to a horse that is sore and has bleeding frogs. You must have come across a really bad trimmer. <font color="green"> This is purely some of the bare foot speil I have heard I would never use a trimmer I would only ever use a fully qualified farrier </font>

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There you go again...*Pulls hair out* ... Same line, over and over...jesus!! Are you a qualified vet? Qualified farrier, or just qualified to spout utter bollox?

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Do you call it bollox just because you don't like it? Can you point me to the evidence that says I am wrong, as I can point you to the scientific evidence that says I am right? Do you think vets and farriers are never wrong? Do you think no-one can use their brains, books, the internet, experience, talk to professionals who understand and have an OPEN MIND to find out things that some vets and farriers might not know?

Or do you just want to keep on issuing me with personal abuse?

I can take any amount of abuse if I have succeeded in doing what I wanted to do - let people know that many vets and farriers are not up to date with treatments which, in most cases, will save their horses from the death sentences that are currently being handed down.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from shooting their horses if they want to. One poster has stated forcibly that he/she will shoot her horse if she wants to. I find that sad, but entirely their right. What I am trying to do is to stop owners from accepting their vets' and farriers' advice that there is nothing more that can be done for their lame horses, when there is. The people who will cry a bucketfull of tears if they find out AFTER the abattoir lorry has left that there was more that could have been done.

I think I've achieved my objective. People had some fun discussing it too. So I'll be off now. So long and thanks for all the fish.
 
My horses are shod.

One had crap feet when I got him...long toed, flat-footed and footsore. He had no shoes on. My farrier has sorted his feet out and re-aligned his axis...hoof quality is good because of his diet and he has never been lame/footsore since.

One was bought and had never been shod...feet were in great condition but he became footsore - our yard and the lane leading out of it are very pebbly/flinty....he has front shoes on only and is now fine again.

I have previously had ponies without shoes and they were fine with conventional trims/balancing from my farrier.

I have no axe to grind either for/anti shoes.....its whatever suits the individual horse. My farrier is excellent.....he is happy to shoe or just trim- whatever I want/the horses need- he certainly doesnt push shoes at me for no reason......I would never leave a horse shoe-less if it were uncomfortable.

They may be born without shoes, but they are born without saddles/bridles/bits......and we ask them to do things they wouldnt have done naturally- and I want my horses to be comfortable whilst they are doing whatever it is they are doing.

Each to their own.
 
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I'm not trying to stop anyone from shooting their horses if they want to. One poster has stated forcibly that he/she will shoot her horse if she wants to. I find that sad, but entirely their right. What I am trying to do is to stop owners from accepting their vets' and farriers' advice that there is nothing more that can be done for their lame horses, when there is. The people who will cry a bucketfull of tears if they find out AFTER the abattoir lorry has left that there was more that could have been done.

I think I've achieved my objective. People had some fun discussing it too. So I'll be off now. So long and thanks for all the fish.

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I don't know what makes you think you have achieved any objective, apart coming across as a barefoot evangelical unprepared to accept alternative viewpoints and therefore not to be taken seriously....
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Not read of all of this, but my goodness there is some bollocks on here.

We have 2 ponies shoeless, 1 has never been shod and copes with anything. 1 was front shod for a while and was happier without so we took them off and left them off.

We have 2 front shod, it's how they came and we see no reason to change. Our farrier agrees.

We have 2 full shod. One came that way and our farrier reckons he doesn't really need shoes at all so we'll try that once he's settled. 1 had never been shod when we got him and clearly had never had to deal with stoney tracks. He also needed some remedial work so he is now all shod and is one happy wee pony.

In other words as others have said we do what is right for the animal. There should be no other consideration.

Mind you, there are some crap farriers out there. We are lucky in that respect, there are several good ones around us.
 
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Fair do's but nature did not intend the nags to be carrying another 7-15 stones of weight?

Barefoot can work, mainly with lighter weight riders, horses in light work and dressage horses on a surface, but most competition horses are shod as the foot cannot cope with that amount of work and the extra weight.

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Light work? Hummm... probably the highest percentage of barefoot competition horses occur in endurance, the most physically arduous and demanding of all the horse sports. No prepared, consistant or surfaces for us.

Two examples - one personal... my friend completed her first 50 mile ride last month, barefoot. Her horse's feet looked fantastic after the ride. That's fifty miles - definitely not light work. And she's not alone - more horses every year are competing barefoot in endurance in the UK - as people see it can work more people give it a go. Including me I should add. I didn't try it from just listening to people spout on or reading threads like these - I tried it because I saw the evidence with my own eyes.

Example two - this years Tevis Cup in the USA, probably the most gruelling and tough endurance race in the world. 100 miles in a day, through the unforgiving heat and rocks of the Californian mountains. The completion rate averages 54%. In this years race the successful completion rate for barefoot horses was 75%, including two top ten finishers. You really can't argue with that
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Horses not having shes on is not a "fad" its nature!!!

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Fair do's but nature did not intend the nags to be carrying another 7-15 stones of weight?

Barefoot can work, mainly with lighter weight riders, horses in light work and dressage horses on a surface, but most competition horses are shod as the foot cannot cope with that amount of work and the extra weight.

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Whoops, don't tell mt team chasing/hunting/5 hour hacking little barefoot horse that as he carries my weight around said activities.
his feet might fall off!
 
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