Shoeing - gap between toe and shoe

I've had small gaps before when my horse has ripped off a shoe and has lost bits of horn... but it always sorts itself out within a shoeing cycle as his feet grow really well. But mine were nothing like that - that looks like it's been trimmed wonkily (the technically term).
 
ester said:
How lame? Has the farrier taken the shoes off to check for abscess/corns. Poor chap.

did the farrier say that the short toe was due to pawing? What did he say about the shoeing job?
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They haven't been taken off this time as I had another farrier come out and look at him who had to go off for an emergency. He thinks the other foot has been trimmed so it's unbalanced - can't remember which way round it is without looking at him but think outside of hoof longer than inside. He isn't hopping lame, but is slightly lame on the straight and more noticeably lame on right circle.

Re the short toes - I'm wondering if his feet were trimmed even more when the shoes were refitted. I had to take the afternoon off for the refitting, but got delayed on the train (someone stopped all the service by walking along the track!) so he was just finishing as I got there.

Original farrier said he was pawing. Two people there at the time didn't see or hear him pawing, but they said they couldn't say for certain. He never normally paws while bein shod. He didn't say much about the shoeing either other than didn't see it as a massive issue. Turns out since my original post there is slightly more to all this, but I can't really put it all on here in case anyone can identify me by recognising my horse! Vet coming to see him on Monday too as she is at the yard for others.
 
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khalswitz said:
I've had small gaps before when my horse has ripped off a shoe and has lost bits of horn... but it always sorts itself out within a shoeing cycle as his feet grow really well. But mine were nothing like that - that looks like it's been trimmed wonkily (the technically term).
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I think trimmed wonkily describes it perfectly! Poor boy :-(
 
comet! said:
They haven't been taken off this time as I had another farrier come out and look at him who had to go off for an emergency. He thinks the other foot has been trimmed so it's unbalanced - can't remember which way round it is without looking at him but think outside of hoof longer than inside. He isn't hopping lame, but is slightly lame on the straight and more noticeably lame on right circle.
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Eek. Don't wish to alarm you, but this is exactly what my ex farrier did to my cob and it caused all sorts of problems, some of them long term. Get the foot balance sorted asap.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Eek. Don't wish to alarm you, but this is exactly what my ex farrier did to my cob and it caused all sorts of problems, some of them long term. Get the foot balance sorted asap.
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The trouble is the balance can't be sorted out until his foot grows a bit - there is nothing to take off at the moment as they're so short.
 
comet! said:
The trouble is the balance can't be sorted out until his foot grows a bit - there is nothing to take off at the moment as they're so short.
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In that case, what I would do is box rest him on a deep shavings bed until he has grown some more foot and the foot can be be trimmed correctly. Or how about a remedial shoe, built up on one side? Anything to reduce the twisting effect of an uneven footfall.

Be interesting to hear what the vet says. Good luck.

ETA It could involve a remedial farrier shoeing or trimming to a set of x rays.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Eek. Don't wish to alarm you, but this is exactly what my ex farrier did to my cob and it caused all sorts of problems, some of them long term. Get the foot balance sorted asap.
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I have a great farrier, but in 2011 I had an event farrier see to a shoe that had come off, and he said it was best to actually do both front feet as otherwise they would be uneven, then he ended up doing all 4 as I was due to the farrier anyway the day after, and a 3 hour round trip for back shoes did not seem to make sense......

4 weeks later I was back at my farrier, reporting that my horse just seemed a bit "off" and he was horrified to see how in one trimming he was way off balance. It ended up with a splint on the worst leg. It was not even as noticeable as your horse, it as just a bit off balance, but I could feel it.

After that experience I may not box rest my horse, but I would avoid work at all until given the all clear by a good farrier or vet that the foot has been balanced correctly again.

I sympathise, as it is a real ball acher when a professional makes a mistake that stops your horse riding time, but all the same I would rest completely, even once sound, until you are sure all is well.
 
comet! said:
Is anyone else's horse shod with a gap between the toe and the shoe and with no toe clips on shoe? I can't see the reason for it being done like this other than the toe being cut too short making shoes with toe clips not possible?

It's very gravelly/flinty where I ride, so I am worried that he's going to get bits stuck between shoe and toe.
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Did you not ask him while he was shoeing??? only farriers normally do things for a reason. My boy had toe clips in front for over a year and my new farrier said it was making his front feet the wrong shape. I would speak to your farrier and find out why he shod him that way, my farreir also shod my boy wide to get his feet to spread a bit.
 
Ah I understand now re. the pawing (didn't realise he meant mid shoeing!) but not convinced myself - or at least don't think they should have been left like that. Vet check seems like a good idea, hopefully horse will be doing better soon.
 
Tiddlypom said:
In that case, what I would do is box rest him on a deep shavings bed until he has grown some more foot and the foot can be be trimmed correctly. Or how about a remedial shoe, built up on one side? Anything to reduce the twisting effect of an uneven footfall.

Be interesting to hear what the vet says. Good luck.

ETA It could involve a remedial farrier shoeing or trimming to a set of x rays.
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Thanks. This farrier is a remedial farrier!

Red-1 said:
I have a great farrier, but in 2011 I had an event farrier see to a shoe that had come off, and he said it was best to actually do both front feet as otherwise they would be uneven, then he ended up doing all 4 as I was due to the farrier anyway the day after, and a 3 hour round trip for back shoes did not seem to make sense......

4 weeks later I was back at my farrier, reporting that my horse just seemed a bit "off" and he was horrified to see how in one trimming he was way off balance. It ended up with a splint on the worst leg. It was not even as noticeable as your horse, it as just a bit off balance, but I could feel it.

After that experience I may not box rest my horse, but I would avoid work at all until given the all clear by a good farrier or vet that the foot has been balanced correctly again.

I sympathise, as it is a real ball acher when a professional makes a mistake that stops your horse riding time, but all the same I would rest completely, even once sound, until you are sure all is well.
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I'm more annoyed for my horse than me. It'll mean I'm going to miss PetPlan, which isn't the end of the world and there is always next year (hopefully!) but is annoying if it's due to a fault by someone else. However, I suppose I shouldn't be so negative - it could all just be a coincidence that it started the day after shoeing. Just wish Monday would hurry up and come as I'll be stressing about it all weekend!

HGA-12 said:
Did you not ask him while he was shoeing??? only farriers normally do things for a reason. My boy had toe clips in front for over a year and my new farrier said it was making his front feet the wrong shape. I would speak to your farrier and find out why he shod him that way, my farreir also shod my boy wide to get his feet to spread a bit.
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This was two weeks ago. I work full time about 2 hours away from yard. Until this year I was almost always there for him to be shod but due to work, I haven't been able to this year. It turns out the fronts were done by an apprentice, now replaced by farrier but trimmed very short and unlevel.

ester said:
Ah I understand now re. the pawing (didn't realise he meant mid shoeing!) but not convinced myself - or at least don't think they should have been left like that. Vet check seems like a good idea, hopefully horse will be doing better soon.
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Thanks, I'm not convinced either. He only paws if he gets really excited when he thinks it should be dinner time and he only does it when it's me who has left him tied up (attention seeker :-)) . Again, I shouldn't be negative but I don't think he was pawing.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Just wish I could be a bit more chilled when things go wrong rather than going into panic mode :-(
 
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comet! said:
Thanks. This farrier is a remedial farrier!


I'm more annoyed for my horse than me. It'll mean I'm going to miss PetPlan, which isn't the end of the world and there is always next year (hopefully!) but is annoying if it's due to a fault by someone else. However, I suppose I shouldn't be so negative - it could all just be a coincidence that it started the day after shoeing. Just wish Monday would hurry up and come as I'll be stressing about it all weekend!

This was two weeks ago. I work full time about 2 hours away from yard. Until this year I was almost always there for him to be shod but due to work, I haven't been able to this year. It turns out the fronts were done by an apprentice, now replaced by farrier but trimmed very short and unlevel.


Thanks, I'm not convinced either. He only paws if he gets really excited when he thinks it should be dinner time and he only does it when it's me who has left him tied up (attention seeker :-)) . Again, I shouldn't be negative but I don't think he was pawing.
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I will literally eat my hat if the lameness is not related to that shoeing or foot balance! The farrier that crippled my horse, just prior to me owning him is a remedial farrier and has won awards for his shoeing. To be fair, he deserves and award for keeping shoes on my boys feet the state they were in! How has pawing caused that sort of trim/shoeing? And even if it did, why did the farrier not contact you to explain the issues and the plan going forward?
 
FrankieCob said:
I will literally eat my hat if the lameness is not related to that shoeing or foot balance! The farrier that crippled my horse, just prior to me owning him is a remedial farrier and has won awards for his shoeing. To be fair, he deserves and award for keeping shoes on my boys feet the state they were in! How has pawing caused that sort of trim/shoeing? And even if it did, why did the farrier not contact you to explain the issues and the plan going forward?
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I will let you know on Monday if you need to eat your hat ;-)

It was only brought up because I contacted him and asked what had happened - there wouldn't have been any contact with me as they seem to think it was fine and certainly didn't think any need for any change in future shoeings. My boy is quite a delicate one despite his looks, although who could blame him with unbalanced feet. Quite glad in a way that he is delicate as at least it's shown up (hopefully) early.
 
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Inobx me and let me know who it was! I doubt its the same person as hes too busy filming TV shows to have apprentices, but I'm pretty sure I DO know who it is :lol:
 
Oh god. Here goes. Your horse looks to have lovely horn quality and decent hooves, which have just been hacked around by some farrier's apprentice. Have you ever thought of....barefoot? I only ask because the properly trimmed barefoot horses I know, including my own, generally do very well.
I see a lot of shod horses and badly (farrier) trimmed barefoot horses and their feet range from Ok to welfare cases. I know it's a huge debate here and elsewhere, and yes, there are good farriers. Somewhere. Aren't there?
 
Landcruiser said:
Oh god. Here goes. Your horse looks to have lovely horn quality and decent hooves, which have just been hacked around by some farrier's apprentice. Have you ever thought of....barefoot? I only ask because the properly trimmed barefoot horses I know, including my own, generally do very well.
I see a lot of shod horses and badly (farrier) trimmed barefoot horses and their feet range from Ok to welfare cases. I know it's a huge debate here and elsewhere, and yes, there are good farriers. Somewhere. Aren't there?
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I did have a quick discussion with my vet about it a few months ago. It was only a passing chat really as I was a bit unhappy with something (I think it was the frequency of his shoeing). The main issue is that he used to struggle on the stoney tracks without back shoes on so I put backs on him about 2 years ago. I'm lucky we have minimal roadwork but the negative is that it's very gravelly and stoney where I ride and there isn't a ride you can do to avoid the stoney parts so I was worried he would struggle.
 
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You might be surprised if you researched a proper barefoot diet and had a decent barefoot trimmer. Unless your horse has underlying metabolic issues there's no reason you couldn't manage. And there are always hoof boots. They'd work out a hell of a lot cheaper than £85 every 6 weeks!
 
OldNag said:
If it really was pawing while being shod... wouldn't there be a more rounded look to the front? And surely the horse would gave to paw for hours to wear that much away!
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I agree. Nobody on the yard saw him pawing either so seems unlikely, although I couldn't argue this with the farrier as I wasn't able to speak to the people until after I'd spoken to the farrier (if that makes sense). I also think if he was pawing while farrier was busy with another horse, he should have just put him in stable.

Landcruiser said:
You might be surprised if you researched a proper barefoot diet and had a decent barefoot trimmer. Unless your horse has underlying metabolic issues there's no reason you couldn't manage. And there are always hoof boots. They'd work out a hell of a lot cheaper than £85 every 6 weeks!
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Every 5 weeks! :-) Vet coming on Monday so I will chat to her again.
 
You won't find many vets who know much about barefoot management of horses. My own vet (retirement age, so very experienced) wouldn't advise barefoot. I don't think their training covers it. Where in the country are you?
 
OldNag said:
If it really was pawing while being shod... wouldn't there be a more rounded look to the front? And surely the horse would gave to paw for hours to wear that much away!
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Not commenting on the shape, but a horse can scrape away it's toe pretty quickly on concrete IME. My horse is a chronic pawer whilst he eats, and I tied him up once outside his stable to eat whilst he had a front shoe off due to an abscess. Well. He's been due to have his shoe back on the next day and was sound, but after 10 mins of extreme pawing he had no toe left, and was reasonably lame for a week. Farrier put the shoe back on which helped, but he was pretty sore...

So I'd say they could do that much damage pawing if they really go for it on the concrete, but I agree the shape would be different - my lad looked like his toe had been sliced off!
 
khalswitz said:
Not commenting on the shape, but a horse can scrape away it's toe pretty quickly on concrete IME. My horse is a chronic pawer whilst he eats, and I tied him up once outside his stable to eat whilst he had a front shoe off due to an abscess. Well. He's been due to have his shoe back on the next day and was sound, but after 10 mins of extreme pawing he had no toe left, and was reasonably lame for a week. Farrier put the shoe back on which helped, but he was pretty sore...

So I'd say they could do that much damage pawing if they really go for it on the concrete, but I agree the shape would be different - my lad looked like his toe had been sliced off!
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The farrier could stop the horse if it was pawing, and stick the shoe on, its obviously not what happened.
 
Bonkers2 said:
The farrier could stop the horse if it was pawing, and stick the shoe on, its obviously not what happened.
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I wasn't debating that that was what had happened to the OP's horse - it's very obviously wonkily trimmed, by the shape and everything. I was just replying to OldNag's comment that it wasn't possible to do that much damage in a short time, as it is.
 
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