Shoeing issues

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toomanyhorses26

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I bought and sold last year a 3 year old TB. He is very grown up in every way - hacks out alone,unspooky and generally a little star apart from being shod. I still help with his shoeing as he can be quite bolshy on the ground and the two girls who now own him are tiny so I would be worried about him hurting them. Currently he is sedated for shoeing but even this doesn't stop all the thrashing about that he does. He seems ok with the shoes being taken off and them being fitted (he is hot shod) but starts messing about when they are being nailed on and finshed. He can go from being asleep on your shoulder one minute to rearing up and kicking out in the blink of an eye and has caught me again this morning. We have tried seperating the shoes so he is done fronts one week and hinds the next - no real difference and it means sedating him twice,not sedating him (interesting to say the least!),food distractions,twitching him and having him bridled up for shoeing . Nothing has really made any long lasting difference. I haven't been able to find out whether anything had happened in the past so am dealing with this blind as such. My farrier is unbelievably patient with him and this morning it has taken an hour just to get two fronts on him. He doesn't seem at all scared of the farrier,tools,van,forge etc - in fact he shoved his head through his window for a biscuit this morning :) but it seems like a teenage strop. He is given regular breaks so his foot isn't upfor too long but it doesn't seem to lessen the stress. I feel we have been really fair on his treatment and things just aren't improving so am looking for new ideas and a fresh pair of eyes on the issue :) I have suggested trying barefoot (obviously gradually and with the right help and then going for boots etc for the work (we have a fair amount of roadwork round our way) but his new owners want to stay with shoes soooo answers on a postcard :)
 
If it is only with the nailing on of the shoe is there any chance he is experiencing discomfort or pain from this? If he has thin hoof walls then it will be difficult to place the nails so that they stay well away from the white line. If he is good for the rest of the process then it sounds like he is telling you something rather than being a bugger.
 
This is what I am wondering as when he has had a moment he does just stand there as if to say 'what I didn't do anything'. My only reservation with this is that the farrier can normally get a couple of nails in before he starts so if he did have thin walls would he not create right from the beginning? If this is the problem what is the best way to try and minimise any discomfort ? Bute ?
 
If that is the problem then I wouldn't go about minimising the discomfort, bute isn't fixing the problem it will just try and make it less painful for the horse. I wouldn't consider it to be a solution tbh. If the farrier gets a couple of nails in first then perhaps he tollerates it for a bit before reacting. Perhaps the wall is thinner as you get towards the quaters (I know it was with OH mare)?

What does the farrier say about it? Does he find it hard to place the nails given the amount of hoof wall the horse has or does he feel it isn't a prob?

Is there a reason the owners are keen for the horse to stay in shoes? If I needed to sedate my horse for something that comes about so regularly as shoeing I would be looking at having the shoes off tbh.
 
Farrier doesn't have an issue with foot to nail into but he does sometimes have issue with getting the first nails in because of his reluctance to hold still. He said they are average for a horse out of training and they are a better shape now than they were - very long toes and collasped heels when he first arrived. His feet are still quite weak towards the bottom of his foot but he has got a growth line onhis feet which he thinks will be able to be nailed into within the next 2/3 shoeings so it should improve matters (growth line I guess would be from the better quality food and grazing?) . Not sure why shoes will ask a bit more indepth I guess because of the initial outlay and they would like to show him this year which they wouldn't be able to do in boots
 
if shoes come off then there is no need to boot at all times - just for surfaces that the horse finds more challenging, with correct management the need for boots usually reduces anyway. So unless he finds a surface/field challenging then he wouls be able to show 'au naturel'!

If they/you are interested in considering it further then I would totally recommend getting a copy of 'feet first'. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feet-First-Barefoot-Performance-Rehabilitation/dp/0851319602
Very interesting and informative wether they decide to go without shoes or not.
 
Leaving aside the issue of "to shoe or not to shoe", these two suggestions might help.

a) Shoe the horse on an big piece of old carpet.

b) Instead of sedation, try Bach Flower Rescue Remedy (available from chemists - about £3 a bottle and you only need a few drops)

These two things solved all my shoeing problems with a very tense, volatile TB mare.

As others have said, there may be a real underlying issue of pain. But it might be the same reaction as he/she would have to other things. For example, does the horse leap around if you hose its legs? Or clip it?
 
I have a horse that needs remedial shoeing and reacts to the farrier like your horse. She is a star in every other way, so it seemed to me, probable that her reaction was due to pain. She would explode suddenly even with sedalin paste. What has worked for her- and she is much, much better, was Dormosedan Gel, given under the tongue half an hour before. However, because I felt it was pain related rather than behavioural, I started giving her bute the evening before and again in the morning. Next shoeing will be done hopefully with just the bute and no sedation.
Dormosedan gel seems to be better for her and has only been a short term measure.
If the new owners don't want to take his shoes off, would they compromise with only having fronts on ? It seems a shame to put him through it if it could be avoided.
 
Oh horrid situation for you and the horse. :(
It sounds like a problem with the nailing and probably pain. I've no suggestions except ask the new owners to do some reading themselves.
Here's an interesting story, not the same but the point about listening to what the horse is telling you is the important bit I think. http://www.healthyhoof.com/articles/Gavilanandthefarrier.htm

This blog entry gives some info on how crucial nailing correctly and to a good hoof wall is. http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.c...dated-max=2011-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=50
 
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I would recomend removing hind shoes altogether - most horses cope absolutely fine with just fronts and it would save half the hastle.

Have you thought of practicing tapping a hammer on his shoes between shoeings? may desensitise him to it?

The other day my farrier recomended temprelax to me as something to give my boy should we decide he needed shoeing (he's only 3 and currently barefoot but is a 'bit funny' about new things)

as others have said, perhaps removing his shoes for even a short period (now while the ground is relatively soft) of say a few months would give his feet a break, encourage healthier growth and perhaps make them less sensitive.

What is he fed on? If he is on a sugary diet it could be that his feet are a tiny bit sensitive / bordering laminitic. Is he on anything to support healthy hoof growth?
 
hey there

I hope my experience and my learning curve could help you and ill keep it as short as I can.
I bought my mare almost 2 years ago in July and the first time the farrier came I didn’t think anything of it with her being 8 and having 2 front shoes on already and she went bat ****! She would rear up, throw herself around almost to the point where she became a danger when it came to nailing in, though the preparation was ok the smoke was even fine just the nails. We used a twitch and sediline and 2 hours later we have 2 front shoes on. It was a struggle but with my support on her knee and my farriers amazing patience and skill they were on.

The physico came out and her back was fine so next time the farrier came same thing and the third time she needed back shoes on so I asked for them and reluctantly he said yes and she didn’t batter an eye lid.

Any how the point is each time she would have sediline and a large hay net and many distractions like chopped carrots and apples, polo’s and a bowl of feed just for when the nails went in.

Getting mad may seem like an easy option but when they are scared of the noise of the nail going in, no different to going to the dentist and the noisy instruments they use.

Any how we got to a point when we could do all 4 in just over 2hours and one day the farrier even had to come back twice to finish off, try patting loud on their shoulder or neck (naturally without hurting them) to distract their attention try talking at them really loud just random rubbish.

Its worked for me and I now use no sediline I just make sure she has been turned out and preferably ridden first and I have a haynet for the prep and a pocket of polo’s and chopped carrots for the nails.

And it will take an awful lot of patients on both your farriers part and especially yours but you will get there, I did it’s taken almost 18months and we can shoe all 4 in 50mins! Which before was unheard off.

There is no easy fix. good luck
PM me if you would like to discuss anything
 
Agree with all above. Sounds as though there is a real pain issue here. If you're thinking it might be remembered pain/scariness that is bothering the horse you/your (very patient!) farrier could try tapping around the edge of the hoof lightly to 'simulate' nailing. If horse is good about that you can be pretty sure that the nails are causing real pain now rather than it being a case of him remembering a previous incident/pain. If he isn't calm about that then you'll probs need to work on that in conjunction with getting any pain sorted. Bets wishes
 
Thanks for everyones replies given me and the owners alot of food for thought :D . When he first arrived with me he was overly sensitive about picking his feet up and would cow kick and strike out but he now picks his feet up 99% properly and politely. Before I sold him I tapped his feet out every night - no reaction and brought his foot forward as if it was on the stand - would snatch foot away but would eventually stand still. He is happy to have legs washed,clipped etc.When he came to me with only fronts on but had been in full work and limited turnout and within a couple of days was foot sore on both hinds - was only being fed haylage at the time and was on 8-9 hours turnout on okish grazing. Had him shod behind and the soreness seemed to disappear. As far as I know he is being fed about 10kg of haylage a night with one meal a day of alfa a oil and a build up mix (not sure of quantities) . I contacted the old owner when this issue first came to light and she said the last time he was shod with her ,the farrier had smacked him as he was misbehaving but he had been good to shoe in the past. My gut feeling though is that after a 9 months of being patiently shod there would have been some improvement. He such a wicked little horse in every other way that it would be fab if this problem could be reduced. With regards to going barefoot with - I will hold my hands up I have always had fully shod horses so have very little knowledge of going properly barefoot as opposed to just taking shoes off. Our yard is very gravelly/stony and we have a lot of roadwork - is it possible for his feet to adapt to this? Would this be better to be done in the summer (would be living out 24/7 ) or in the winter (softer ground) ? He has quite mismatched feet although they have improved - front pair one leg has a twist to the inside and the other was originally a very odd shape with what I can only describe as a concave look to the front of the hoof wall and the hinds are quite boxy - would this affect his ability to go barefoot or could it actually help ? Sorry for all the questions but I am getting tired of getting kicked into next week :D
 
I have a horse who was a nightmare to shoe. My OH is a farrier and it caused some amusement at the vets when I requested IV sedation for him, given he was the farrier's horse! However it got the job done. Over time he became easier and now he is no trouble at all.

He was bought as a 2yo and had never been shod. But his breeder had trimmed his feet himself and had made a mess. We reckon he had had a bad experience with his feet before we got him. Oral sedation wasn't enough. Exercise before shoeing helped a lot. Funnily enough we once asked someone else to hold him and he stood well until I appeared on the scene then the usual struggle started.

He went away for schooling for a few weeks and needed shod then. He was no bother at all. The extra work seemed to make him less objectionable.

However he would never ever have tolerated hot shoeing.
 
I didnt mention in my reply but for 2 visits I would be the one holding her hoof whilst my farrier nailed in and as long as she thought i was doing it and not my farrier then she was happy, not perfect but we could esnure we could get atleast 2 nails in to secure the shoe before she wanted to put it down again.

beacuse she trusts me the 2 times of her thinking it was me helped because of the trust she allowed the shoeing to happen realised it didnt hurt and now she trusts my farrier
 
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